Michael Moore and Oprah Ask Audience: Why Should US Health Care Be for Profit?

[babylonsister]

Michael Moore and Oprah Ask Audience: Why Should US Health Care Be for Profit?

Posted by Muriel Kane and David Edwards at 5:43 AM on September 29, 2007.

David Edwards and Muriel Kane: Oprah says every American must see "Sicko" and joins Moore in challenging the insurance industry.


When Oprah Winfrey welcomed Michael Moore and two health insurance experts to her program on Thursday to discuss the health care crisis in America, she set as the central question for debate, "Do you fundamentally believe that the child of a gas station attendance and the child of an investment banker deserve the same health care?"

Professor Uwe Reinhardt, a German-born expert on health care economics, said Americans needed to overcome their "hangups about government" and start expecting government to do more.

"We love our country and yet we hate our government," commented Moore. "I don't think it's so much the government as who's put in charge of the government. There's nothing wrong with FEMA. ... What's wrong is heckuva job Brownie."

"Until we all see ourselves in the same boat, that we sink or swim together, we won't respond, whether it's to Katrina or to this health insurance crisis," Moore continued. "Are we the people who want to believe that we are all in this together, or is it every man for himself?"

"This is what Jesus would do," Moore added. "He wouldn't have let the child of a gas station attendant go without."

"We have been propagandized into believing that socialized is such a negative term," agreed Winfrey.

more, plus video at link~

http://alternet.org/blogs/peek/63935/#more

[blondeatlast]

1. I'd never watched Oprah before but that was a great program.

Reasoned, RESPECTFUL debate and Oprah kept a gently but firm hand on it.

It was clear from the audience reaction that this will be an issue next year. IF the Oprah audience is talking about it, it won't go away quietly.

Edit: Recommending--this program needs to be e-mailed to every American possible.

[JeanGrey]

6. I'm curious though. Who will Moore support for President?

He said on her program he didn't want his tax money going to the profits of insurance companies. Not a single dem in the lead has a single payer health system they all prop up insurance companies.

[blondeatlast]

8. Why are you asking me? And can't he talk about the issue only? Why

does he need to endorse anyone over a year before the election?

Or ever?

[JeanGrey]

32. I just wondered since I saw him on the show. Since he supports

as I do a single payer system and doesn't want one dollar going to the insurance companies, our top three candidates don't fall into that thinking.

[AdHocSolver]

23. Be realistic. The insurance companies, the drug companies, and hospitals are all out to make money.

They are too powerful to willingly give up the feeding frenzy on American treasure (what is left of it). A true single payer system (my preference) is not likely to happen this time around.

What is possible is for the government to impose regulation on the medical industry to limit the abuses and the cost to the public.

In the same way, the government has to regulate the energy and auto industries to reduce oil consumption and pollution. This was done in the 1970's when the government mandated fuel efficiency standards. Autos were redesigned to reduce emissions and improve gasoline mileage. Within a few years, oil imports dropped substantially and this reduced pollution and stabilized oil prices.

Then the auto and oil companies got mileage standards removed and there was no further progress in these areas (in fact, we went backwards with the production of gas guzzling SUV's). New technology today (hybrid-electric and all electric vehicles) has brought us the ability to further improve gas mileage so as to reduce oil imports, reduce pollution, and stabilize oil prices. The talk about "global warming" and the inflationary pressures on all prices due to high oil prices has brought this issue to public attention once again. We need to regulate the auto and oil industries again, and it may now be doable.

By the same reasoning and with renewed public awareness, it may now be possible to put some regulation on the medical industry to curb the abuses and help the people at the same time.

[JeanGrey]

33. I agree. But it just seems we are never going to get

what is truly needed.

[Pastiche423]

30. What lead?

Not a single vote has been cast. But, go ahead and perpetuate the meme that Dennis Kucinich is unelectable. You know, the guy that wants to end the war NOW and wants Universal Healthcare.

[JeanGrey]

34. Actually, I said that the top three, Hillary, Obama, and Edwards, their

plans all prop up insurance companies for profit. Dennis is the only one who does not. I was not saying that he or anyone is "unelectable".

