Based on what I read at DU, I'm glad I don't have daughters.

[11 Bravo]

Apparently a bunch of us won't vote for Hillary even if she gets the Dem nomination. Fine, she's not my first, second, or third choice either. But I reiterate, I will vote for ANY DEM over any Repug. Why? Two words: Roberts ... Alito. In the next 4-8 years it is probable that 3-4 more SCOTUS appointments may arise. I am not willing, in the name of ideological purity, to risk those appointments being place in the hands of a Republican. But apparently I'm in the minority. I guess all I can do is teach my boys reproductive responsibility, but they are still boys. They will never be forced by judicial fiat to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term.

[Swamp Rat]

1. In the next 4-8 years it is probable the Earth will be on fire.

[Tom Joad]

8. hillary says all options are on the table in regards to iran... but shouldn't we pledge our loyalty

to her?

[Swamp Rat]

11. Pass the butter

[Evergreen Emerald]

15. what would you rather she said?

[11 Bravo]

16. Yup, that's what I've said alright.

Damnit, you've been here for a long time and I know you're smarter than that. Please take that lame shit out of here and respond to what I actually posted.

[sharp_stick]

19. Unbelievable Idiocy n/t

[omega minimo]

10. good thing he's got an

"undisclosed location" to hide in........




:hug: swampy

[Swamp Rat]

18. I'm sure he has more than one "undisclosed location" in which to hide.

:hi: omega minimo :hug:

[omega minimo]

24. perhaps

a wormhole where his heart should be........



:hide:

[MazeRat7]

20. Don't forget the killer comet, super quake, or mega volcano - those _could_ happen too. -nt

[Swamp Rat]

31. Toutatis 4179

It's a planet killer. September 29, 2004 it came within 0.0104 AU (within 4 lunar distances) from Earth. He'll be back next year, November 9, 2008 at 0.0503 AU, a little further away, then back again with a vengeance in 2012.

Most scientific organisations refuse to publish it's orbital path for 2012.

http://echo.jpl.nasa.gov/asteroids/4179_Toutatis/toutatis.html

[JackRiddler]

50. When you say most refuse...

Is there a published route of the orbit at all?

[Swamp Rat]

53. I've looked, but did not find a source I felt was reliable.

Someone here on DU, who is good in math and astrophysics, can certainly crunch the numbers faster than I.

Where's Johannes Kepler? :D

edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit_equation

[Melynn]

52. The Mayan calender says it's all over in 2012

It just might be. It just might be.

[rockymountaindem]

57. What about this?

According to this site it'll be quite farther than in 2004:

http://newton.dm.unipi.it/cgi-bin/neodys/neoibo?objects:Toutatis;main

[Swamp Rat]

76. 0.0463309 AU

That looks promising, but that is a near miss if measured in astrological terms. I hope their figures are correct, and I hope nothing bumps into Toutatis right before it skips past us. Nevertheless, it is not possible to accurately predict where it will go, as it tumbles; it does not have a simple rotational pattern like other near earth objects. It's orbit is thought to be one of the most chaotic too.

http://impact.arc.nasa.gov/news_detail.cfm?ID=151

[MazeRat7]

58. I dont suppose its "fly-by" is something like 12/21/12 -nt

[Prophet 451]

77. Gee, thanks for THOSE nightmares

Where's Bruce Willis when you need him?

[Breeze54]

2. How do you know thier decision is based on her gender?

I won't vote for her in the primary and it has nothing to do with her gender.

[gollygee]

3. That's not what the post said

Did you read it?

[Breeze54]

27. That's my take on it.

[gollygee]

37. Nowhere in that post does it say anyone's voting decision is based

on her gender.

It says that if people are willing to allow Republicans to again win the presidency because they don't like Clinton, regardless of why they don't like her, that Republican will appoint anti-choice supreme court justices.

[KAZ]

72. "That's my take". You're not going to reread it?

[11 Bravo]

7. Ummm. Did you read the post. Her gender has nothing to do with it.

The Supreme Court is what it's all about. And I specified the general election, NOT the primary. But you are just following a long and ignoble DU tradition of ignoring the OP and responding to whatever the fuck you feel lilke talking about.

[omega minimo]

25. the time to prevent Alito and Richards was during THIS administration. that horse left the barn.

are you among those who think the Dems have to WAIT to FINALLY have enough power to actually stand up for the American people.........


Someday............



?



