DUers That Support the Brave Men and Women of Our Military, Check In!!!

[Zandor]

Your courage and service to our country is something I will always be grateful for.

No flamefest, please. This thread if for those who would like to thank those that serve our country in a way that makes us proud!

On edit: We want you home soon!

[Junkdrawer]

1. Support the Troops - Bring Them Home.. n/t

[midlife_mo_Jo]

79. Count me in!

[Fly by night]

116. Shout this out every time you see an Army/National Guard recruitment ad in your local movie houses.

I did that in Nashville and the audience applauded.

The theater chain has now stopped running those obscene ads (for some reason...).

[liberalsoldier5]

216. And they're obscene how....?

And I doubt the theatre stopped running them (if they even really did) because you shouted your ass off during a movie. Unless you're anti-military all together, the ads are fine.

[Fly by night]

239. If you've seen them, you would know how over the top they are.

Besides, I didn't suggest that my comments were the reason the ads were dropped, although I did appreciate about 80% of the people present clapping their approval. Perhaps the ads were having no effect in stemming the continuing decline in enlistments that even a continuous decline in enlistment standards has not reversed (as pointed out by both General Pace and the Marine Corps second-in-command (whose name I can't remember) just this week in the news).

I am certainly not anti-military -- that is why I want to bring our troops home. I live very near Ft. Campbell and we all (on and off the base) were angered by Rush Limp-dick's comments about "phony soldiers." After all, two of the 82nd Airborne authors of the recent New York Times op-ed piece against the Iraq war are already dead. They are my neighbors, and I am glad that they spoke up. It demonstrates the admirable bravery of our soldiers, to speak truth to the illegitimate (and unelected) power that has seized the reins of our government.

In case you haven't seen them yet, I would recommend two movies for you: "No End in Sight" and "In the Valley of Elah". If you've seen either or both, let me know your impressions. I'd also like your impressions of the recent report that fewer than half of the votes cast by U.S. soldiers overseas went uncounted in 2006.

Edit to add: Welcome to DU.

[demnan]

2. I support the troops

by working with Veterans for Peace to end this war.

[Zandor]

8. I respect that

They have been placed into an ill-advised conflict, no fault of thier own.

[Grateful for Hope]

244. Good on ya, demnan

That is exactly the way our troops should be supported.

[Marrah_G]

3. Everyday.

I don't know any personally who want to be there. I rightly blame W and his cronies for this mess and NOT our men and women who are just doing their jobs. If our military were to start making political decisions it would be a v ery slippery slope. There is good reason for having civilian control of the military.

Bring them home and give them the care they need, fully, quickly and free of charge.

[Junkdrawer]

10. Morale is past the breaking point...and THAT'S what ended Vietnam....

Noam Chomsky said this a while back about Vietnam:

...

What happened was, the army started falling apart. One of the reasons that the army was withdrawn was because the top military wanted it out of there. They were afraid they were not going to have an army anymore. Soldiers were fragging officers. The whole thing was falling apart. They were on drugs.

...

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/15/1448219&mode=thread&tid=25

[liberalsoldier5]

218. Morale is actually quite high

-sorry to disappoint you. Just ask any service men or women about morale. I know MANY. Trust me, morale is high.

[Junkdrawer]

222. 7% agree with you...

GIs' morale dips as Iraq war drags on

...

"The only person I know who believed Iraq was improving was killed by a sniper in May," the blogger, identified only as Alex from Frisco, Texas, said in a separate e-mail.

The Army's suicide rate is at its highest in 23 years: 17.3 per 100,000 troops, compared with 12.4 per 100,000 in 2003, the first year of the war. Of the 99 suicides last year, 27 occurred in Iraq.

The latest in a series of mental health surveys of troops in Iraq, released in May, says 45% of the 1,320 soldiers interviewed ranked morale in their unit as low or very low. Seven percent ranked it high or very high.

...

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-morale25aug25,1,7614004.story?page=1&ctrack=5&cset=true&coll=la-news-a_section

[Junkdrawer]

220. Self-Delete

[babylonsister]

4. Support the troops - take care of them when they're injured!

:mad:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1928132&mesg_id=1928132

[Zandor]

5. Agreed! n/t

[leftynyc]

6. Have always supported the troops

Want to see them home as soon as possible.

[sam sarrha]

7. i thank you and i am really REALLY REALLY sorry and i am ashamed of our leadership failing you all

the pResident is a wet brain alcoholic moran and a psychopath, his flying monkeys are thoughtless mentally ill ego-centric Corpor-fascists.. forgive us for not being in the streets and shutting down the Traitors to this nation and you, that started this war for profit

[annabanana]

9. Support the Troops - Don't kill them

in a greedy oil grabbing orgy..

[cali]

11. Here's how I see the men and women of the military;

just as people. They're no braver or finer than the public at large. They're mostly young, many of them were at loose ends or wanted funds for college and that's why they joined. Others had a youthful and romantic view of serving the country. Still others wanted an adventure. This business about how they're all heroes and the best of the best, is simply rhetoric.

They're just people. Most of them young, being used as instruments of aggression.