[Pastiche423]

36. No, you din't

You said:

"Not a single dem in the lead..."

It's kind of dumb to claim you said something different, when what you really said is in the same thread.

Duh!

[JeanGrey]

39. Okay. When I said in the "lead" I meant the front runners

of our party for the nomination. Does that clear it up?

[JeanGrey]

41. I'm new to this board, but I'd like to ask you where you get

that I am perputating a "myth" about Dennis K? How does that connect with anything I've said? He is the only one who is for true NHC. The others aren't. I think Moore has done a great job with Sicko but he obviously knows that true NHC has to stop generating profits, and the top three dems in the lead, all of their plans do the opposite.

[Pastiche423]

42. I said nothing about a "myth"

It might help if you slow down and READ what is posted.

What I believe you are perpetuating, is that any one candidate is actually leading when no one has voted yet.

[JeanGrey]

44. Yes you did.

"But, go ahead and perpetuate the meme that Dennis Kucinich is unelectable". I am doing no such thing and haven't mentioned anything even close to the above. My comment was based on the fact that the three dems in the lead so far for the nomination - everyone of their plans props up insurance companies.

[SoCalDem]

2. Because we are no longer citizens.. we are consumers

customers...clients...

we have few, if any inherent rights.. what we have now are "privileges" handed out as we "deserve" them.. All else must be paid for, with the only thing our masters appreciate... cash.. cold hard cash..or debt to them..

[blondeatlast]

4. Moore and the professor both called the industry spokeswoman on that term

to some applause from the audience.

[AnneD]

18. This is my pet Nursing peeve!!!!!!!

Every now and again, the suits come down from on high (before a survey)and tell us that we must refer to patients as residents, customers, or consumers. They waste our time with these useless in services on customer service (would you like fries with that enema?) and one place even gave us a canned speech to regurgitate every morning (to out confused Alzheimer's pts). How would you like to be bed bound and listen to a canned speech every morning. Nurses have been telling management til they are blue in the face.....want better customer service scores-hire and pay for more Nursing staff. They are out there, they just refuse to work an unsafe practice.

And got forbid you should 'restrict' the diet (for health reasons) of some patients. Let's say the diabetic patient recovering from an amputation , excuse me, the customers family brings in the coronary bypass Burger King special and a shake and expects us to ok that food for the patient to eat or god forbid we get a bad survey back:eyes: Hell, I'm ready to let them go and give the bed to another patient that could appreciate it. I'm here to save asses not kiss 'em.

I discovered early in my Nursing practice that non profits were the best places to do 'real nursing care'. I may not make as much, but I am happier because I get to do service that is closer to what I feel Nursing is all about. I get to give good care and the patients get to recover and go home and take care of themselves. I hate this whole hospital as a hotel/spa business model.

Sorry for the Nurse :rant: but I finally walked away for the bedside because to this kind of abuse. I will be in Nursing for about 5 more years and then I will retire early 59. And I can feel safe in saying I will never put on those shoes again!

Profit had no place in patient care. They have been making this profit on the backs of Nurses and Nurse's aide long enough. And the patients have suffered for it.

[Lucinda]

22. Thank you for the post

I've seen it from the other side of the hospital bed. I've been in the hospital way too much the past few years. Everything from the administrative end is all about profits. As a result, its effecting patient care and beating great care givers into the ground. It's obscene.

But there are so many people who refuse to give up their "choice" and are happy with the status quo that I dont know what it will take to blast them into seeing that the system is bad.

[AnneD]

24. It is not so much that people make bad choices....

It is that spineless management does not stand up and say no to something that flies in the face of good health care (which is the whole point of hospitals anyway). They are more interested in the profit of the business-not the quality.

Take ICU-lots of hospitals are now going to 24 hour visitation. There is no privacy to begin with, way to much equipment to deal with, and this is sensitive equipment. I have seen folks unplug equipment, folks that aren't direct family ask for sensitive info on a patient then get pissed when the staff refuses to divulge it, ask about other patients, drag children in and expect the staff to babysit them, request meals for themselves from the staff, interrupt a nurse giving patient care (to another patient) to give a detailed explanation of what is going on to their loved one-even though they have not bothered to call the loved one in years.

