The thing that perplexed me this week.

[The Backlash Cometh]

It started with my conversation with the son of the confederacy, combined with reading the article from John Dean regarding right-wing Authoritations. In a nutshell, A R-W Authoritian is anti-equality, and in fact, believes that a few elite should remain dominant in a society. In order to achieve that end, they will cheat to win. They are also mean-spirited and anti-education. They're anti-education because the more education a person receives, the more likely he or she will learn critical thinking skills and critical thinking is the enemy of a group which demands loyalty to their ideological beliefs, even in the face of contradictions and mistakes that might crop up.

So, the thing that perplexed me about him was how incredibly stolid this guy was in his beliefs, and how proud he was of his heritage. But, the South lost. Instead of looking for diplomatic solutions, they went into a war and lost their shirts, and the value of their confederate money. And now, we're repeating their same mistakes. He believes that we must stay in the Middle East in order to control it. But, I asked him, how can we control it forever, if we are slowly bankrupting this country. That's when it occurred to me, that their stubborness lost them the Civil War in America, bankrupting their banks and making confederate money useless. So why the hell are we allowing them to do it again to the rest of us today? As they continue to irritate our allies, our allies our quietly moving to EUROs and we will be defeated without anyone having to fire one bullet.

[ret5hd]

1. Well, all i can say is that when my opponent is using bad tactics...

far be it from me to tell him the error of his ways.

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. I think it needs to stick. I think that the point should be made that

Southern gentlemen are no gentlemen and are not to be trusted because they are inherent liars. And hiding behind the crucifix isn't going to improve their image.

[renie408]

5. The Bush family is from New England and Cheney is from Nebraska.

They aren't gentlemen and they aren't Southerners.

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. It goes back to the right-wing Authoritarian.

Some lead and others follow. The followers are the kind of person that would support an all powerful leader, and one that prefers force to diplomacy. They would love Bush, because Bush is focused on a goal and won't steer off it, no matter how many people tell him it's a mistake. That's the kind of leader they would support. The problem is, of course, that they'll never admit they made a mistake. They'll find some way to blame the failure on someone else. We've got to turn the mirror on them so they can see themselves the way we see them, and have them accept culpability for the last 7 years.

[renie408]

7. Then say that and leave southerners out of it. n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. Republican Southerners are a big part of their support.

I write what I see, and that's what perplexed me this week. It's a strong base that cannot be ignored. There are a lot of subgroups that are Authoritian. I'm just writing about one.

If I called them "gentlemen," it's because the more refined, pillars of the community, really do see themselves that way.

[hang a left]

30. Although I agree partially with your premise...

However, they are insignificant as a voting block IMO. They are just so bass-ackwards, and I think educated peoples can see that. Alone and of themselves they really are not a threat.

We just get pissed off because they are so fucking ignorant. I have family from Louisiana and they are the most vile, racist, and stupid mfers on the planet. Honestly, they say "niger" so much, you want to crawl under the rug. They are so offensive.

Try having a few of the tards over for dinner, just once. You will be scrubbing your home with bleach for days afterwards.

[The Backlash Cometh]

32. I always feel like I fell in a swamp and fought to crawl out after speaking to one.

[Canuckistanian]

9. Nebraska? I thought it was Wyoming

Huge difference, I know.

[CRK7376]

17. Careful now....

not all Southern men are inherent liars....Some of us even take weekly baths and are not married to our kin folks....

[The Backlash Cometh]

20. Are you an Authoritarian?

If not, this doesn't apply to you.


He doesn't talk about Southerners, per se, but here's the thread that will give you a loose understanding of what he means by "Authoritarians."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1877620

[annabanana]

3. And if he is dragging the rest of us down with him?

What then?

[ret5hd]

4. Yeah, that's the one really big flaw in my argument.

[Maribelle]

10. Haven't you've described the Neoconservative agenda?

I don't think there is a direct connection to the failed confederacy. This guy likes grits with eggs, and also likes bagels with cream cheese.

In fact, it is argued that a reason the south lost was because it's political philosophy failed to create a standing army until it was nearly too late. Neoconservatives, on the other hand, want their armies to provide them with power and riches and place them at the top of their agenda.

It is true that the political party taken over by the neoconservatives has also taken over too much of the south. However, these rednecks, that fly their battle flag on the bumpers of their beat-up pickups, are merely pawns. Few of them can even spell the word neoconservative, let alone understand the deep and dark philosophy of its quest for power and riches. And today, as they all scream in support of the Lush pomp on "fake soldiers", they still fail to realize that the battle flag they fly represents a group that tried to destroy the United States of America in a bloody war that never should have taken place.

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. These rednecks are more complicated than what you describe.

Some of them, by outward appearance, are everything you say, because they have to fit that all important uniform in order to be recognized and belong. The chewing tobaccoo and the confederate flags, for example, are minimum requirements. The tattoos appear to be a new thing, according to the guy I spoke to.