And they're being in Iraq and being at the disposal of the little madman in the WH, isn't making us safer.

[Marrah_G]

23. Thank you!!!!

[cali]

29. You're welcome!

Glad to see someone else sees it that way.

[YOY]

87. I think "Zandor" created this as a rebuttal to your post

As if your post was somehow "anti-troop". He seems to take a lot of liberties interpreting other peoples' words.

[YOY]

91. Who the f*** here doesn't "support the troops"?

Who the f*** here thinks they should come home in body bags and not safe and sound to their loved ones?

You'd be hardpressed or twisting other peoples' words to find them.

Hollow jingoistic BS.

[Marrah_G]

92. You assume alot

Calling out another poster on what you assume he thinks or what you assume his motives are is just plain wrong.

[YOY]

94. That poster has been attacking others based on his assumptions

I'm calling it how I see it.

[Marrah_G]

141. I guess we just see it differently n/t

[bigtree]

112. where did you read that?

[YOY]

115. Here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1928588

[bigtree]

123. I don't see the sentiment you attributed to Zandor in that post

I see it now. Thanks.

It's a shame, both have valid points.

[Marrah_G]

142. I think they have very similar views

[Hell Hath No Fury]

128. He supports Nancy too!

:eyes:

"Zandor's" a regular cheerleader, for Nancy, for the troops, for military intervention in Iran....

[YOY]

132. I hear there's a party for that

Of course we're a "big tent".

Gigantic aparently...

[Hell Hath No Fury]

171. HUGE!

;)

[YOY]

234. You mean "HUGH!1!1!"

;-)

[Mrs. Overall]

133. It's been interesting to me to watch this new DUer get so many threads nominated for the

greatest page. (Although I am under 1000 posts, I've been here for nearly 5 years, just don't post frequently).

Yes, interesting, too, to see so many DUers respond to the cheer leading like a good crowd should.

I'm usually not this distrustful by nature, but this one has me wondering....

[bigtree]

136. should we NOT express our support for the troops if we wish to

just to avoid being called a 'cheerleader' by you and others?

[Mrs. Overall]

144. Of course not. And I am talking about cheer leading threads in general, not

this specific one.

I just don't want to feel manipulated into expressing support for anything.

I come from a family heavily involved in the military (actually since the Revolutionary War) and recently had a nephew in Iraq. Of course I support the troops, though I do not support the war.

Yep, I was just manipulated right here.

[bigtree]

149. What compelled you to respond? It's not like there's a tally of those who didn't bother

It's not as if there's ANYONE saying that a refusal to chime in on this thread characterizes you any more than your refusal to chime in on any other threads.

[Mrs. Overall]

154. I always read and usually respond in some way to "support the troops" threads

because I have felt that there has been something amiss with this slogan since repubs started putting the little yellow ribbons on their pickups as a sly way to say "I support my leader, President Bush and his decision to attack Iraq because Saddam, Osama, and all Muslims are bad."

Upon hearing stories from soldiers returning from Iraq, especially my own nephew who was so distraught he shot himself (not fatally) to avoid going back, I call bullshit on simplistic slogans that cover deeper agendas.

I am simply distrustful of this poster, that's all. And perhaps I'm totally wrong. Only time and the DU graveyard will reveal the answer.

[bigtree]

161. We can address his other views in other threads.

I don't believe that right-wingers, warmongers and republicans have a lock on the language. Everyone is free to hold their own interpretation of what those words mean to them. Perhaps you should ask the op what he feels that 'support' entails.

[againes654]

181. I have read several of his posts the last few days/weeks

IMO, support to Zandor is unconditional love and admiration, and those of us that question any part of what he "supports" are "stupid" to quote his SCOTUS thread.

[ronnie624]

260. You are quite peceptive, paxmusa.

The "support the troops" memes, disgust me to no end.

My youngest brother has been in and out of both Iraq and Afghanistan repeatedly, from the beginning. As an officer, working to implement the military policies of the Bush Administration, he has traveled extensively and seen many things that have changed his personality profoundly.

And make no mistake, he regards with considerable scorn, the sort of "support" offered by the OP and others.

Fortunately, he will be retiring very soon.

[Moochy]

148. It's a campaign of sunshine, roses, unicorns and happyfaces

brought to you by Zandor the Uplifting!

[Richard Steele]

191. Very well put. nm

[ThomCat]

236. LOL!

:rofl:

Well said. :)

[here_is_to_hope]

153. Me too...amazing... n/t

[Mrs. Overall]

165. I swear, Zandor's been getting more fawning attention than Will Pitt!

Just Joking!!!

[renie408]

201. I think it's fucking creepy since he is normally barely shy of posting a GOP talking point.

I bet he and any of his buddies that are reading this are laughing their asses off.

[Marrah_G]

145. OMG support for the Dem speaker of the house on a Dem message board

SHOCKING!!!!!!!!!!!

[renie408]

203. And attacking Iran and the war in Iraq.

Those don't seem like Dem positions to me. Oh, and that thing about religious people being all loving towards gays. I live smack in the middle of the bible belt and that is a new one on me.