Yeah, how much rest and patient care can one expect in this environment. But hey, the patient surveys look great. Gimme a break. The patients deserve better and so do the Nurses. That is one of the REALLY big reasons why Nurses leave. My sympathy to folks that have to navigate it these days.

[Robb]

26. Nice thing about patient surveys

...dead people rarely take the time to fill them out.

[AnneD]

45. Robb....

:evilgrin: so true!.

I won't even let a family member or close friend go in these days without someone with them to help navigate the system and protect them. I always tried to help shepard folks through the system as best I could. I really do have empathy for them, although it may not seem so. I just don't suffer fools too well these days. I can deal with a lack of knowledge, it's stupidity I have trouble with.;)

[Lucinda]

27. I was in trauma for a week last time

completely knocked out for seven days. My fella lived in the waiting rooms all that time. He'd come in for the 15 minutes or so every few hours he was allowed, and he was grateful that I was getting good care.

When I finally was conscious I was aware of just how hard the nurses were working. It was insane, and I dont know how they could do it day after day. I never heard too much about visiting family causing problems, but I'm sure they can really get in the way.

What I did noticed to be a huge problem was nursing staff working extremely long shifts with huge patient loads.

And adminiatrators were trying to crank people through the system as fast as possible, which ties back to the money end. Insurance is only going to pay for so many post-op days...

I think the whole system needs an overhaul.

[AdHocSolver]

25. Hospitals, even "nonprofits", are run by "bean counters" with no medical background.

Not that the bean counters couldn't ask medical staff for direction. From what I have seen, it just isn't their way.

The management in hospitals get degrees in "Hospital Administration" or "Health Care Administration". They are bean counters with little interest in healing people. Their sole interest in patient care seems to be in the area of avoiding or fighting law suits. As in most cases where I have observed upper management whose sole credentials are business degrees, they are intellectually challenged and lack empathy towards anyone not of their social class or level of wealth.

[October]

31. Wow! Brava for that post!

I'm glad to hear what you have to say on this subject.

[JeanGrey]

35. My Mom was in several nursing homes before her death,

and the one she got the very best care in was a non-profit. There aren't many around.

This is the only thing that worries me about NHC. What will happen to nurses salaries?

[AnneD]

47. Frankly.....

Most Nurses never went in to it for the money. I expect to be compensated in such a way as to take care of my family as befitting my skill and education but I have on more than one occasion taken less money for better working conditions.

All I have to go by is what Gov. Nursing positions pay now, and they are usually not bad. Hospitals have colluded (although they will deny this) to keep Nurses' salaries artificially low for years by getting rid of experienced Nurses for the newer less experienced (therefore cheaper). Hospitals are the first to push for HB1 visa to get foreign Nurses rather than improve pay and conditions.

Don't believe me-ask the Nurses in California. Once they started unionizing...working conditions AND salaries went up because hospitals were mandated BY LAW to have certain Nurse to patient ratios. Nurses came out of the woodwork and the shortage magically disappeared (of course you still need Nurses but it isn't as bad as it use to be).

And what about all the colleges around the country that are closing their Schools of Nursing. YES, IN THE MIDDLE OF A NURSING SHORTAGE-WE ARE CLOSING NURSING SCHOOLS. And if you are lucky enough to live by a Community College that has a Nursing program-they have hundreds of students vying for every slot. Shortage my ass.

Sometimes even non profits can be bad, but overall-they come closer to MY PERSONAL STANDARDS. And I refuse to lower my standards just to have a J-O-B.

Frankly, I have wanted universal coverage since Hillary's first attempt. She was very right then and the insurance companies got everyone worked up and the initiative was defeated. Frankly, I have been to countries that have some form of universal coverage and they look pretty competitive to me. I even sat in a waiting room with a friend waiting to see a Doc. We were in and out in no time with all the meds we needed.