But some actually have college degrees, though it might be in Construction Management. Here in the South east, they have landscaping businesses, land clearing businesses, construction businesses. It all revolves around real estate. The guy I spoke to was working to take over his daddy's business. And they are far more sophisticated than you realize. He told me how they had to badger a city with a legal lawsuit to break their building ordinances. The local employee, finally left.

This guy was also an ex-marine. When we talked about the bloggers in Iraq, he at first was lost for words, but you know now that Rush Limbaugh has pegged the, "phony soldier" tag, that it's a matter of time before it starts spreading, if we don't stop it.

So, in the end, if you see a similiarity between neo-cons and southern rednecks, then you found the magnetic attraction between the two. John's Dean's article suggests that there are many factions that fit the category of "Authoritian." Perhaps it is their way of being, which has brought them together, politically.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

12. I think Confederate wannabes are useful tools for the neocons, as are

any macho wannabes.

Back during Newt Gingrich's heyday, there was an article in the Atlantic about Newt's Congress as "the Southern slave owners' revenge," but today's Bush administration is almost all holdovers from the Reagan days. They're the ones calling the shots, and the good ole boys with their Confederate flags are nothing more than useful idiots.

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. Yes, there are confederate grunts that can be turned into useful idiots,

but if you believe that's all they are, you'll ignore the top level of Southerners. They're politicians, they're owners of contruction companies, they're lawyers, they're large land owners, they're televangelicals with large congregations, they serve on boards for large colleges...

That's why I call them Southern gentlemen. Don't ignore them, because they're the ones who can incite the grunts with the usual racial spewing they do to tighten the ranks. They're the ones the grunts look up to, and the ones that can do no wrong in their eyes. Authoritarians include followers, as well as leaders.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. Studs Terkel's book on race talks about that,

about the former Klansman who used to get encouraging phone calls from local elites who would then refuse to speak to him in public.

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. That is the scary part. Everybody has a role to play, and if the grunts

accept their role as pawns, it means that you'll never be able to convince them through reasoning. I suspect that they play along, because they assume the upper echeleons will protect them if they get in trouble with the law. Just the way the drug cartel protects their grunts.

[BrklynLib at work]

14. Those kind of people are the exact ones that comprise most of prez shit-for-brains' "base".

The rich Neo-cons are in it fo the money...self-enrichment. The ones you are describing appear to be just too dumb to know that they are ruining themselves as well. They are just following blindly like lemmings...they are like the scorpion in the tale of the tortoise and the scorpion. They seem to be unable to avoid self-destruction...it is part of who they are. Very sad..beyond reason and reality.

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. I think there is truth that the Southern ones don't have a clue how much

they've been used by the Neo-cons and the oil groupies in Washington.

My only comment on the neo-cons, is that they are pro-Israeli, in their policies. It wasn't really about the money, at first. I think Abramoff is my first indoctrination that money, and large amounts of it, was needed to buy our politicians and setting policy. I just want to know how many neo-cons were actually tampering with things like Wall Street to make up their palm greassing budget?

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Backlash Cometh]

27. What strange bedfellows.

Bushes were on the Nazi side during WWII, but now are making money doing things that would please the Israelis.

[BrklynLib at work]

29. Macchiavellian. The ends justify the means. The Israelis, and Israel, for that matter, are simply

tools these people use to inflame passions in others, and get them to accede to their wishes. If they came right out and said I want you to do this to make me powerful and rich, they would not do it..but if they throw in the excuse of religious/ethnic fervor, it gets them every time.

How many millions of people have died historically, fighting over whose god is stronger...and at the same time, there were always those who were getting rich and powerful thru the deaths of others.

[The Backlash Cometh]

33. I'm beginning to see it now.

[Tsiyu]

15. You are so right

And this is not specifically about ALL "Southerners." It is about the elitest attitudes of SOME white males and females.

I am currently researching the history of the University of the South (Sewanee) for a book I am writing. The day Beauregard fired on Ft. Sumter, some very angry folks up here burned down the home of founder Bishop Leonidas Polk, proving not all Southerners wanted this war. He was one of those elitist pigs who "found religion" during the evangelical frenzy sweeping America a few years prior to the war. (Similarities anyone?)

His goal for the University can be summed up in this excerpt from an address written to drum up support in 1858:

"For the South, the proper vacation for an University is the winter, that season when our planters and merchants and professional men are surrounded by their families on their homesteads, when the cheerful Christmas fire is burning on the hearth, and mothers and sisters and servants can receive the returning student to his home...when he can engage in the sports which make him a true Southern man, hunting, shooting, riding, when he can mingle freely with the slaves who are in the future to be placed under his management and control."

Over and over, when reading the words of the Founders of the University, I am struck by their complete and total lack of concern for anyone but the Southern elite. Only wealthy white males make decisions and women and slaves "serve" those men. And their own JeebusGawd is alright with this because "Greeks and Hebrews and Romans also had slaves - IT'S IN THE BOBBLE!!!!!"

Very little has changed about the elitist white male attitude at Sewanee. Oh, they have some students and staff of other races now, but from their residents - who are DA's, cops, the Vice Chancellor - there remains a hatred (in my experience and opinion) against the poor and anyone of color. They still have their slaves, working for chump change.