[uppityperson]

166. and bombing Iran

Zandor is my new buddy.

[Zandor]

130. Check the times n/t

[bigtree]

134. So, Cali's post was in RESPONSE to your own.

and your responses to her were made AFTER this thread was already posted.

Was the 'no flamefest' request the only edit? I think all of the criticism of your expression here is bunk. If you don't want to participate in a thread it doesn't say anything more than you didn't want to respond. You made an expression of support and asked others to chime in with their own. I think that's a perfectly natural and understandable thing to do here. I don't think that a couple of threads thanking our military for their service out of the countless repetitious threads on so many inane topics is at all unseemly. I take your expression as offered. We can debate the rest of your views elsewhere. Your sentiments are right on.

[Zandor]

140. Thank you

For the record, my only edit was about bringing them home soon. The 'no flamefest please' was in from the start.

[Mrs. Overall]

124. I agree with you. I am also not sure of the true intent of this thread (Zandor's).

Sorry to sound judgmental, but Zandor's post reminds me of forced votes in the House or Senate where legislators are forced to vote a simple yes or no without exploration of the subtleties of the matter.

Support is much more than just a f***ing yellow ribbon on the back of an SUV or a post where I exclaim my gratitude in caps with a bunch of smilies and American flags.

[Name removed]

131. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

232. many of us are in agreement. It is odd to see this thread develop as it has. nt

[democrank]

150. ~PEACE~

I know five Iraq War soldiers. One lost his hands and his stomach for killing. One joined because he "wanted the family" he "never had." Two joined because they wanted to avenge 9/11. And the fifth joined "to get away." Members of the military are as varied as their reasons for joining.

[liberalsoldier5]

219. 100% Disagree.

They ARE among our nation's bravest. They ARE heroes, just like MLK and Neil Armstrong. It's not just rhetoric. That's pure anti-military BS.

[Zywiec]

12. Thanks! n/t

[Zandor]

13. Quite Welcome! n/t

[Buzz Clik]

14. Be safe. Do your jobs well.

Know that the support for you at home is universal, despite what the Republicans tell you.

[Zandor]

15. Exactly! n/t

[Buzz Clik]

20. Great thread, Zandor.

... in a string of many good threads.

[Zandor]

27. Apprecuated, friend

This one is for our military men and women!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

16. "Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy " Kissinger

I support the troops in not wanting them to be in the control of monsters like Kissinger, whose words are probably secretly echoed by this sociopath administration.

[Junkdrawer]

18. Amen. n/t

[Zandor]

19. Seconded. n/t

[ThomCat]

160. Absolutely.

And it's sickening that the GOP has purged the generals who where not "yes-men." So now our soldiers are being thrown away by officers who apparently agree with Kissinger.

[Zandor]

17. Kick!

[Renew Deal]

21. You can never thank our soldiers enough

for their sacrifice, commitment, and bravery. :patriot:

[Zandor]

22. Amen!

[midnight]

24. Bless them all, but bring them home now.

[zabet]

25. I support our troops

by donating to our local VFW.
The troops are to be honored and supported for doing
their jobs. The one who should be condemned for this
war is dumbya, he initiated it, and lied about it to
get it. The blame starts with him.

Stop making new veterans until you start taking better
care of the ones we already have George.
:patriot:

[Zandor]

49. Great post!!!!

Thanks!

[murray hill farm]

26. Yes...support the troups.

Bring them home NOW!

[Renew Deal]

108. The best way to support the troops

Is to bring them home.

[murray hill farm]

248. Yes!

Bring them home NOW!

[OzarkDem]

28. Support them - Bring them Home

Don't make them die for illegal and unnecessary causes.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. Only in the sense that they should be withdrawn from an impossible and

morally hazardous situation and taken care of when injured.

I do NOT support their mission. I never have.

I also support better job opportunities for blue collar youth so that we can get rid of the "poverty draft."

[Richard Steele]

31. Support the troops- stop killing them for Corporate Profits! nm

[Massasauga]

32. Unconditionally! It should not have to be said.

We support the troops because they are our brothers, sisters, nephews and nieces.

They are our family, and we will NEVER turn our backs on them.

[Zandor]

34. Indeed!

[cali]

36. I don't support them unconditionally.

Some troops have engaged in horrific activities. Why should I support them.

[Massasauga]

42. Those who commit crimes no longer represent this country. They are criminals and nothing more.

I understand your point, but I the distinction is easy for me.

[ThomCat]

73. Unfortunately, they do represent our country.

They're behavior reflects upon our country. The behavior of their superiors, hiding and condoning attrocities, reflects upon our country.

We need to support the troops, because they represent us. But we also need to hold them accountable, because they represent us.

[Bill McBlueState]

126. that's the No True Scotsman fallacy

to paraphrase...

you: "I support the troops"

cali: "Some troops aren't worthy of support"

you: "Well, they aren't really troops"

How can it have any meaning to "support the troops" if you get to decide which ones you want to support?

[ThomCat]

137. It's the same fallacy

of Christians who deny the violence done in the name of their relgion.