I think the insurance companies need much more regulation and oversight than they have now. They don't approve most treatments, they don't pay damage-like Katrina. So my questions is, just what in the hell do they do besides cash my checks? That is why they are so dead set against universal coverage-they will have to wean themselves off the golden teat.

[JeanGrey]

50. I absolutely agree with everything you've said. I think nurses

deserve to be paid much more than they are; they do more health care than doctors. It bothers me that the NHC plans being discussed involve insurance companies and Hillary saying "managing critical care". We have too much "management" going on already.

[AnneD]

52. If I had a nickle .....

for every time a non Nurse told me how to do my Nurse job, I would have been in Fiji slurping down margaritas 5 years ago. Funny thing is I don't remember these folks sitting next to me when I was taking the Board exams:eyes:

So who is more qualified to talk about patient care? A real bedside Nurse. And yet during all these talks-I bet they won't have a single bedside Nurse on any comittee. I was so happy that Hillary got to shadow a Nurse but she only did 4 hours of a 12 hours shift and the hospital was union and had ratios in place...Excuse me while I remain underwhelmed.:sarcasm:

[JeanGrey]

54. I gotta agree. I've have health problems and I cannot

emphasize enough the value of good nurses!

[AdHocSolver]

20. More accurately, we are serfs, peons, helots.

Bush and company has returned America to those glory days of Feudalism. If you are useful to the powers that be, and only so long as you are useful to the powers that be, you will be taken care of to the level that the rulers price your services. Beyond that, people are a waste of money and resources. Classes of people are rated as to their capability to be a source of profit, and treated accordingly.

Our elected officials understand this and that is why many of them suck up to the moneyed classes. The wealthy elite maintain power by demonizing liberals, leftists, do-gooders, chicken-little environmentalists, and anyone else who would advocate any public policy, such as saving the environment, that would limit their ability to make profit.

A thousand years from now, if humanity survives, historians will be teaching our descendants how uncontrolled Capitalism brought a new Dark Ages to 21st century planet Earth.

[tom_paine]

3. At least Oprah is speaking up about SOMETHING

What a waste of a billion dollars and a media empire while the nation burns and dies under the Bushies' corrupt hand.

Try this one, Oprah: How about bringing to the fore in the national dialogue the millions of African-Americans that are being disenfranchised, and she can steer well clear of "uproven tinfoil", unproven only because no Bushie Law Enforcement will investigate their friends, not where election fraud is concerned.

But Oprah could bring the epidemic that is taking place abovegrond and in brod daylight so to speak, such as the voter caging and the disenfranchisement of thousands of African-American soldiers..

[babylonsister]

5. This wasn't supposed to be an Oprah bashing thread. nt

[blondeatlast]

7. Some people have a keyword hate function, I swear it. nt

[Frances]

9. I agree that the thread should be about health insurance.

[GeminiProgressive]

10. I'm glad that Oprah

is taking a more political sid enow and I am really glad it is ours. She can be a huge benefit to us in causes like healthcare. People listen to her.

[Jackpine Radical]

11. I don'rt watch Oprah, but I certainly don't hate her.

In fact, I watch hardly any TV, but my general impression of Oprah is that she is a gentle force for good, more at a subliminal level than as an advocate for specific causes. It was brave of her to put this topic before a mass audience in today's environment. Bravo Oprah.

[blondeatlast]

13. If Oprah's talking about it, it won't be easily ignored.

That's the beauty of it.

It was a really good program, IMHO.

[GoldenOldie]

12. A Government of the People, by the People, and for the People

We the People, are the Government and it is high time we remind the Profiteer's and OUR elected employees (reps) know who their boss is.

I get my sick when public officials are lauded/praised for devoting their life to public good, when in fact, they have only devoted their lives to partaking from the Public trough and making themselves extremely wealthy.

[SoCalDem]

15. Oprah is in a unique position. She HAS broadened her spectrum

over the years.. For a very long time, she stayed away from controversial stuff BECAUSE she aimed to appeal to all people (mostly women), and because as a black woman, I think she felt that she had to bend over backwards to NOT become an advocate for "her people".. Had she done that too soon, she would have turned OFF a large segment of people who would have written her off pretty quickly..