:boring:

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[11 Bravo]

41. The fact that I don't have daughters has nothing to do with HRC's gender.

Check the other responses to your post. Other than that, "fucking loser" seems a bit harsh. Fortunately, my wife and kids DO think that I'm "all that and a bag of (sic) chips, honey", so now we're down to mind over matter, and I don't mind because you don't matter. You are symptomatic of what is wrong with this board. You are either unable to read, or unable to comprehend the OP. You respond with some non sequiter, a few folks go "huh?", a few more chime on in your side, and before you know it the entire post has been hi-jacked and we're discussing something that has nothing to do with the OP. Congrats.

[Breeze54]

46. Your writing skills lack coherence.

[11 Bravo]

49. Wow, that's going to leave a mark!

[toddaa]

12. The OP is referring to a woman's right to control her body

If enough purists withhold their vote next November, then they risk handing the Presidency to a Republican and essentially giving their consent for women becoming chattel. The lower the turnout, the better the chance for a Republican.

[BootinUp]

4. DU opinion lines up with a very small slice

of Democrats, probably 10-15 percent at best. Not to worry, the party will support the nominee with much vigor.

[BlooInBloo]

14. Yup. Compare also with the DU love of Moonbeam McCrazypants....

... They actually think they're gonna win. :rofl: Reality-based. NOT.

[Cameron27]

55. I should really read GP more often,

you always crack me up ... nothing against the guy, but damned that's funny:rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

71. GP = GD?

[Tom Joad]

5. Iraqi women deserve a life also. and now hundreds of thousands don't, partly because of the strong

efforts of clinton to support Bush's IWR.
are Arab women and children and men less worthy of our concern?
she stood by bush then...
should we stand by hillary now?

[emilyg]

48. Before I worry about Iraqi women - I'll worry about my daughter and her rights.

[Tom Joad]

62. of course, over 4,000 dead americans because of this war too.

and they don't have enough funds to build health care centers in the US. because of this stupid, insane war.

[daninthemoon]

6. For me, it's primarily about the war/wars she has supported/is

supporting. Just when I was feeling better about her, she voted for this Iran censure, which is sure to be taken by bushler as a call to arms.

[Roxy66]

9. Anyone here at Du who either votes for anyone other than a Dem or not at all....

should not be here at DU. If you are a true Dem...(This is Democratic Underground...right?)...than you will do anything to prevent another Republican from running this Country. PERIOD!!! If I am off base... than I do not belong here either.

[omega minimo]

21. including impeachment?

"If you are a true Dem...(This is Democratic Underground...right?)...than you will do anything to prevent another Republican from running this Country."



:popcorn:

[Roxy66]

29. As a voter....go ahead and sit it out . We will be sure to thank you later.

[omega minimo]

38. you didn't answer the question

just threw some snark.


that's constructive :eyes:

[daninthemoon]

42. Of course I'll vote for and support her if she gets the nod. Somehow,

I just hope she is getting the message of how badly we need some enourmous changes. She talks the talk at the debates, but then she votes "yea" on this Iran terrorist deal. I'm not sure which way she'll go once in office.

[lastliberalintexas]

43. Yeah, because my vote matters

I guess living in the hellhole known as Texas does have some advantages. I can at least vote for someone for a change, even if I have to write in Segolene Royal.


As for the OP's premise, as much of a "feminazi" as I am, what the hell will reproductive rights matter if we're in WWIII? Besides, we wouldn't have so much to worry about regarding the Court if the Dems had taken a stand over the last couple of years, now would we?

[omega minimo]

13. mind if i ask

what you think that "ideological purity" is?

[BootinUp]

28. Here is one persons definition...

Hope you decide to watch it, he is still the Big Dog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GNpgH6jrUs

[11 Bravo]

36. Not in the least.

Ideological purity was the mindset that we heard in 2000. You rmember, "There's not a dime's worth of difference between the Republicans and the Democrats." It was bullshit, but it landed us with the worst President in my lifetoime.

[omega minimo]

39. so it's just a meaningless bumpersticker phrase to throw around without thinking about?

[superkia]

17. We should focus on nominating the person that benifits us most...

not whether or not people will vote for who the media is telling us. What has happened to the democrats and the democratic process? I see more posts on how we should vote for her if shes the nominee and how you are not welcome here or your not a democrat if you dont vote for her than I see posts stating why she should be the nominee? Is the democratic process even gone on DU?

Here are a few reasons I am voting for Dennis Kucinich and believe he is the best candidate for the people.

