SCHIP ? Who are they taxing to pay for it?

[Catchawave]

Tabacco? Is that all? Where's the booze tax and all those high-fructose corn syrup junk products out there ?

How about a buck on every fast food burger/pizza sold ?

I just noticed today, behind a lovely young lady with food stamps. She covered her bread, milk, eggs, some fruit and veggies. Fine. Then she hiked up a 24-cube of beer with cash.

What am I missing ?

[shraby]

1. Your not missing anything!

Been there myself and it's not fun. Can't afford to go out on the town so a few beers at home will have to do..and they aren't all consumed in one sitting.

[Freddie Stubbs]

2. The tobacco tax is popular because it affects a shringking percentage of the population

[TahitiNut]

3. It's always been popular to pick on an unpopular minority.

Imagine how self-righteous folks can feel about giveing health care to poorer kids by making someone else pay for it!

I remember when "progressives" opposed REGRESSIVE taxation. I guess hypocrisy is in style these days.

:puke:

[renie408]

4. Isn't 'somebody else' going to have to pay for it no matter what?

I thought that was the point. That they couldn't pay for it, so they needed somebody else to.

[TahitiNut]

9. How about EVERYONE according to their ability to pay???

I'm in favor of expanding SCHIP. But the ends do NOT justify the means. Excise taxes are regressive - and particularly noxious and regressive when imposed on a minority. It'd be bad enough if imposed on the broader base of people who consume alcohol - a majority of the adult population. Adding a $6.10 excise tax on every carton of cigarettes is just bullying. Taxation has already exceeded the 'cost' of smoking on the nation ... and we don't even offer smokers a piece of that pie to offset the impact on them if they get ill - or even on others who get a "smoking-related" illness. But it's not enough to enjoy their suffering and say "We told you so!" We have to make 'em pay. It's a despicable sense of equity. Despicable.

Excise taxes are paid by the jobless and the homeless as well as the employed and the wealthy. They're appalling.

[Spinzonner]

16. Think it of paying ahead for the extra medical costs

that people who consume such products are statistically are (more) likely to cost society when they reach Medicare age or require subsidized health care costs.

[TahitiNut]

19. The taxes levied on tobacco already more than cover all such alleged costs ...

... and, furthermore, absolutely none of those revenues are directed to the people who've paid them to offset THEIR direct costs ... not to mention their suffering and death.

But what the hell ... their suffering and early demise isn't nearly enough to satisfy the self-righteous blood-lust of the tobacco Nazis, is it? Why not make them pay? After all, WE'RE the majority and we can do anything we want to, right?

Ethically bankrupt. :puke:

[Kajsa]

21. Thank you, TahitiNut.

That's exactly what I said in a thread a few weeks back.

:-)

[Toots]

25. Easy to avoid those taxes just quit smoking...

:shrug: such whining over something with such an easy solution. Getting people to quit is one of the main reasons for the tax. It is easier than making it illegal..They did the same with other drugs such as pot and opium...

[Breeze54]

26. Sin Taxes don't work and it's unfair

to have one group pay for everyone else's health care costs!

[Toots]

27. What do you base your opinion?

It is very evident that higher prices on anything reduce buying. Children don't start near as easily when cigarettes are expensive as if they were cheap. Money talks "Big Time". Price of tobacco is a great influence on people quitting. To deny that is like denying the holocaust..IMO

[Breeze54]

28. I already posted the links to the study about health care costs

and who is causing it to rise, and it isn't smokers, it's the obese!

Look down thread.

Raising the cost of cigs won't stop people, as prohibition didn't work either.

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB4549/index1.html">The Health Risks of Obesity: Worse Than Smoking, Drinking, or Poverty

[Spinzonner]

15. It's only regressive for those who choose to pay it

by purchasing the related product (legally)

Kick the habit and those someone else's won't have to pay it.

Doesn't seem like hypocrisy to me.

[TahitiNut]

18. Utter and total nonsense.

The terms 'regressive' and 'progressive' when used to describe systems of taxation are MEANINGLESS when made in reference to individual instances and your poor rationalization merely highlights the paucity of any ethical underpinning to such a choice of taxation.

At the very least, it creates a state economic interest in people CONTINUING in a behavior that is proclaimed detrimental. Which is of more value to the People, the health of the children or the health of the People? It creates a conflict of interests that leads to a detrimental impact. If that were a characteristic of a personal relationship, it'd be called a dysfunctional codependency.

It's noteworthy when people resort to such inane, invalid, or false rationalizations to protect an unethical or irrational stance.