Oprah is "everywoman", and that's takjen her a long time to achieve, Now that she's there, she is starting to advocate more..

I also wished she had jumped on the voting irregularity issue in 2001 or 02, or 03...but it IS her show, and she gets to decide..

I'm glad she's onboard for the health care issue..

[riverdeep]

17. Actually, I think one of the reasons she holds sway,

is because she makes her advocacy a rare event. If she would have been like Rosie, who I personally liked, she would have given opponents to her proposals free reign to call her a shill.

Don't forget also that it's the superficial elements of her show that endear her to a large segment of America. They come for the Angelina Jolie, the make-overs, and the must-have items this season. Not for some Noam Chomsky-like analysis.

[Breeze54]

29. She's had a lot of shows about that. - Send her your ideas for a show!

Just go to www.oprah.com and do a search.

YOUR STORY

http://www.oprah.com/email/email_landing.jhtml

Do you have a story to share? The producers of The Oprah Winfrey Show
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See what shows we're working on and e-mail us your story for a chance to be on The Oprah Winfrey Show.

Contribute your ideas and experiences to O, The Oprah Magazine.


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---------------------------------------------------

After the Show: Follow-Up Show: Fall 2004
http://www.oprah.com/tows/after/200411/tows_after_20041103.jhtml
A room of first-time voters talk about what it feels like to exercise this right

Your state's voting requirements.
http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/tows_2000/tows_past_20000919_f.jhtml
Requirements listed by state on the voter registration process.

Vote. It Matters.
http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200409/20040929/slide_20040929_105.jhtml
Christina Aguilera talks about why she'll now vote and why she registers voters through Declare Yourself.


Gayle King: Michelle Obama
http://www.oprah.com/xm/gking/200706/gking_20070628.jhtml
'Oprah & Friends' host Gayle King talks with Michelle Obama, wife of presidential
hopeful Barack Obama, about life on the campaign trail

Phenomenal Woman: Marie C. Wilson
http://www.oprah.com/rys/omag/rys_omag_200403_phenom.jhtml
Her ultimate goal is to put a woman in the White House, but Marie C. Wilson
says she'll be pleased just raising women's interest in politics.


Gayle King: Anderson Cooper/The CNN-YouTube Debates
http://www.oprah.com/xm/gking/200707/gking_20070720.jhtml
Oprah & Friends host Gayle King talks with CNN's Anderson Cooper
about moderating the CNN-YouTube presidential debates


Vote: It Matters
http://www.oprah.com/presents/2004/vote/pres_2004_vote_main.jhtml


Cormac McCarthy's Play The Stonemason
http://www.oprah.com/obc_classic/featbook/road/author/road_author_bookshelf_07.jhtml
Cormac McCarthy's play 'The Stonemason' tells the story
of four generations of an African-American family.

Raising Fences, a book by Michael Datcher
http://www.oprah.com/tows/booksseen/200305/tows_book_20030509_mdatcher.jhtml
Narrative book reflecting upon a black man's fatherless childhood in Los Angeles.

[glowing]

14. To add to that thought on socialization... Home insurance should

be null and void too... there should be state or regional fund that is paid. When there is a disaster, people are paid. If the money that is held in the fund becomes in an excess that would cover re-building each and every home.. then, no one would have to pay into the fund for a while. The bigger, more expensive homes would have to pay more.. because the cost to replace a million dollar mansion is more costly.

Why is the insurance agencies so powerful... because they use our mandated insurance payments to become rich and powerful and use that buying power against us.

[Summer93]

16. Insurance is the issue

When they spoke of fire and police being not for profit that made a lot of sense to me.

For profit insurance of health care does not make sense to me. Kerry once asked who would be the last soldier to die for a mistake and now we can ask a similar question of insurance companies. Who is willing to die for the profit of insurance companies?

When the insurance company denies health care based on whether they will make a profit or not it becomes a matter of value of life. A poor person, uninsured person cannot pay for the profit of the insurance company so they are denied treatment or dropped from the "plan" and we don't hear what happens to them. I suspect the ones with serious costly health care issues die as a result of the insurance company choosing to profit.

