Remember "Bye-bye plane" and the baby benadryl dust-up?

[tblue37]

You may recall a few months ago that a woman and her child were thrown off a Continental plane because a flight attendant was annoyed that her 19-month-old toddler kept saying “Bye-bye, plane:

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/13664685/detail.html

Kate Penland said she was glad to board the plane in Houston after an 11-hour delay to visit her father in Oklahoma. But she said a rude and aggressive flight attendant caused her to get to Oklahoma a day late.

<snip>

“As we started taxiing, he started saying ‘Bye, bye plane,’ said Penland. “At the end of her speech, she leaned over the gentleman beside me and said, ‘It’s not funny anymore. You need to shut your baby up.’

In disbelief, Penland asked the woman if she was kidding. It was then, Penland said, the flight attendant went too far.

“She then said, ‘You know, it’s called baby Benadryl. And I said, 'Well, I'm not going to drug my child so you have a pleasant flight.'”

<snip>

Penland said when the other passengers began speaking up on her behalf, the flight attendant got angrier and soon announced they were turning around and that Penland and Garren were going to be taken off the plane.

There were a few lengthy threads on this topic back when the event occurred, and I was amazed that some DUers agreed with the flight attendant, some even going so far as to say that parents of babies and small children shouldn’t fly at all, because of the high probability that their kids would annoy other passengers or flight attendants. (Of course, no passengers were annoyed by this baby—just the flight attendant.)

I have never thought it a good idea to allow flight attendants (or any other adult with no medical knowledge) to prescribe potentially dangerous medications for very young children, especially when the purpose is to prevent the child from behaving in perfectly normal ways. A new recommendation from the FDA now recommends that no over-the-counter cold remedies with decongestants be given to children under 2, and that no meds with antihistamines be given to children under 6.

Although my main job is as a college English instructor, I also ran a home daycare for 18 years until my younger child started college. I sometimes had to get after parents who used such meds to make their kids go to sleep. One woman even admitted to me that she had accidentally OD’d her baby before I became their daycare provider, and that she honestly thought at the time that her baby would die. (She was more willing than a few others to accept my advice not to use the meds. There were a couple of parents who only agreed when I told them I wouldn’t accept their children into care unless they promised not to use the drugs, because I didn’t want to risk having a baby die in my care!) Even the fact that one version of the meds for kids is popularly "baby benadryl" gives people the wrong impression about how it should be used.

Here’s an article about FDA the recommendations.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/sep/29/fda_dont_give_toddlers_cold_cough_medicine/

Washington — Very young children simply should not take some commonly used cold and cough medicines, federal health officials say in recommending that the “consult your physician” advice to parents on the labels be dropped.

The preliminary recommendation, from Food and Drug Administration safety officials, would apply to decongestant use in children younger than 2, and antihistamines in those younger than 6, according to agency documents released Friday.

The review came in response to a recently filed petition by Baltimore city officials, who charged that many over-the-counter cough and cold remedies can harm toddlers and preschoolers. Those officials, joined by the American Academy of Pediatrics, cite evidence that suggests the drugs are not only risky but also don’t work in the very young.

<snip>

The Consumer Healthcare Products Association, which represents makers of over-the-counter medicines, backs the recommendation that the cold and cough treatments not be used in children younger than 2.

BTW, does anyone here know how that situation turned out? Did the airline apologize and somehow compensate the woman?

[Mend]

1. when I trained as a pediatrician over 30 years ago (NYC), we were taught never

to recommend cold remedies....that they only made things worse. Wonder how that knowledge got buried under the corporate state?

[tblue37]

2. Stressed out, exhausted parents are too vulnerable to

bad advice that promises them a break. The woman who almost OD's her baby was crying when she told me about it. I had no doubt she would never use such meds on her baby again. But I really did get arguments from a couple of other parents who were horrified that I was demanding that they give up the only thing they thought they could use to get some rest themselves (by sedating their babies).

[HuckleB]

4. What you were taught is the advice our pediatrician gave us.

She's been in practice for ten years or so, so somebody was still teaching that in the '90s.

