"Women, cover up or burn in hell!"

[ThomCat]

On the subway yesterday (in NYC) it's not uncommon to get street preachers wandering from car to car shouting about the need to be saved.

Yesterday it got surreal. A guy, who was clearly not a trained preacher, got on my train and started ranting at the top of his lungs about women need to cover themselves, because they are luring and tempting men to lust, and if they don't cover themselves they will burn in the fires of eternal hell!

One woman on the train demanded to know when men will be held responsible for controling their own lust. This guy tried to shout her down by insisting that she is to blame for tempting men, and she will burn in hell.

I'm used to wacked out preachers with bigotted messages, but that was just so blatant that a bunch of us laughed when he got off at the next stop.

Do you have to deal with stuff like this in public? And how would you handle it?

[Taverner]

1. Wow...NYC truly does have everything doesn't it?

When I come accross a street preacher I usually (a) ignore him (b) throw things at him.

I know option b may be frowned up on here, but trust me - nothing is funnier than the look on a street preacher's face when its full of diet coke.

[youthere]

28. I live in Iowa, and they're in Cedar Rapids.

I had one scream at me I was going to hell for wearing pants. I told him I had to because I wasn't wearing any underwear.

[donsu]

37. lol love it

nt

[ThomCat]

42. That is an awesome, fantastic response.

:P

[usaftmo]

119. You owe me a new keyboard!

:spray:

[ldf]

118. if you don't live here in nyc

you truly have no idea.

i think part of the problem is that people DON'T react to all that crap. we should.

but it's understandable. we have quite a few mental cases walking the streets. it doesn't take much to push some of them over the edge.

but, having said that, nyc is incredible.

if the bushies ever really try to take control, nyc will be the last place they would succeed. there is something to be said about being amongst so many like minded folk.

they would be entering nyc at their own risk.

hopefully the nyc october (29th?) march against war will get a really good turnout.

[Jed Dilligan]

2. There's a thin line between religion and mental illness

And I'd bet you anything that clown has done time for sex offenses.

[ThomCat]

6. I was talking to two of the women on the train saying something similar

"I'll bet good money that lunatic is abusive to any women unfortunate enough to be with him."

[Jed Dilligan]

21. The fire 'n brimstone/salvation form of Xtianity

is very attractive to criminals, for obvious reasons.

The particular form of evangelism you witnessed is something that spreads through the prison system. I've known and worked with a lot of ex-cons, and many of them have intense religious concerns about attire, swearing in public, and other minor moral issues.

[javelina]

30. Huh?

How do you know he was a Christian preacher? The OP didn't say anything about it, and there's nothing in the story to indicate that the guy talked about Jesus or anything. Why do you automatically assume this was a Christian person?

[ThomCat]

35. The street preachers are always christian.

Anyone preaching anything else is putting their life in danger. I've seen people preach other things out on sidewalks in certain places, but on the subways it's always christians.

You are correct though, I didn't mention this guy's religion.

[javelina]

41. You're in NYC right?

You've apparently never run across the Islamic Thinker's Society dudes. You want to here some crazy street evangelism, go to Times Square when those guys are out. Whoa.

[ThomCat]

44. Outside,

you're right. Outside, in times square, in some of the parks, and on the sidewalk in some places you'll find people preaching almost anything.

But on the subway it's an entirely different world, and I've never seen a preacher who wasn't christian. :shrug:

[Dorian Gray]

80. No they are not....

I've seen some Jewish and Nation of Islam preachers on the trains.

[ThomCat]

81. The closest I've ever seen is Jews For Jesus

who are not Jewish as all. They are a Christian missionary group that targets Jews.

I've seen Nation of Islam in the parks. I guess I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the subway, but I haven't ever seen them.

[Dorian Gray]

120. The other week

there was a messianic Jewish organization on the train. They were not Jews for Jesus, though. (The messiah that they wre talking about was a more modern one: The Rebbe.)

