Yeah, yeah, Limbaugh's a colossal prick, whatever...

[Bicoastal]

Good, the Democrats can take their revenge on the GOP for the MoveOn ruckus. Great.

Now can we PLEASE stop politicking and END this war already?!

[DemGa]

1. The Dems will do something about Limbaugh's "phony soldiers"?

Like what?? I mean, I've heard there's a sternly worded letter coming out, but those are laughable and accomplish nothing.

[hobbit709]

3. Sternly worded letter reminds me of a Keith Laumer book

"That flies in the face of Enlightened Galactic Opinion"

"So, how many battlecruisers does Enlightened Galactic Opinion have"

[Dr Fate]

8. No-no-no- perhaps they will issue a "release" about it too!!!

And then certain DUers can hold up it and say:

"See-DEMS ARE TOO fighting- didnt you see the press release on some obscure website? STOP saying DEMS are not fighting!!!"

[BOSSHOG]

2. Actually he is a pencil dick who needs viagra

However you do make an excellent point. Not only is ending the war the right thing to do but the end of senseless and endless killing will make conservatives very despondent.

[State the Obvious]

4. What do you mean....."whatever"?

This is what we do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x310572#310582

[provis99]

5. Democrats ain't doing squat about Limbaugh

[Emit]

6. "The point is not to win the argument, the point is to make sure the argument never stops."

From Matt Taibbi as excerpted here in this piece by Arthur Silber:

~snip~

There is still another significant, related danger lurking in this Western perspective. It arises in a very extreme form among Bush's most devoted followers, and Matt Taibbi identified it very well in an article I excerpted some time ago (in a piece explaining why I voted for Kerry in the last election). Taibbi went to work as a volunteer for Bush for Florida, to try to get a better understanding of what motivates many Republicans. Here is the most important part of what he came to understand:

The problem not only with fundamentalist Christians but with Republicans in general is not that they act on blind faith, without thinking. The problem is that they are incorrigible doubters with an insatiable appetite for Evidence. What they get off on is not Believing, but in having their beliefs tested. That's why their conversations and their media are so completely dominated by implacable bogeymen: marrying gays, liberals, the ACLU, Sean Penn, Europeans and so on. Their faith both in God and in their political convictions is too weak to survive without an unceasing string of real and imaginary confrontations with those people -- and for those confrontations, they are constantly assembling evidence and facts to make their case.

But here's the twist. They are not looking for facts with which to defeat opponents. They are looking for facts that ensure them an ever-expanding roster of opponents. They can be correct facts, incorrect facts, irrelevant facts, it doesn't matter. The point is not to win the argument, the point is to make sure the argument never stops. Permanent war isn't a policy imposed from above; it's an emotional imperative that rises from the bottom. In a way, it actually helps if the fact is dubious or untrue (like the Swift-boat business), because that guarantees an argument. You're arguing the particulars, where you're right, while they're arguing the underlying generalities, where they are.

Once you grasp this fact, you're a long way to understanding what the Hannitys and Limbaughs figured out long ago: These people will swallow anything you feed them, so long as it leaves them with a demon to wrestle with in their dreams.

~snip~

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2006/02/walking-into-iran-trap-iii-mythic-war.html

[SteveM]

9. Excellent quote. Is this where the expression "PermaWar" came from?...

What a lot of people on the left do not understand is that the hardcore extreme right (which controls the GOP) is rather impervious to charges of hypocrisy. Some get upset if some senator or congressman is glory-holing in a bathroom because the religious right may get upset, but for millions of other GOPers who are not nearly so religious but are nevertheless rank and file activists in the GOP, hypocrisy means nothing. They know Rush was a draft-dodger; hell, they know GWB was a draft-dodger. But they were (and are), too! They know Rush is a pill-popper always in search of more stinky on his dinky, but they did (do) the same. Their approach to moral consistency is this: Yeah, we screw up, but we take care of our own -- and we'll take care of YOU when we get the chance.

One quibble with Silber: "These people will swallow anything you feed them, so long as it leaves them with a demon to wrestle with in their dreams." The strategy of the GOP is not to wrestle with demons in dreams, the strategy is to provide these demons to the American PUBLIC, so that they might wrestle with them. That's how they keep winning.

[Emit]

12. Excellent point, there, and I agree.

(I think that was Taibbi's quote)

[Dr Fate]

7. LOL! What makes you think DEMS will use this to get revenge?

That would actually mean fighting the Repubs on their own turf for a change- we might get our hair mussed up and our fingernails dirty if we do that- It's easier for them to just keep attacking anti-war media like Moveon.

They will issue a "release" and a "statement" that DUers and a few bloggers will read, and that will be the end of it.

[SteveM]

10. Though I think MoveOn was hapless and naive with their statement...

You are right about the Democrats. They don't have the belly for a fight -- ANY fight -- with the GOP. And the GOP knows that.

What would be a good serious starting point for a discussion on the reasons change cannot be effected through current liberal/Democratic channels is a look at the post-McGovern liberal movement and its culture. I believe that is is a milieu of a non-confrontational, rather pacifist set of folks who eschew ideology and even political philosophy because of fear that the Far Right will frame then despoil any ideas libs may come up with. They hide behind such de-natured expressions as "third way," "building consensus," "gather the stakeholders," "create a win-win," "move forward (Move on?)", etc.; none of which suggests what they stand for let alone a plan to convince Americans of that (non) plan. Their's is a world of passive-aggressiveness writ large -- something that cannot be.

[Dr Fate]

11. From were I sit, it's the "centrists" who are scared of a fight, not pacifists or Liberals.

Perhaps I misread your post- but I dont see any good Liberals or pacifists who are afraid of taking a knock-down, drag-out fight to Bush or Rush Limbaugh- it seems to be the "tough-guy" pro-war "centrists" who always want to cave into them.

Correct me if I'm wrong- but the Liberals want to impeach Bush, while the "tough-guy" pro-war DEMS seemed frightened to death of even mentioning the word.