[Sweet Freedom]

5. My daughter recently suffered from a bad cough

and nothing I gave her seemed to offer relief. So, I started doing some research on the Internet and found that pediatricians do not even recommend any type of cough medicine. They recommend water (to hydrate the body). I was really surprised, but grateful for the info.

[tblue37]

6. Sometimes steam helps, too. Take her into the bathroom and

close the doors. Run the shower hot, with the curtains (or shower door) open, and let the steam fill the room. Breathing in the steam will help a cough caused by croup, but it can also be beneficial in some cases of ordinary coughs. (It also moistens a little throat that is raw from coughing, helping to relieve discomfort.)

BUT DO NOT NOT NOT PUT THE BABY NEAR THE HOT WATER. The hot water is just to make steam, for the baby to breathe.

I am not assuming everyone is an idiot, but there could be people who read about the hot shower trick too quickly and not notice that the purpose is to let the baby breathe steam, NOT to put the baby in the hot water. Where baby safety is concerned, I always go with telling more, rather than assuming everyone understands what I mean. No insult is intended to anyone's intelligence.

[Mend]

7. that's exactly what we were taught in the old days....also on infants to try

a nasal syringe to remove some mucous and that saline (salt water) nose drops were okay. Older kids give ginger ale, honey and herbal tea without caffeine...just the good old remedies. People would be interested to learn that they make street meth with Sudafed and Dimetapp...ugh.

[Ms. Toad]

26. Not much sympathy for "uhg"

It's a lot worse when you can't get the antihistamine and decongestant you need.

No, we don't medicate for colds - just a waste of money (and may even make the problem worse).

Severe respiratory allergies (ragweed) are another matter, and I am not happy that the federal government has seen fit to require us to consent to have our purchasing history on file for years so the homeland security folks can peruse it and decide if my teenage daughter (who is now not even allowed to purchase her own medication) is a meth dealer.

The side effect of this regulation is that the generics are disappearing (who's going to ask for a store brand from behind the counter when you don't even know its there), so I have to purchase name brand medications at close to double the store brand prices I could find a little over a year ago. I have to wonder if the name brand peddlers weren't behind the excessive restrictions (which covers not only the single active ingredient meds - which are used to make meth, but combinations as well - which are not).

[Mend]

31. I think Singulair is great for allergies and asthma and it doesn't make meth...

of course it requires an rx.

[Ms. Toad]

39. and it is not on my health plan formulary

and, the last time I checked, using it for allergies was off label use - and therefore even less likely to be approved as an exception to the formulary.

Sorry, but I don't appreciate being treated as a criminal because my daughter has a severe ragweed allergy, nor do I appreciate being forced to buy name brand products (since all of the generics have disappeared because they didn't survive the behind the counter = have to ask for them by name brand routine), having to stand there with my calculator to calculate the best buy while tying up the pharmacist who can't leave me with the selection of products while I do my calculations, or having to buy prescription medication not covered by my health plan.

Meth is a problem, but the solution is not to treat allergy sufferers like criminals.

[Mend]

41. Singulair is most certainly for allergies...on label use. Your doctor can write

an over-ride to request insurance coverage. I do it frequently as ADD/ADHD patients do not react well to anti-histamines. Look at the Merck official website for complete information.

[Ms. Toad]

46. When my spouse started using it for allergies

Singulair was an asthma medication that was heavily used off label for allergies. We had a devil of a time getting it approved, because it was off label (even though it was on the formulary for that plan). The last time we jumped through that particular hoop was probably a year ago. I have not specifically checked it since then

Whether or not it is off label, it is not on the formulary for our current health plan, and the current health plan virtually never accepts overrides. We are working on one for my spouse, because the multi-drug combination she has been taking (which includes Singulair) is the first combination in the 35 years she has been treated for allergies that we have found something effective. The chances do not look good, so we are currently paying an arm and a leg for the only medication that has proven effective.

The circumstances are very different with our daughter. There is a perfectly good over the counter medicine that works to keep my daughter's allergies under control with minimal side effects. Suggesting she switch to Singulair is like telling me that because someone might use aspirin or ibuprofen for something evil that I should be start taking Imitrex for my migraines instead, even though aspiring and ibuprofen are both cheaper, more readily available, require less constant medication, and have fewer side effects. That's allowing the legislators to practice medicine (by making it difficult and, in some cases impossible, to obtain the most effective and appropriate medication to treat a particular illness). I don't think legislators should be practicing medicine (any more than I think health insurance companies should by creating formularies and limiting access to what may be the most effective medication by refusing to permit exceptions).