Violence committed by professed christians, in the name of their christianity, because of their religion convictions, but "they're not real christians" so Christianity is not responsible.

That means, by definition, only saints are real christians. And apparently, the same is true of soldiers.

[Massasauga]

143. Alright, alright: "I support the troops unconditionally, with a few exceptions."

:evilgrin:

[BlooInBloo]

155. Nothing quite compares to DUer intellect.

[Bluebear]

37. Nice touch.

:eyes:

[Massasauga]

44. Thanks!

Nice smiley. Vocabulary replacement? They leave a lot of room for interpretation...

[ThatsMyBarack]

64. Welcome to DU, Massasauga!

:hi: :patriot:

[Massasauga]

101. thanks!

[ThomCat]

96. If you support anyone "unconditionally"

then you're supporting the bad as well as the good. You're supporting the slaughters and the torture as well as everything good they might be doing.

Do you really want to unconditionally support everything our military does?

[Massasauga]

103. I've kinda explained this already, but I understand what you're saying.

I support the soldiers who do their jobs. I do not support those who engage in criminal activities.

[CRK7376]

33. Thanks!

We want to come home too. Fortunately I am home now and not due to leave again anytime soon...so I hope. My hat's off to all the others still deployed and away from family and friends...

[Zandor]

35. Thank you!

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

38. Checking in!!! I'm sorry you're being used as cannon fodder for rich mens' greed.

;(

[AlCzervik]

39. support by taking care of them and by not sending them to iran and don't ask

for something not to be a flamefest. My nephew has done 3 tours, if you people support war i suggest the put some skin the game.

[Zandor]

45. Thank your nephew for me

He is in my prayers.

[AlCzervik]

95. he doesn't want to be thanked, i guess you don't know anyone who serves

because thats one of the things i hear, please don't thank me for doing my job.

[leftynyc]

238. Maybe your nephew feels that way but

when I've thanked soldiers I have met, they have thanked me for my support even when we've chatted and I'm firm in my position on their mission being a mistake.

[Marrah_G]

57. No one here supports the war

And many of us who love and support the troops do indeed have skin in the game.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

249. No one? That's, um, debatable.

The fine DU art of "saying without saying" is alive and well.

[mmonk]

40. I have extended family who have been serving these

multiple deployments. I suggest to people if they really want to support those over there, to send care packages of everyday type items to someone serving.

[Zandor]

43. Great suggestion!

[Massasauga]

51. Great idea. See USO link below:

I've done this in the past, but it's been a while:

https://www.uso.org/whatwedo/specialprograms/operationusocarepackage/">


Click the picture, and donate a package!

[Bluebear]

41. "No flamefest, please." - only those typing whilst humming "God Bless the USA" need apply!

:)

[Massasauga]

46. God bless you, Bluebear.

Get some coffee and some breakfast.

[lisainmilo]

47. Thank You!

Thank You for your courage and bravery.

[Zandor]

50. Amen

[La Lioness Priyanka]

48. i support them as i support almost anyone who is downtrodden.

[Zandor]

52. Thanks for hitting the Greatest Page DUers!

n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

53. Support the Troops! Bring them home. Discharge them and give them useful jobs.

[BlackVelvet04]

54. I really don't know what

"support the troops" means. Do I have a yellow ribbon on my car? No.
Do I wish them well? Yes Do I think they are all heroes and thusly deserving of my undying respect? No Do I want them home? Yes

[liberalsoldier5]

224. .....

:eyes:

[BlackVelvet04]

235. Oh, bite me......

:-)

[Bluebear]

237. :)

[Enrique]

55. loyalty check!

[KG]

88. can I see your papers, comrade?

:hi:

[Moochy]

156. Careful where you click citizen!

Loose Clicks Sink Ships!

[ThomCat]

56. Are you looking for loyalty oaths too?

Is there some patriotic display you expect everyone to participate in?

:shrug:

[Bluebear]

63. I found some great animated GIFs, you can all borrow these for your posts!

I'm also playing my "Courtesy of the red White and Blue" by Toby keith mp3!

[ThomCat]

65. Awesome! We should all put one of those in our Sig!

Yes, we all need to stand up and shout our patriotism! Anyone who doesn't is Unamerican!

:sarcasm:

[liberalsoldier5]

225. I love it!

:patriot:

[Me.]

58. Of Course DU Supports The Troops

So why imply otherwise with the no flamefest statement? Who we don't support is an admin who views them as 'collateral', the military part of 'the little people', along with creeps like LIEberman and his fellow republicons..

[Zandor]

59. "Of Course DU Supports The Troops"

Not unanimously. Read the thread. Cali's too.

[Me.]

69. Not Unconditionally

Means to me that there are acts which are unsupportable, Abu Grahib comes to mind.

[ThomCat]

70. No, I think we just don't "support the troops" the same way you do.

You're not really looking for who supports the truth. You're just demanding vulgar displays of conformity.

[Zandor]

71. No. Gratitude. n/t

[ThomCat]

76. And how obvious a display of ass-kissing do you require?

And why should anyone care whether you think they're supporting the troops or not?