He will end this war for money and use political dialogs to keep us out of war.
He has spoken out about the attacks on the constitution by the government.
He is for non profit health care for all.
He stood up and said the war was about oil and NEVER voted for it from the beginning.
He doesn't spit out the word terror or terrorist in every speech to keep us in fear and to boost up the terrorist industrial complex.
He has spoke out and in favor of impeachment of Dick Cheney.
He wants the patriot act repealed.
He is against NAFTA.
He went to the floor asking for an investigation into the hunt oil deal in Iraq.
He answers questions directly, like any PRESIDENTIAL candidate should.

What is it that Clinton is doing that should make me change my mind and vote for her? If someone can make the case, I will switch my vote, I already switched from Obama in the beginning. Help me make the country better.

[11 Bravo]

26. For Christ's sake, please read the OP.

I love DK. Edwards is my first choice, he's my second. But my post is questioning those who won't vote for Hillary in the general election. I'm not talking about the primaries!

[superkia]

33. I made a comment to your OP, if you need help with reading it...

we can trade emails and I can help you with them. No need to reply to me with such an attitude when I did read your post and reply, I do not apologize because I did not reply the way you would have liked me to. I was replying to the first statement in the OP and you didn't say that we couldn't. This is a public board where we all get to share our opinions, if you don't want to openly discuss them I would suggest you create your own private one. I think we are all adults here and I would appreciate it if you acted as one as I didn't attack you, I only responded to your post.

Thank you in advance.

[11 Bravo]

45. Nah, Ive been a teacher for 34 years, so I don't need your help with reading comprehension.

But let me ask you, you claim that you "only responded to my post". OK, my post talked about if HRC was the Dem nominee, I would vote for her over ANY Republican. Your response, as is so often the case, turned to the PRIMARY (ie: you will vote for DK - who I happen to prefer to HRC). But that wasn't responsive to my post. And now you wish to lecture me about reading comprehension. Thanks also for informing me that this is a public board. I've only been here for a little over 5 years, I appreciate the perspective of your 3 month tenure.

[superkia]

47. Your welcome, no problem, the pleasure is mine.

[11 Bravo]

51. Nice non-response.

Here's a thought, dink. Start your own thread.

[superkia]

59. Excellent thought, I will look into that.

[rox63]

22. If HRC is the nominee, I will vote for her

But she's near the bottom of my preferred candidate list for the primary. I realize that this nation can't afford another rethug administration after the damage that * has done.

[dropkickpa]

23. I will vote for her if she's the nom

But I'll hold my nose while doing so. I agree, the SCOTUS appointments have a much longer impact than any 1-2 term prez can have. 25 years of Bush's peeps on the bench is going to have a much further range of damage, and I refuse to let others continue the assault on our rights past the time my child reaches my age.

[Jackpine Radical]

32. If Hillary is nominated, I swear

I will rail, I will scream, I will despair.

Then I will go into that booth and **retch** vote for her.

[southerncrone]

34. First things first.....

we have a primary election. Then, we can argue over if we will be supporting that candidate & why (or why not).

This putting the cart b/4 the horse is a waste of our time. We should certainly be discussing the candidates, but you can never tell what will happen on any given day. It may NOT be Clinton who wins the primary.

We need to be working on getting the voting machines "corrected" instead of speculation over our unknown candidate in the general election. Otherwise, no matter WHO we elect in the primary, they don't stand chance in the gen. election if the voting machines are still rigged.

[11 Bravo]

44. I'm responding to the numerous threads which state that they will not vote for HRC ...

even if she receives the Dem nomination (he said tiredly, and for about the 50th time)

[southerncrone]

61. My point is that is worrying about something that may or may not happen.

Wasted energy & thought.

Old Southern saying: "Don't worry about the mule goin' blind--load the wagon!"
Translation: Deal with the problem at hand, the future as you see it, may not come to pass.

The people who say they won't vote for Hillary, may not have to make that choice, if she does not win the primary.

Granted, many of us think the fix is in, but we hope for a miracle. :D

[musette_sf]

35. i don't think HRC will be the candidate

maybe this should be in the "psychic" thread over in the Astrology Etc. group, but i have thought all along that she will not be the candidate.

i also don't think there will be any progressive third party candidates that i would favor over HRC, that would have a ghost of a chance.

i do not support Senator Clinton's candidacy, and it has nothing to do with her being a "her". i just don't agree with many of her positions.

all of the above being said, if she does end up being the candidate, i will hold my nose and vote for her.

but, you know, several years ago, Senator Clinton was all about pacifying the forced-birthers in the party with her "safe, legal and rare" BS. safe, legal on the Federal basis, subsidized for low-income women, readily available without restrictions, and non-stigmatized is what we need. the "rare" part would take care of itself in a country that truly supported women's equality and access to reproductive health care.