I do live on the border of Crown Heights, though, so I might get more of that stuff out here. My neighborhood borders a VERY ORTHODOX Jewish neighborhood, and there is a higher concentration of messianic Jews here. (I also don't consider Jews for Jesus to be Jewish, but rather Christians who try to emulate a Jewish lifestyle. I know most of their adherents come from a Christian background.)

There are also Nation of Islam evangelists who stand at the bottom of the Brooklyn Bridge (Brooklyn side) quite often, passing out their literature to passers-by and selling baked products. I know that's not ON the subway, but it's still a transportaion route!

[Jed Dilligan]

50. lol

What else would he have been?

Have you ever seen a Jewish street preacher?

I guess he could have been with Farrakhan, in which case my comments still hold...


Are you one of those poor widdle Chwistians that always act so persecuted here?

:rofl:

[javelina]

52. You're clearly not from NYC

Even the other poster has admitted to seeing crazy non-Christian street preachers in NYC. I know it makes you feel cool to belittle the "poor widdle Christians," but it also makes you look like a moron.

[ThomCat]

55. Just because there are crazies who aren't christian

doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of them are christian. :)

Just playing the odds, if you hear about a crazy preacher it's almost always safe to assume he's christian.

[javelina]

56. the vast majority of Americans are Christians

so, I guess what you say is true. In fact, if you see a non-crazy person in America, it's likely that he's also a Christian. Basic statistics and all that - I could teach you if you want.

[ThomCat]

58. Thanks, but I don't need an education in statistics.

Have one, thanks.

It's not just demographics though. It's also distribution of power. If someone is out there preaching Krishna Consciousness he's more likly to be harassed by the public and by the police. Christianity, even fringe christianity, is in a privilaged position in the US.

Do you always get so defensive?

[Jed Dilligan]

64. Also, Krishnas don't go telling women

to cover up their whorish bodies.

By the location and content of the episode, I'd say the odds are about 95% Christian, 4% Black Muslim, and (generously) 1% anything else.

[LanternWaste]

101. Isn't that more of a Muslim thing than a Christian thing?

"Also, Krishnas don't go telling women to cover up their whorish bodies."

Isn't that more of a Muslim thing than a Christian thing?

[Jed Dilligan]

102. It's a Muslim/Christian/Jewish thing

if any of those faiths are interpreted from a fundamentalist perspective.

It's only in the past generation that women have been allowed to go bareheaded in a Catholic church.

[LanternWaste]

104. Well, I'll keep my ears open...

Well, I'll keep my ears open at church this weekend and if I hear someone berate another person for their dress and call them whorish, I'll figure you may have a point...

[Jed Dilligan]

105. Why do you people take everything personally?

Isn't it enough that you totally dominate the nation's public life? Can you not tolerate ANY criticism of ANY Christian?

[ThomCat]

108. Seriously.

And if he doesn't notice gender based pressure in his individual church, why, that must absolve all christians, no matter how often religion is used to judge and label women's appearances.

It's not a coincidence that the stereotypes about women are referred to as the Madonna/Whore complex.

[Ignis]

91. Basic statistics? LOL. Try again.

Let's completely ignore the fact that Pauline Christianity is a "proselytize or burn" type of religion that demands that its adherents "spread the word" to anyone and everyone...over and over and over again.

There are tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Buddhists in NYC, but when was the last time a saffron-robed monk accosted you and said you'd burn in hell for wearing shorts, or showed up at your doorstep on a Sunday morning to say you'll burn in hell because you're not at a religious service?

Common Sense: Apparently, it isn't.

[LanternWaste]

103. Get used to it-- turn a blind eye to it...

Get used to it-- turn a blind eye to it.

There's really no winning-- if you find a sweeping generalization towards a religion inappropriate and state as such, you'll get the "oh! you poor oppressed Christian routine". If you say nothing, you'll get the "why don't you progressive Christian's take care of your fascist brethren and make them shut up?" routine.

Just ignore. It becomes entertaining to watch the pissing contests after a while...

[spoony]

106. Yeah I love that one

It's like, you and I and everyone else is responsible for an individual's negative experiences with their upbringing or whatever, or for some dingbat off his meds in the subway. It's OUR problem and until we bring every single person into line, their prejudices are perfectly justifiable as far as they're concerned.