[bigtree]

139. I appreciate it. My advocacy and activism against Bush's militarism stems from that support

I do that deliberately so that I never allow myself to turn away from their sacrifices as I press the administration to end their reckless militarism.

I care to see these expressions and I appreciate them.

[Bluebear]

72. By the end of the day, some other board will have some "They only recommended this 9 times" whine.

"Yet, the posts that bash the troops get pushed up to the front page! Pathetic!!!!1111"

[ThomCat]

80. True, but do we really care what they think?

When most people post, we're not thinking "I should word this in a way that they'll approve of on that other site." :P

[Bluebear]

84. Not personally

Support the trolls! :rofl:

[AlCzervik]

104. Afuckingmen!

[Kajsa]

259. Hi ThomCat,

I didn't see it that way, especially when I posted here.

To me, I saw a thread showing support for our troops.

A knew a young man who was one of the first casualties
in this insane war. My brother is a veteran of the Vietnam
war who fortunately made it home.

They and their brothers/ sisters are who I had in mind when
I posted here.

:hi:

PS- I oppose this war just as I opposed the war in Vietnam.

The difference is, our soldiers were spit on
when they came home from Vietnam.

[cali]

74. bullshit. What a surprise.

I support the troops in that they're humans being brutally misused. I support them by wanting them to return home, sound in body, mind and spirit, unlike YOU who's willingness to let them continue dying and suffering in Iraq is the real show of non-support.

[Bluebear]

75. Here, sprinkle some of these around.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1928347&mesg_id=1929271

You know, to support them.

[againes654]

98. And he has shown some support of a war with Iran

[Zandor]

99. This thread is for the troops

I'd rather not engage you or your comments here.

[ThomCat]

105. No, this thread is for you to anounce that you're more patriotic

than other people, and for you to demand that everyone else act like you.

It's kind of pathetic, really.

[bigtree]

111. where did you read all of that?

[AlCzervik]

114. jingoism, it's an ugly thing.

:thumbsup:

[H2O Man]

151. But-but-but-but-

there's that Martin picture. It's convincing, isn't it, ThomCat? What if the message were wrapped in a flag, or a Gandhi t-shirt?

[bigtree]

157. I don't think it's fair to associate an avatar with every post

I think his simple expression speaks for itself, without the need for any deep interpretation (suppositions) of motives.

[H2O Man]

170. Then don't.

I wouldn't ask you to.

Bush laid flowers on King's grave. You might think that's fine. I think otherwise.

[bigtree]

172. I really don't see the comparison with the poster and Bush

Maybe you can enlighten me on that. I haven't taken the time to read through any other of his threads other than this one.

I think your insinuation that I might approve of Bush laying flowers on King's grave *is amazingly presumptuous and offensive. I don't believe I have ever associated you with anything so vile.

[H2O Man]

176. Oh, well.

I find people trying to use King's image when they are advocating war to be offensive and vile -- way more so than flowers. To each his own, I suppose.

[Marrah_G]

183. He was NOT advocating for war

[H2O Man]

189. Respectfully disagree.

Perhaps you have read different threads and posts than I have. Perhaps we interpret them differently.

[Marrah_G]

200. I feel much like he does and I certainly don't avocate the war.

Perhaps supporting the troops means something different when you have a loved one there, who you know would rather be home holding his newborn son for the first time.

I should probably stop reading this thread because it's something that I look at from an already emotional view.

[H2O Man]

264. Perhaps

reading his other threads and responses on threads might give you a context that would help in understanding my response.

[Marrah_G]

266. I have read them and I still don't see him as advocating the war.

I guess we are just reading things from very different angles.

[bigtree]

185. I don't think the op "advocates war"

any more than any enlistment is advocating war.

Is there a thread by Zandor that I'm not aware of which advocates war? For someone who insists on being so precise with words, I'd expect more objectivity than claiming that the expression in the op 'advocates war'

the op:

DUers That Support the Brave Men and Women of Our Military, Check In!!!

Your courage and service to our country is something I will always be grateful for.

No flamefest, please. This thread if for those who would like to thank those that serve our country in a way that makes us proud!

On edit: We want you home soon!

:shrug:


Martin supported the troops, even as he advocated against their militarism:

". . . we force young black men and young white men to fight and kill in brutal solidarity. Yet when they come back home that can’t hardly live on the same block together."


At this point I should make it clear that while I have tried in these last few minutes to give a voice to the voiceless on Vietnam and to understand the arguments of those who are called enemy, I am as deeply concerned about our troops there as anything else. For it occurs to me that what we are submitting them to in Vietnam is not simply the brutalizing process that goes on in any war where armies face each other and seek to destroy. We are adding cynicism to the process of death, for they must know after a short period there that none of the things we claim to be fighting fro are really involved. Before long they must know that their government has sent them into a struggle among Vietnamese, and the more sophisticated surely realize that we are on the side of the wealthy and secure while we create a hell for the poor.

http://www.oilempire.us/mlk.html

[H2O Man]

190. I did not say

that this OP advocated war. I'm confident that you know exactly what I am referring to.