[Raejeanowl]

22. Don't Get Me Started

Tobacco taxation is the ultimate in fraud and hypocrisy, especially in states that $$$ benefited from the settlements.

[Catchawave]

6. I think the ante needs to be upped then.....

alcohol and soft drinks ? Which would probably help control the overindulgences, not to mention a junk food tax.

Hell, we could pay for Universal Health Care, lose weight and sober up, much like gas taxes can help save oil too :shrug:

[Ghost in the Machine]

17. Well, if it's a shrinking tax base shouldn't they use a more stable base?

I say let's put the tax on alcohol & drinkers. They cause way more carnage, death and injury than smokers do..

I hope Bush DOES veto the bill. There, I said it...

They need to gey their money from a wider range of taxpayers...

[OzarkDem]

5. Agree, its a bad idea

First, a long term health care benefit needs to have a long term, stable source of funding.

[Catchawave]

7. Exactly, I hate the pressure

as a smoker, that if I give it up tommorrow, a child might suffer? Makes no sense at all. :silly:

[OzarkDem]

11. One of the things I learned about creating good public policy

is making sure that the source of funding for key programs like health care and education is sustainable for the long term. What's the benefit of putting together a program if you end up constantly having to fight for its existence due to an unreliable source of revenue?

Its a big disappointment to see so many of the so-called liberal think tanks resorting to such shoddy practices for what they think is a quick fix. It greatly diminishes the chances of ever having universal health care. You know defense contractors, etc. know better - that's how they keep their programs funded.

[PDenton]

29. Agreed

I'm oppossed to the sCHIP expansion for two reasons:

- the tax is not proportionate. Smokers do not necessarily cause sick children. Somebody who is single or married without children and works at home and smokes... how can he possibly be contributing to some kid's illness?
- taxing tobacco is no longer a stable source of income. The number of smokers out there fluctuates too wildly. This isn't the 70's or 80's when there is a dependable chunk of the population smoking.

[rubberducky]

8. OK so they raise tobacco taxes by $20..00 a carton.

This will create a really big underground industry for illegal cigs. We`re going to need a lot more prisons. When granny and grandpa get busted for buying illegal cigs, the gov will confiscate thier worldly goods to throw them in the slammer.We have embarked on a very slippery slope.

[EFerrari]

10. Please swear that if you lived a life of abject poverty

you would never try to check out for a moment.

Man.

[TahitiNut]

13. Affluent folks take a week in the Bahamas. Poor folks get numb for a couple hours.

... and the former belittle the latter for it. Fucking unreal. (No... I don't drink and I'm not affluent.)

[EFerrari]

14. It is fucking unreal What is the MATTER with people.

She bought BEER? OMFG! Put her in the stocks?

Did she LAUGH, too? Double her sentence.

[Breeze54]

24. No shit!!

The sanctimonious people here are truly disgusting!

[Wiley50]

12. What Are You Missing? Compassion

It's pretty stressful living close to the bone

You don't get to unwind with diversions many others take for granted

A babysitter for a night out away from the kids, dinner in a nice restaurant, a movie........

It's a lot of stress looking at your budget until the numbers swim before your eyes
wondering how the fuck you are gonna pay for all of the big expenses and still make ends meet

I don't blame her one bit

And who the fuck do you think you are to judge?

[Kajsa]

20. Thank you, Catchawave,

I posted a thread about this ( trying to find it)
a few weeks back.

Two replies was all I got- mean ,nasty replies.

I PMed two other smokers to help out the thread,
one is very well known on GD- no reply whatsoever!

You stated so well what I was trying to get across.

EVERYONE SHOULD BE HELPING OUT with funding healthcare for children.

Rob Reiner can go to hell!

He started this BS in CA over 10 years ago.
The latest attempt to hike tobacco taxes failed in CA,
last November.

:yourock:

[Breeze54]

23. How do you know it was her cash?

Probably was for her S/O! And so what?? She didn't use the FS to buy it. A lot of people
who work also qualify for FS but not necessarily for health care. Maybe the beer is for the
game and her boyfriend or hubby so they can watch the football game and have a little fun at
home because they can't afford the tickets to the game? Judge much?

Smokers should not be the only one's to have to pay for this program!

Obese people cost more in health costs than smokers, elderly or drinkers!

Today I saw this really fat guy buy steak, pork chops, ice cream, chips & dip, soda, a case
of beer and a fifth of rum and he hopped in his Humvee and I'll bet he loves his tax breaks!!