Would we send a soldier into battle if they were not covered by "health insurance" and when they get shot the attending person checks to see if they are insured and the insurance company decides to let them bleed after they find that they do not carry health insurance.

[bobbolink]

21. "Who is willing to die for the profit of insurance companies? "

There are plenty of "liberals" who are willing to have OTHER people die for the insurance companies, so they (the "liberals") can get all kinds of goodies.

That's the true issue that's holding us back... those who have it "good" and don't want to risk losing that, just some some poor person can get needed treatment.

We'll get good health care for all WHEN and ONLY WHEN we all demand it!

[earth mom]

19. Moore kicked butt! It was a great show that people will sit up and take notice of.

And a show that the insurance industry will be shaking in their boots over. :evilgrin:

[superkia]

28. I wish more than one candidate agreed with non profit health care.

You would think that the people who are supposed to represent us, would want this as a basic right like it is for them! Its too bad there was only one candidate that stood up against the war also, we need to change our view on what makes someone electable to a position to represent us, the people and then maybe we will have change for the good in our country.

[and-justice-for-all]

37. Fire and Police are SOCIALIZED...

Have you ever received a bill from the Fire Department or the Police Department after they provided their services to you?? A 'NO' will suffice.

Health Care should be on the very same bases as the Fire and Police Department.

[renie408]

38. Good point. I never thought about it that way. Thanks! n/t

[AtomicKitten]

40. Excellent question.

The insurance companies need to find a new line of work. Healthcare should not be a profit-making business considering all the poor and uninsured in this country. The current system is broken.

[tomp]

43. healing is sacred work...

...antithetical to profit, different universes. all cultures knew this at one time. hospitals should be holy ground.

i work in a major ny hospital and in the lobby they have jewelry sales sometimes. all i can think of is jesus and the money-changers in the temple. my hospital is renting out space to crass merchandise hawkers while my comrades and i are upstairs giving our lives to saving lives, and doing so under conditions most people can't even begin to comprehend. hospitals are balancing their budgets on the backs of nurses. corporate health care is anti-nurse and anti-patient. ours is a truly sick system.

[AnneD]

53. So that's it......

Sacred work....

That's why we take that vow of poverty (sorry, we can only afford to give you a 3% raise even though we remodeled the CEO's suite and he gets a 900K bonus)

and that vow of obedience (sorry, we are short handed and you have to do mandatory over time-after your 12 hour shift)

and that vow of chastity (sorry dear, I am so dead-it was a rough da....zzzzzzzzz)


Frankly, the sacred work theory went out when abbeys and monasteries turned over health care to the insurance companies. This is just another way to suppress wages in a female dominated profession. Maybe once, when all a patient had to have was bed rest to heal well, that idea might fly.

But these days....I find my physics and chemistry background serve me better that those philosophy courses ever did. I am one of the few parents that can tutor their kid in the hard sciences. I use it every day (try getting some of this equipment to work without science knowledge).

Yes, I have seen some pretty miraculous things, but that doesn't clothe my kid and feed her. I already gave up saving for college for her and I'll be lucky if I have money for my retirement. Oh wait...since I've taken my vows-the hospital will do it for free. :sarcasm:

It's a brave new world now. Not to flame you because there is room for faith in healing, just don't expect folks to be paid in it.

[Imagevision]

46. If most people were healthy would they not ultimately be more productive?

[antigop]

48. A question Oprah also asked: Is healthcare a right?

I only know of one presidential candidate who has said that it is.

[madokie]

49. I don't normally watch daytime tv but for some reason I came in the house and seen Michael Moore's

mug on the teevee with Oprah so I had to watch a little. I am impressed with both Michael Moore and especially with Oprah. she seems to be a very nice and warm person who remembers where it is she came from and she is giving voice to concerns that are important to the most of us for instance Al Gore and the environment, Michael Moore and health care.

[antigop]

51. Since Oprah supports Obama, I hope she has a talk with him about non-profit healthcare n/t