[bigtree]

193. if I did I wouldn't ask

Where does the poster 'advocate war'? I'm interested to see where the animosity originates from.

[ThomCat]

158. Oh Yes!

Absolutely. MLK would loved the idea of unconditionally supporting troops. No military force has ever acted against the people they're supposed to protect. No military force has ever committed attrocities. And of course the military treats everyone within the military with equality and respect.

The military is a saintly institution. Definitely, he would have seen so many reasons to give unqualified, unconditional support to the military. :P

Yes, I think we need to see this stuff wrapped in the flag next. Maybe that will help.

[Bluebear]

233. Added bonus: Every "Thank you!" that the OP adds builds his post count!

Both he AND the troops win!

[Enrique]

162. this thread will help the troops enormously

over there driving the exploding streets of Baghdad, they can take heart in this DU thread.

[bigtree]

167. I would hope they were able at some point to read our expressions of support

alongside of our opposition to their deployment.

[Moochy]

169. Maybe a soldier will print out this thread

And it will brighten their lives to know that whatever happens they are supported through 2013 and beyond.

[Enrique]

159. mission accomplished

you've outed the non-troop-supporters.

[ThomCat]

164. Nobody here doesn't support the troops.

What he's outed are the jingoistic asses who demand that everyone stand and solute, who think that platitudes are more important than substance.

Do you truly think that conditional, qualified support is somehow worse than knee-jerk ass-kissing?

[The Magistrate]

174. Your Characterization Of Ms. Cali's Comments, Mr. Zandor, Is Nonesensical

She has pointed out an absurd inflation of language often employed in reference to military personnel, and is correct that there are disturbing elements to it, and that it is a form of language and pattern of expression often encountered in militarist, even fascist, political life.

Military coups are generally thrown by people who believe that, by virtue of being soldiers, they are superior as patriots and citizens to 'mere' civilians, and that it is the armed forces that are the true body of the nation, not the people comprising it.

Soldiers, sailors, airmen, even Marines, are no different from, and no better than, anyone else. They possess no unique virtue lacked by all others: as a class of human, they are no more selfless, no more virtuous, not even more courageous, than the average run of humanity. The history of conscript mass armies, sweeping great swathes of the citizenry willy-nilly under arms, has demonstrated this quite conclusively, as the conscripts, once trained and hardened to the task, perform no differently than volunteers.

Throughout most of human history, these facts have been broadly recognized. The old Chinese saw that 'good iron is not made into nails, good men are not made into soldiers' finds echo in many other places. Kipling's poems are rife with the genial disregard of soldiers common to society, and Wellington himself described his men as 'the scum of the earth enlisted for drink.' A nation which displays a certain indifference to the martial virtues, and refrains from an elevated view of soldiering, is generally a safer and freer polity than one which does the opposite.

The phrase 'support the troops' is, in fact, a base political coinage aimed at rendering difficult well-deserved criticism of a particular regime's employment of soldiers. When a government goes to war dishonestly, against the national interest, and presses the conflict in a manner often criminal by plain reading of the laws of war, it seeks to make criticism of its actions and itself seem to be criticism of the soldiers it employs as its tools. But the two things are very different, as anyone who has given so much as two minutes consecutive thought to the question will see quite clearly.

"Most people would sooner die than think, and many do."

[Moochy]

177. Great post Magistrate!

Stop making me think! It hurts my brain-type parts! :evilgrin:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

250. HEY ZANDOR! AFTER YOU MUSTER UP THE BALLS TO REPLY TO SQUATCH IN THE OTHER THREAD, ANSWER THIS!

Magistrate -- I want to bear your children. Yes, I know we're both males. I don't care. :thumbsup:

[uppityperson]

254. If I could recommend only 1 post on this flurry of bs, yours would be it.

That's a compliment.

[H2O Man]

68. I agree.

I question why any sincere person would imply otherwise?

[Larissa238]

60. Support the troops, not the war!

They are not mutually exclusive, as some freepers think.

[IronLionZion]

61. I support NOT killing them to make money for war profiteers

bring them home

[ThatsMyBarack]

62. I bought one of Ava's tags!

It's a soldier's dogtag that says, "Support Our Troops. Bring Them Home." :patriot: :hippie:

[porphyrian]

66. Is there really anyone here who doesn't support them and want them home safe?

This feels like signing a loyalty contract.

[OnionPatch]

67. I support them by

paying attention to our government and speaking out when I think they are being mis-used. Too bad so many think supporting the troops means blind allegiance to a political party.

[bigtree]

77. nice to see this Zandor

that minority of Americans certainly deserves our recognition (and yours)

[Zandor]

102. Thanks!

[graywarrior]

78. Here!

:hi:

[supernova]

81. I support our troops by

seeing them as I see all people:

As equal human beings I happen to travel the planet with.

[SidDithers]

82. "I support our troops"...

posted it in cali's thread, but it's appropriate here too.