[Mend]

47. you had a hard time getting it approved because the insurance companies

force you to use the much cheaper alternatives...Singulair is expensive. If your doctor states that you have tried the cheapies and they either don't work or give bad side effects, the insurance company will cover it.

[Ms. Toad]

48. With all due respect,

it is not that simple.

I am not a neophyte in dealing with health insurance companies. I have had to deal with about 9 insurance companies over the last 20 years, or so. Because of a number of unusual conditions in our family, I have fairly frequently been required to seek approval for experimental, off label, or "brand name" treatment (for lack of a better word). (Sub-Q heparin for treatment of DVT in 1998 (see "Reimbursement" in this 2000 article: http://www.thieme-connect.com/ejournals/pdf/pvs/doi/10.1055/s-2000-9515.pdf ), off-formulary expensive anti-fungal medicine, and home administration of IV antibiotics for a child are some specific examples). I have virtually always been successful.

Our current insurance company is much more rigid than any of the others I have dealt with. It took over six months to get approval to see a specialist who is on contract with the plan and who is the only specialist with access to the specialized equipment required in a 100 mile radius. The referral request followed aggressive treatment for six months. The referral was supported by three separate physicians (in three related specialties, each of whom had participated in or were consulted about the previous 6 months of aggressive treatment). Although we finally received approval, it was only after being required to go through an additional six months repeating the same aggressive treatment that had already failed - at a cost of an additional six months of unrelenting headaches and being unable to breathe. I have never had to battle any other company that hard or that long just for the right to see a specialist who is an approved provider.

As noted, we are pursuing an exception to the formulary for Singulair my spouse (unrelated to the specialist - but the allergies aggravate the condition for which the specialist is needed), but do not expect to receive approval for it. The company just doesn't make exceptions to the formulary, based on anything I have learned from anyone I have spoken to both in and outside of the company.

[kath]

15. Yes - it's a shame that it wasn't mentioned in this article, but the AAP* is against the use of

cough suppressants in children. (*American Academy of Pediatrics)
Here is their policy statement:

http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics%3B99/6/918
Excerpt, from 1st few paragraphs of article:
ABSTRACT

Numerous prescription and nonprescription medications are currently available for suppression of cough, a common symptom in children. Because adverse effects and overdosage associated with the administration of cough and cold preparations in children have been reported, education of patients and parents about the lack of proven antitussive effects and the potential risks of these products is needed.

INDICATIONS AND CONTRAINDICATIONS

Cough is a reflex response to mechanical, chemical, or inflammatory irritation of the tracheobronchial tree mediated by sensory neurons in the airways reflexly through neurons in the brainstem. Cough serves as a physiologic function to clear airways of obstructive or irritating material or to warn of noxious substances in inspired air.1

In some pathologic states (eg, asthma, bronchopulmonary dysplasia, cystic fibrosis, and a variety of inflammatory conditions), excessive and/or abnormal airway secretions may be produced. The cough reflex serves to maintain airway patency by clearing these secretions. Clearing of pathologic tracheobronchial secretions is essential to patient management and may be enhanced by chest physiotherapy. Cough suppression may adversely affect patients with these conditions by promoting pooling of secretions, airway obstruction, secondary infection, and hypoxemia.

Many common respiratory conditions in which cough is prominent (eg, respiratory viral infections) are self-limited (lasting a few days). Cough may be an expression of airway reactivity or asthma. The cough that is associated with these conditions may be satisfactorily managed with fluids and increased ambient humidity (especially of value with croup). When cough is persistent, it is usually secondary to infection, allergy (including asthma), environmental irritants (eg, cigarette smoke, dust particles) or, occasionally, a foreign body. Therapy should be directed at the underlying condition for lasting benefit.

[HuckleB]

40. True.

Though it wouldn't be mentioned in an article regarding Benadryl, since it's an allergy medication, not a cough or cold medication.