[ThomCat]

111. Not you personally, but christianity collectively.

Christianity has been the biggest cultural force (in most of it's forms) pushing the madonna/whore dicotomy, and insisting on strict adherence to gender roles.

Still today, after all this time, the primary opposition to GLBT people comes from religion, and in the US that means Christians. Not every christain, and not necessarily you are any other specific christian, but definitely from christians as a collective group. And not only From christians, but Because of their christian faith, Because of their christianity.

Just just because you think that your personal christianity is blameless doesn't mean that christianity is blameless. Just because you can point to some christians who (you believe) don't perpetuate stereotypes doesn't mean that christianity doesn't perpetuatate stereotypes. Just because you are not to blame personally doesn't mean that your group doesn't, and by extention that means you as a member of that group.

It amazes me when christians insist that christianity itself must be blameless, but those same christians frequently have no problem holding other groups responsible in ways they don't want to allow christianity to be held responsible.

[spoony]

112. That amazes me too

"It amazes me when christians insist that christianity itself must be blameless"

Of course, it amazes me more when non-Christians insist that Christianity must be blameless lest the lot of us be irredeemably guilty, untrustworthy, enemies, insane, etc. etc.

[Jed Dilligan]

62. I am SO glad I'm not from NYC!

I may look like a moron but you sound like an asshole.

[spoony]

97. Doesn't sound like a thin line to me, the guy was a nutter.

Full stop.

[Sparkly]

115. I think that's absolutely right.

At the risk of pissing sane religious people off, I completely agree that "there's a thin line between religion and mental illness."

Not sure about the sex offenses, but some schizophrenia I could believe.

[Jed Dilligan]

116. There are two different dimensions possibly at work,

one of which is schizophrenia, which often manifests in religious imagery. I think many of the great religious prophets were schizophrenics.

There is also a strong (both Christian and Muslim) evangelical movement in the prison system. It's convenient for offenders because A. it places blame on "the devil," "temptation" or some outside force for what they did, and B. some parole board members are actually impressed by jailhouse conversions.

In this case, maybe it's a little of both?

:shrug:

[TheUniverse]

3. Looks like Hell is gonna be more fun!

[Javaman]

70. I have a table reserved, I can save you a spot. LOL nt

[MADem]

4. Women in Iran have to deal with this shit every day--from the cops on the street.

Every cop is a preacher when it comes to telling the dames what to do!!! See, it's all their fault that a glimpse of their hair or their arms or ankles will send an unwashed, unshaven shitbird into a frenzy...the women of Iraq are getting this kind of crap lately, too--they're not yet as full-bore on the hijab, but only a fool goes out without a handy dandy scarf, just in case.

And it's even worse in Saudi Arabia. There, the women can't even go out without a male/relative/chaperone. And forget about driving!

That's how they roll over there. It's a region of "whacked out preachers with bigoted messages" you see.

[terisan]

23. Oh those Semen Control-Challenged preachers. Need to consider chemical castration for themselves.

Just thinking about it may be enough to shrivel their lustiness.

[BushOut06]

5. And these are the same people who want to go to war with Iran...

If only they knew just how much they have in common with Iran.

[leftynyc]

26. You're assuming the crazy man was Christian

Why?

[javelina]

33. Apparently

only Christians can be crazy according to some people in this thread...

[MindPilot]

39. the reference to the eternal fires of hell

makes it a fairly safe assumption.

[javelina]

43. Because other religions don't believe in Hell?? n/t

[ieoeja]

98. No, they don't.

"This is a Christian country," said the first man. "So is Hell," responded the second.


The major eastern religions don't believe in hell. In the west, Judaism has no hell.

I am not certain about Islam. Islam *is* a form of Christianity. And so it may incorporate the Christian hell.