There are liberals on campus, but it's the only place around here i can drive and see W stickers and Fred Thompson stickers. On a mountain of Democrats (voted for Gore and Kerry) Sewanee remains an oasis of Republican hatred.

You are so right that this attitude is killing us.

All they are doing is taking food out of the mouths of our children to wage war so they can feel powerful and become wealthy.

And their Gawd is just fine with that.

By the way, Polk died in Georgia fightin' for his beloved slaveholding status, and Sewanee adores him and his hatred for humanity to this day....so sad.

[MedleyMisty]

18. Funny, I live in the South and I'm the exact opposite of an authoritarian

Authoritarians come from everywhere. There were quite a few in Germany in the 30s and 40s, for instance. The American South is not the only place that crazy humans come from, and it's not anything in the land or air or whatever here that turns them into authoritarians. It's a global human problem with the whole species, so why are you singling out people from a specific region?

I think it's pretty hypocritical when people go, "I ain't all bigoted and ignorant like all them damn Southerners."

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. Read Dean's three part article.

He defined the term loosely. I'm the one who took it a step further and identified Southerner asjust one group of people that share the qualities. The other two identified in this thread are neo-cons and oil people.

Here's the link to Dean's articles:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1877620

[youthere]

22. Only one thing has perplexed you this week? How do you do it?

I've had one thing perplex me every three or four hours for the last six years.

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. I prioritize

:rofl:

[ljm2002]

25. I've been think about this also...

...and I think these two sentences sum up perfectly what has happened in our body politic:

"A R-W Authoritian is anti-equality, and in fact, believes that a few elite should remain dominant in a society. In order to achieve that end, they will cheat to win."

That is why they lie and distort and place their loyal followers at every level of government, because they really, truly believe that the elite deserves to rule and the rest of us need to be ruled. It's why there is no reasoning with them. And the failure to understand their real agenda, is why we are so ineffective against them.

While I think the discussion of Southerners and their role in this is interesting and has merit, it tends to derail the discussion because of the tendency to make it about that, rather than about the core issue of the elitist agenda, which is no longer limited to one region, if indeed it ever was.

JMHO.

[The Backlash Cometh]

28. Several comments:

First, that quote you plucked out was a very close paraphrasing of John Dean's conclusions. Here is the link that will take you to the articles:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1877620

Second, yes, you can't reason with them. There is only one way to beat them and that's catch them when they cheat, and hold their feet to the fire with legal action. Easier said than down, btw. Because it requires civil litigation and none of us has the money to do it. That's why their networks are running amok.

Third, I picked Southerners because I spoke to one the day before I read Dean's article and it all came together for me. I realized that there really is no point but to listen to them, and maybe plug in a word or two to point out their hypocrisy, but to sit and reason with them would be a waste of everyone's time. However, it's important to identify all the Authoritiarian groups. Quite frankly, I think we have such a group in Wall Street too.

[BrklynLib at work]

31. I think that is where they got started. Isn't that the source of the group that tried to overthrow

FDR?
Anyone below that level is just a worker bee. They are working in the dogs of the machine, and truly have no idea why. It is those Wall Street entrepeneurs and corporate big-wigs that are calling all the shots. Ask Cheney and Rumsfeld...Halliburton, Enron, etc etc etc

Quite frankly, I think we have such a group in Wall Street too.

[The Backlash Cometh]

34. It would make the most sense, if the usual method of hunting down the culprits, is to

follow the money.

[BrklynLib at work]

36. Yep. It is probably one of those eternal truths....see who profits and you will find the source of

the problems.

[ljm2002]

35. Yes it's been coming together for me over the last few months...

...I knew we were dealing with intransigence, lying, corruption etc. But what has come together for me is the understanding of their real agenda, and some understanding of the thought processes involved. Their agenda, by the way, is not theocracy, although they'll use that agenda to further their own; and they will even tolerate a theocracy, if it exists in the service of the elitist agenda.

They believe that the larger population is the rabble. They are deathly afraid of a populist movement, it's why they attack the left at every turn, and it's why they freeze out their own populists like Patrick Buchanan.

They were consolidating their power in this country when Bush came into office. He ratcheted things up after 9/11, and has overseen a huge shift of money and power to the elites, and a huge increase in authoritarian laws and thinking.

In a way, it is lucky for us that Bush just had to go into Iraq. Because, had he been at all cautious, had he been realistic, had he stuck to the arguably justified action in Afghanistan, his ability to further the authoritarian agenda would have been unstoppable.

Bush's Blunder has cost us all. But it may have cost the authoritarian elite the most, because it weakened their standing when nothing else could.

Here's hoping something good will come of the disaster that is Iraq. It hardly makes up for the hundreds of thousands dead, and the millions displaced, and the destruction of a nation. The only thing that might ameliorate all of that, in a historical sense, is the utter, utter destruction of the authoritarian right wing in this country, and the cessation of imperialistic, aggressive and criminal wars of choice started by the USA.

Yeah, I know. Fat chance.

Anyway: thanks for the post, it is an interesting and thought-provoking topic.