[kath]

43. The article was not just about Benadryl. Here are the first sentences:

" Very young children simply should not take some commonly used cold and cough medicines, federal health officials say in recommending that the “consult your physician” advice to parents on the labels be dropped.

The preliminary recommendation, from Food and Drug Administration safety officials, would apply to decongestant use in children younger than 2, and antihistamines in those younger than 6, according to agency documents released Friday."

[HuckleB]

44. The article regarding FDA concerns does not include Benadryl.

The article about the flight attendant addressed only Benadryl.

Thus, there is no match in terms of discussion.

[HuckleB]

3. I had not heard about this one yet.

It does not appear to have been settled yet. Here's a more recent "update" of sorts: http://georgiatriallawyers.blogspot.com/ It's the second piece on the page.

As for babies and toddlers traveling, they do quite well. We have a 21-month old who has flown from Portland, Oregon to Phoenix, Arizona (twice), New York City (twice), Chicago, San Francisco, and Paris. On a number of flights we could see the irritation in the faces of the passenger(s) who were seated next to us, at the beginning of the flight. At the end of the flight, they all made comments about "what a well-behaved baby you have."

What has struck me most, is that our boy is not out of the ordinary. Very few of the babies and toddlers on the flights we have flown presented anything but normal, quite passengers. A very small minority had short meltdowns, and one had a long meltdown. Meanwhile, a small minority of adults had ludicrously loud conversations, with one couple getting into a shouting match on one flight. A couple passengers snored so loudly that those around them could not sleep, nor concentrate on reading.

My point is that when you fly, you are entering a very crowded city. You are not sitting on a secluded beach. Those who would ban babies and toddlers from flights have not thought this matter through, in my opinion. Further, I don't think their observations allow them to see the real picture.

[tblue37]

8. WOW! This paragraph from the article you linked is

horrifying! (As you have said, it's the second piece on the page.)

With absolutely no investigation or verification by the pilot, it was announced that they were returning to the gate and that Kate and Garrin would be removed from the flight. The mother and her toddler were taken from the plane and stranded, again, in Houston until the next day. Ms. Penland said that she requested to retrieve her checked baggage so that she could provide care to her toddler and to herself and was refused.
http://georgiatriallawyers.blogspot.com/

She should get a large settlement for this.

[HuckleB]

19. Indeed. It's absolutely stunning.

[Nikki Stone1]

9. I assume the flight attendant could read the article the same day you did--today

I also assume that parents should have some control over their babies and small children if they take them places like airplanes where their unrestrained behavior can affect others.

[Mend]

10. in the old days, people put up with my babies...on planes, in restaurants, etc.

We did the best we could not disturb others. Now it is our turn to be patient and we are.

[Nikki Stone1]

11. In the old days, which I remember, children were better behaved because

their parents actually believed that it was their job to help children fit into society by having good behavior and did not let them do as they please in public. I don't know how many young people you are in contact with on a daily basis, but the poor behavior and sense of entitlement that goes with it is a product of parenting that believes that children should not have any limits on how they conduct themselves in public.

[vanlassie]

12. So, in the old days

19 month old toddlers DIDN't babble and vocalize unless spoke to? <wink>

That must have been before MY time, and I remember the olden days.....

[Katherine Brengle]

13. Speaking is not out of control behavior.

[HuckleB]

18. Hogwash.

[KitchenWitch]

20. Can o' worms? CHECK

Can opener? CHECK

Please do not make broad brush statements like that. I happen to have two children and I DO NOT allow my children to "do as they please in public". I do not even let them "do as they please" in the privacy of our home.

I have set limits, my friends who are parents have set limits. I do not let my children hang out with other children that don't have proper limits set.

Anything else you want to paint with that brush?

[pnwmom]

28. The more things change, the more they remain the same.

Older generations ALWAYS think they were better behaved than the younger people are.

[seabeyond]

32. bullshit..... i am raising two boys and never have issues in public with them

continually here how good they are as if it is a miracle. but then, having watched many children over the years, friends of my boys, and seeing the good behavior, i am not seeing the "miracle" part, but really the expected. it is the unusual to have the out of control kid. i see way more out of control adults with a sense of entitlement than child

[tblue37]

36. The baby was saying, "Bye-bye, plane." How is that

bad behavior in public? And keep in mind that the baby had been subjected to an 11-hour wait at the airport for a delayed pane.