[Matariki]

40. You're not in the minority on this. n/t

[emilyg]

54. No - not in the minority.

[Cameron27]

56. I'm with you,

good post.

[Warren DeMontague]

60. I'm going to support our nominee, whoever he or she is.

I certainly have my preferences, but it's a strong field all around.

[alarimer]

63. Bingo

Although I live in Texas so my vote will not count anyway. I am pretty sure the Repugs will take this state again.

[jgraz]

64. Roe v Wade is gone whenever they want it. And it was DEMOCRATS that let it happen

Sammy Alito. He's the fifth vote they need to overturn Roe. The court is already gone and probably will be for the next 10-15 years. You're going to have to find another way to scare us into voting for Hillary.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

73. Ahhhh. Vote for the shill... or else fear and loathing

will consume the country. You know, and I know, my good man jgraz, that this is how we have landed in the predicament that we are in. Hillary holds no position that I can morally support.

[Kurovski]

65. The fact remains: there are some things that Senator Clinton will protect.

My belief is that you are correct on focusing on that fact.

(C'mon Al, what's the frickken' hold up, here?)

[HCE SuiGeneris]

66. Capitulation sucks ass. n/t

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KAZ]

74. ...Removed

[sjdnb]

68. Well, I have three daughters

and, gender is STILL not a litmus test for me. It is solely based upon core beliefs, qualifications and character - whether male/female, green/purple, beauty/geek. And, hopefully, someday, we will evolve to a place where gender, race, status, etc. are NOT the primary criteria we consider when evaluating anyone for any position.

Hillary voting for Kyl-Lieberman lost her my vote. I can, no longer, trust she will vote her beliefs if she believes it to be politically unwise - whether related to war, abortion, education, or anything else.

I could, perhaps, buy her excuse for the Iraq War vote as well as some, subsequent, questionable votes - but, fool me once shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me. She has, for me, proven herself to be someone who puts politics above everything else - aka someone I can't trust.

sjd

[KAZ]

69. Here here! I wanted to do a "Bravo"....

Anyone who has spent time on this board, and STILL, just like in '00, thinks there is no difference, then I consider you worse than the Pukes. Pukes don't know any better. You do.

Great post 11 B.

[Zookeeper]

70. The flip side is that I worry everytime I hear the word, "draft"

since two out of my three kids are boys. (My daughter has Type 1 diabetes, so it wouldn't be an issue for her, even if they included women.)

[Trajan]

75. Take heart Bravo ....

Clinton will still win .... Just not in DU ....

It is important to note the difference between the pool of voters OUTSIDE of DU versus those INSIDE of DU .... Many here are activists, and 'Goddess bless their hearts', I love each and every one of them for their courage and vision .... BUT: They will not decide the next election .... Those who form the "I will NOT vote for Hillary' contingent here form an even smaller sector of the overall body of voters. They will not carry the day when November comes.

Pragmatism will rule that day, and even those here who constantly rail against her will be hard pressed to carry out their threats, given the alternative, on that cold and dreary day ....

We will WISH to vote for who we think is the absolute BEST choice, but we will, on the whole, vote against the Republican .... The bulk of the Democratic party, and many many independents and moderates, will vote for Hillary, OR Obama, OR Edwards, OR Biden .....

The rants here are loud, and they are spirited, and they are righteous, but pragmatism will rule ....

[Olney Blue]

78. I agree with you- the SCOTUS is a high priority in this election.

[baldguy]

79. This country does not need a better Republican president.

Thats what you get with Hillary.

[OneBlueSky]

80. if Hillary is the nominee, I honestly don't know what I'll do . . .

by voting for her I'll be compromising the very core of my beliefs, and I'm not sure I can do that anymore . . . have to wait and see how it all pans out . . .

my fondest hope is that Al Gore gets into this race and blows her out of the water . . . it's fading, but it's still alive . . .

[BoneDaddy]

81. I love this

whole support Hillary or women lose their reproductive rights nonsense. Talk about coercion thru shame and guilt. What a surprise from the Hil crowd.