[ThomCat]

40. Where did that post say anything about christians?

:shrug:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. remember the guy who shouted "STOP SINNING" to me? that was funny

[ThomCat]

11. He was just jealous because there is no way in hell

you'd ever sin with him. :P

[notadmblnd]

8. No, I haven't had do deal with anything like that

but I'd probably pull my shirt off and ask him; "how ya like me now m'f'er?"

[ThomCat]

I would have paid damned good money to see him

turn colors if any woman ever flashed him. :rofl:

[The Traveler]

9. Tranquilizer darts

Good for giving lunatics a nap and stopping a charging elk. You never know when you might be confronted by a charging elk, so don't leave home without 'em. :evilgrin:

[ThomCat]

74. I'd be worried that it would give them an excuse to fire back.

:P

Then we'd really be a captive audience. We'd all wake up baptized.

[The Traveler]

89. You are trying

to give me nightmares, aren't you.

:scared:

[Debau2005]

10. Sounds like a guy in college

He was some guy that came through the Southern colleges once a year, carrying a cross, and yelling at everyone for preceived sins. He had a supposedly former hooker, named Cindy, that "preached" with him.

Usually by the end of the 2nd day, he had a police escort, because he was being threatened.

[Mike Daniels]

24. That wasn't Reverend Jim was it?

My first year at JMU in 1985 on a beautiful spring day some guy took up position right next to the hill where people used to lounge around in the sun.

He started in on this rant that covered the evils of women, fornication, rock and roll and the other usually points of discussion. The whole thing became a participatory call and response interactive thing between the preacher and the "heathens" on the hill.

Usually about 30 minutes into his shtick the campus police would haul him off for not having a permit.

Reverend Jim came around twice a year and I swear it was the best free entertainment that the campus had each year. The student activities office should have booked this guy and sold tickets.

[Debau2005]

32. Might have been!

I was at Auburn U in the 80's.

The entertainment was watching the frats go insane when he attacked them.

[Crunchy Frog]

48. Jed Smock.

Brother Jed and Sister Cindy. They used to come to my campus. They were (are) pretty notorious. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Jed

[Mike Daniels]

121. That's it ( Jed and Cindy )

Rolling Stone did an article on their group right around the time he appeared at JMU in 1985.

The crowds at JMU were pretty mellow towards the guy. They'd rib and heckle but I don't think anyone ever threw anything at him. Generally, the crowd/targets would play along where women and guys would flirt with Brother Jed when he would attack loose women and homosexuals.

[bullwinkle428]

65. Reverend Jim? From "Taxi"?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

12. In the tray I take to work, sometimes there's an evangelical prayer circle. A loud one.

I usually change wagons.

[ThomCat]

16. I would too.

One of the things I dispise most about NYC is being forced to endure street preachers when you're a captive audience on public transit. x(

If I could identify where they are, I'd be somewhere else every time.

[Deep13]

13. So lust is bad?

:shrug:
Damn. I guess God should have left that bit out then. If we are created in his image and likeness, doesn't that mean God also lusts? If so, then this condemnation of human lust is really a way for God to hate himself vicariously.

[NMMNG]

17. Of course lust is bad

It makes you want to have sex, which feels good. And when you're feeling good you aren't thinking about God and serving God.

Don't you know anything? :silly:

[Deep13]

20. Oh, of course. Duh!

You're not really after my kittens are you?

[NMMNG]

34. You haven't heard?

Atheists eat kittens. :evilgrin:




Oh wait...that's supposed to be a secret. :o Forget you read that.

[MindPilot]

27. Oh god, oh GOD!!

I'm an Atheist and even I find a way to think about god during sex.

[NMMNG]

36. See, you really do believe in him

;-)

[ThomCat]

Oh, you're gonna burn in hell

for suggesting that god isn't perfect! :P

[Deep13]

29. Suggesting it?

Well, let's clarify. The only reason God is not an evil, malicious, sadistic bastard is because he doesn't exist. Anything as screwed up as the God of the OT/NT/Koran has got to be created by men who are incapable of have normal relationships with women.

[NMMNG]

14. I haven't had to deal with it so far

But if I had some whackjob telling me I'd burn in hell I'd tell him how glad I was--since I obviously wouldn't be seeing idiots like him there.