Heck, I think that baby should be nominated for sainthood. MOST babies that age would be wailing after a stressful 11 hours like that!

[tblue37]

35. But that's beside the point. She was demanding tht the woman

drug her baby to keep her from saying, "Bye--bye, palne."

I read this article today--but since I was maybe 13 (1963) I had more than enough sense to know you don't give potentially dangerous medications to babies--especially when there is no reason for drugging them.

And a baby saying "Bye-bye, Plane" is hardly a baby out of control.

All of the other passengers said they weren't bothered by the baby.

[Horse with no Name]

38. Yeah

and after sitting on a tarmac for 11 hours...the goddamned kid SHOULD understand that airlines are allowed to inconvenience it's customers but by God do NOT let a toddler annoy the high strung flight attendant. That kid should thank it's lucky stars she didn't have a TASER.

[Bluebear]

14. Yes, we remember, we remember! Not again, pleeeeease

;)

[tammywammy]

17. I second that motion

:)

[kath]

16. deleted

[tblue37]

21. Funny, another thread on the FDA

recommendation about cold meds made it to the front page, because it was considered so important, but this one has sunk like a stone. But I think the fact that a flight attendeant was able to have someone thrown off a plane for NOT giving her baby such dangerous drugs, just so he wouldn't say, "Bye-bye plane," is very important. I think the two stories need to be connected in the public mind. The fct that a flight attendant felt she ahd a right to demand the mother drug her baby strikes me as a real issue, especially now that this recommendation has come out.

[vanlassie]

22. As a Matter of Fact, If My Parents Had Tried To "Shush" Me

every time they thought someone around us was going to be "bothered" I doubt I would have grown into the outspoken and opinionated person I turned out to be!

Thanks, Mom and Dad, for letting me have my normal age-appropriate behaviors and not trying to make me conform to somebody else's ideas of "proper."

.....And for teaching me good manners, as well.

vanlassie

[pnwmom]

29. Good point, vanlassie.

I'm always suprised at the authoritarian children-should-be-seen-but-not-heard-and-maybe-not-even-seen-very-much thread that can run through DU.

[DeepModem Mom]

23. K&R

[tblue37]

24. Thanks!

[uppityperson]

25. benadryl made my toddler hyperactive. It often works so in very young/old.

[Mend]

30. and in kids/adults with ADD/ADHD....puts them on the ceiling.

[seabeyond]

33. my oldest too. as a matter of fact, it is on the label saying may hype the kid

if the attendent knew what she was talking about, it would have been the tylenol and motrin that is suppose to put a baby out. again, would hype my child. he reacts opposite with most drugs. geez.... he just has never slept much. but then he is the easiest child and never a problem for anyone, unless you want him to sleep.

[pnwmom]

27. Thanks for this post. I had also made the connection between the airplane

incident and the FDA warning, but you took the time to share this. Good for you.

Recommended.

[FloridaJudy]

34. To all those adults upset with crying infants

And babbling toddlers: they're called earplugs, people. They sell them in drugstores and airport kiosks everywhere. I use them when I have to do the laundry (my local laundromat features Fox Noise).

I can see getting fed up with a kid who was throwing a major tantrum, or running up and down the aisles, but normal toddler behavior? It's not nearly as annoying as those louts who scream into their cellphones. They need a good dose of Benadryl.

[tblue37]

37. I think the nazi flight attendant maybe needed some drugs--

Xanax comes to mind.

[FooFootheSnoo]

42. Remember the screaming toddler next to you may be in pain

I once got on a plane with what I thought was a pretty mild head cold. During take off and landing I was in severe pain. I guess because of the cold, I couldn't get my ears to pop. It felt like I was being stabbed in my ears with ice picks. I'll never forget it. It occurred to me that for a child under the age of 2, this would be an awful experience. They really only have one way to tell their caregiver that something is wrong and that is to cry long, hard and loud.

[HuckleB]

45. Indeed.