This Hour has 22 Minutes, on supporting Canadian troops in Afghanistan, but it certainly applies here too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSUKgFWFGGI

Sid

[applegrove]

83. The troops have gone beyond the call of duty IMHO.

[Hepburn]

85. SUPPORT OUR TROOPS ~~ END THE WAR AND BRING 'EM HOME!

:patriot:

[ronnie624]

86. US soldiers

are no more or less deserving of "support" than anyone else. I "support" the right of all people to live in a world free of military violence, and that includes US soldiers.

I am however far from being proud of their "service" in the destruction and rapine of another country, so if you don't mind, I will refrain from thanking them.

I apologize, if you consider this message a 'flame'. I do understand the need to assign noble motives, in some manner or other, to the State's military aggression, but I took an interest in reading at a young age, especially about war and oppression, and it has served me well, as a tool for resisting those feelings of nationalism.

[KG]

90. well said.

[Kajsa]

89. Thank you for your service and sacrifice.

I'm sorry your Commander in Chief let you down.

Be safe.
Come home soon.

[Zandor]

109. Well said n/t

[Kajsa]

138. Thanks, Zandor.

I love your sig line, btw.

;-) :hi:

[Zandor]

198. Feel free to lift it

I did. :)

[OneBlueSky]

93. "If you love your Uncle Sam, Bring 'em home, bring 'em home . . .

support our boys in Vietnam (or, in this case, Iraq),
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home."

Pete Seeger . . . and recently re-interpreted by Bruce Springsteen . . .

[NI4NI]

97. Support the Troops...........Donate Blood at a VA Hospital n/t

[Zandor]

106. Great post!!!!

[smoogatz]

100. Yep. No more fool's errands, pre-emptive war, or war for oil for US troops.

The best way to support them is not to send them off to kill and die for bad reasons.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

261. Amen

eom

[pingzing58]

107. Proud of our ground troops on the front and their brave service to home and country!!!

[Zandor]

110. Amen!

[againes654]

113. I support our troops.

I want them to come home NOW!!
I do not want a war with Iran!!

Thanks to all the men and women that morally and legally do their unbelievable job everyday!

[Zandor]

118. Thanks!

[againes654]

125. No need to thank me

I have always supported the troops, never wanted this war in the first place. Let me ask you a question that you will probably avoid answering, but I will ask anyway.

Do you support a US invasion of Iran?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

175. Suh-NAP!!!!

:D :hi:

[againes654]

184. I see he hasn't responded to my question

just like I thought. He really just likes to start threads to start a flame war. I think he gets off on it.

[NMDemDist2]

117. ....

:patriot:

[JHB]

119. Present. n/t

[Mad_Dem_X]

120. Thanks to all - hope you come home soon, and ALIVE!

God bless you all. :patriot:

[2rth2pwr]

121. Thanks to all those who volunteer to serve our country. nt

[tandot]

122. Thanks for volunteering to serve our country.

Stay safe and come home soon.

[Bonobo]

127. Hoo-Rah!! Bonono reporting for duty, Suh!!!

[JimboDem]

129. Thank You For Your Service and Sacrifice.

Godspeed.
:patriot:

[TahitiNut]

135. It is possible (a common valor) to serve our nation HONORABLY in a DISHONORABLE war and occupation.

I heartily support our friends, neighbors, and relatives who are honorably offering their service to this nation ... even though this nation does dishonor to their service by deploying it in a corrupt and dishonorable way!

The dishonor is OURS, not those who have put their civil liberties in trust to us.

[LeftCoast]

168. Agreed

Well stated!

[goodgd_yall]

187. WHat I don't get is

how are they serving our country? Serving a megalomaniac is more like it. It sickens me that the military members with good intentions to serve their country are abused this way.

[Zandor]

182. "It is possible (a common valor) to serve our nation HONORABLY in a DISHONORABLE war and occupation"

GREAT point, TN.

[goodgd_yall]

188. It would be more honorable if they laid down their arms and said "enough of this" n/t

[yardwork]

146. Are you aware of Rush Limbaugh's calling the troops "phony?"

[Squatch]

147. Ugh. Enough already.

[AlCzervik]

173. "No flamefest please"

:hi: :rofl:

were you aware it's troll homecoming week?

[Moochy]

178. Is that before or after

the Sockpuppet Hop :)

[AlCzervik]

179. after, god "No flamefest please"! now get in line to receive your "I support troops"

troops supporting medal.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

180. The Maudlin Cheerleading Is A Bit Much

Nothing like the smell of bathos in the morning

[goodgd_yall]

152. Service, Shmervice n/t

[uppityperson]

163. Some I am proud of, some not. That black/white thinking gets you into trouble.

As does attempts to label those who dissent unpatriotic.

End the occupation and bring them home now.

[Marrah_G]

186. How this thread turned so nasty is beyond me

It hurts to read though, it really does.

[Zandor]

192. I agree

And I apologize for any role I played. My intention was to keep it flame free.

[bigtree]

194. do you 'advocate war'? Have you?

in Iraq or otherwise?

[Zandor]

196. Briefly

I believe the Iraq war is a mistake. I don't support a strike on Iran or any other country at this time.

Honestly, I'd rather discuss these issues in another thread, my friend.

[bigtree]

199. thank you for answering

I would prefer to see those sentiments included along with any support expressed for the military. But, I appreciate your sentiment as it is.

[Zandor]

205. Thanks for your input

I do appreciate it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

195. You support action with Iran.

You can't support the troops and at the same time support a war with Iran.

It doesn't work that way.

[Zandor]

206. Please don't flame the thread

with untruths.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

208. Untruths?

I fully recommend everybody go back and read your posts.

[Zandor]

209. As do I, I'm proud of them

My journal contains many of them.

[AlCzervik]

231. stop posting flame bait then, it's just really that easy, you're posts are just insulting

light on facts and juvenile.

[Faux pas]

197. Thanks guys/gals! Hope we can get you home SOON! n/t

[Roxy66]

202. HERE!

[Zandor]

204. Thanks!

[renie408]

207. I am a Democrat because I believe in the inherent value of ALL people. Including the military.

So my support for them is interlaced with my support for everyone in need. Right now, the military is in need because they are being placed in an untenable situation. The best way to support them is to bring them home and out of harm's way. The best way to support them five years ago would have been to avoid this war.

[roguevalley]

210. For my dad, USN and for my nephews, uncles, brother and other

family: USN, Marines, Army, Air Force and Merchant Marines: I love you and salute you. To my cousin, Hannah, who is in Iraq, I pray for you as I pray for all who have and do serve. God bless the WWII generation who are dying out thousands every day.

[Zandor]

212. God bless them and you

:hi:

[spanone]

211. shame on a commander in cheif that sends them into an illegal war. i don't support the mission

i support the people not the military

[liberalsoldier5]

213. Here's to the greatest heroes on earth!!!

Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard: God bless them all!!!
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[Zandor]

214. Thank you!

[SidDithers]

267. ROFL...

oh, wait. You're serious.

Sid

[lonestarnot]

215. Not serving our country. Serving a bushitler, in case you haven't noticed.

[Swamp Rat]

217. OBEY!

[lonestarnot]

227. LOL!

:hug:

[bigtree]

223. serving each other as well

but these troops are still pledged and committed to our nation's defense

[lonestarnot]

228. Well they are not being used for that which they were pledged, so they're just being used.

[bigtree]

229. that shouldn't detract from appreciations for their service.

and not all troops are on such misguided missions

[lonestarnot]

247. True that.

[Reciprocity]

221. Hell yes. K&R

[Dr Fate]

226. Bring Johnny Home! n/t

n/t

[donheld]

230. Of Course I Do

[DinahMoeHum]

240. Bring them home now. . .Piss on mercenaries.

As far as I'm concerned, Blackwater mercenaries are no longer Americans.

[Patchuli]

241. Support the Troops

Bring them home ALIVE!

[IsItJustMe]

242. There are many people in this country that need our thanks and support.

Our troops, school teachers, fireman, policemen, social workers and all of the millions of other Americans who go to work every day and do thankless jobs. You see, I am an inclusive kind of person.

[FrenchieCat]

243. Here! I thank them for their service..........

:patriot:

[bdamomma]

245. just bring them back home.

:patriot:

[opiate69]

246. A while back, there was a post on DU by, I think, Bosshog...

(apologies if it was someone else..)
that went something like (major paraphrasing, from a most likely 2 year old memory ahead)
"when I was in theater, the only 'support' I gave a shit about was the air support we called in to neutralize the VCs"

[Evoman]

251. I don't support any troops in any capacity.

Your country has been lucky enough not to have a coup (not a military one, anyways) in it like mine did.

Kinda sours you on "the troops".

[Kajsa]

258. What country do you live in?

n/t

[DaveJ]

252. Thank You

Thanks for your service and patriotism, something that is still alive and well in America, however abused it is by a psychotic in the white House. You truly are a testimony to our strength and resilience against any obstacle along the way.

[_dynamicdems]

253. Yes. I support our troops and think it is time to bring them home from a faux mission.

They are needed at home.

[SayWhatYo]

255. I only support blackwater...

:hide:


oh wait, no flame-bait...

[Kurovski]

256. Support our troops with promises made being promises kept.

Do not use them thoughtlessly for illegal wars of aggression.

Honor them by keeping trustworthy, politicians and citizens alike. And if that trust is broken then work to remove the offending politician.

Bring them home.

[frog92969]

257. I have great respect for you

and the hell you live in day after day.
The neo-cons are hell bent for oil, and we can't pry their grubby fingers off the controls. But we keep trying.
When the Commander-in-Chimp decides an election "wouldn't be prudent", please be on our side. My arms are no match for Blackwater and I think that goes for most of us.

Stay alive and come home human, peace.

[G_j]

262. .. not in the way of magnificent battle but

in having to endure and somehow survive the unfathomable sorrow, devastation, horror and absolute heartbreak, usually at a young and inexperienced age. This war is illegal. They deserve for us to bring them all home.

[tom_paine]

263. We the People let you down, troops. We allowed monsters to use you as a child

would use his Xmas toys.

We're sorry.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

265. Bring them home now!

Overdeployed, poorly armored, even more poorly treated for their injuries once home.

Worst o all, * hides behind them whenever he's called out for the mess he's made.