[AX10]

15. He sounds like Osama. He should be arrested and detained.

afterall, he sounds like a terrorist, right Freepers?!?

[MindPilot]

18. LOL!! I think I would have suggested he not ruin the view

for the rest of us.

I was in Seattle a few weeks ago; there was a street preacher who was trying very scientifically to use chaos theory to disprove evolution. He had some charts and graphs, but absolutely no-one was paying any attention to him except some Japanese tourists who took his picture.

[IndianaJones]

19. Its NYC...

can't you pull out a gun, Goetz style, and shoot him?

[ThomCat]

22. Nah. That's not how it works anymore.

Now only the cops are allowed to randomly shoot people. :shrug:

[IndianaJones]

31. Do they have those Guardian Angels there? Grab one of those guys...

and use him to beat the dude senseless. Preferably Sliwa if he's available. Make sure you grab him by the feet and use his head as the bludgeon.

[ThomCat]

46. I've met Sliwa.

Nothing would make me happier. :P

[IndianaJones]

53. I first saw him on the Morton Downey show...

I knew at that time that he must be destroyed.

[donsu]

47. Miami, its Miami where you can kill anyone that bothers you

nt

[youthere]

25. Hell for me...thanks.

[Danieljay]

38. People like that are mentally ill, no question about it. n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

45. "Okay, but who will you ogle in the afterlife?"

I don't mind street preachers but I have no tolerance for preacher hecklers.

[YOY]

49. That's when I start masturbating

Oh I mean masticating...my chewing gum...loudly.

[TlalocW]

51. These guys were my main source of entertainment on Fridays at Oklahoma State

I did some grad work there before I got tired of school and wanted a job.

The first guy showed up the Friday of the first week because the student activities group had brought in a palm reader as part of the opening week activities. He basically called us all spiritual whoremongers.

The second guy only showed up once. His main thing was homosexuals. I asked him to explain why homosexuality appears in other animals, and some animals can even change their sex. Since God must have made them like this since they have no souls to sin against (in his belief system), could we consider it immoral for animals then? He was quiet for about 10 seconds while his synapses burned then told me the reason for it was that God had given man dominion over the Earth, and man's sin covered the Earth, affecting everything on it. I yelled back, "So what you're saying is that there are two gay monkeys in Africa right now, going at it, and it's humans' fault?" He chose to ignore me after that, but every now and then I would yell, "Tell us about the gay monkeys, damn it!" After that, people on campus would frequently yell at me, "Hey, gay monkey man!" and years later at a speech given by James Randi in Tulsa, some people came up to me and asked, "Aren't you Gay Monkey Man?" That got a weird look from Randi who was setting up.

The third guy was a regular and was there almost every Friday. Amongst his claims were that he never sinned anymore and could walk on water if he wanted to. He really didn't like me because I would argue with him and do things to tick him off. Plus I tried to incite the crowd to grab him and carry him over to the campus pond to test his water walking claim, and he looked scared that we were going to do it.

He also believed that women who didn't cover up were going to hell because, "If a man looks at a woman with lust in his heart, he turns her into a whore." He was very near me when he said that so I turned to this cute blonde next to me and loudly and profusely apologized to everyone's delight (except his) and then I kind of faded off and just stared at her breasts then snapped out of it with a, "Damn it! Did it again!" He called me a whoremonger. Another time, he was talking about the evils of all types of music and dancing, and I saw a Latina friend walking to class. I was a member of the Latin Dancing and Cultural Club, and she used to own a discoteca in Argentina so dancing was her life. I called her over to where I was and distracted her by asking her to show me the Salsa pass she had been trying to teach me. So we started dancing, and the guy went apeshit and started yelling - mainly at her. My friend was confused for a few seconds then figured it out and started laughing and then mocking the guy in Spanish.

TlalocW

[Occulus]

59. .

:rofl:

[ThomCat]

61. I wish we had a few people like you on campus while I was there.

That would have been a riot to watch. :)

I volunteered for years as a pro-choice escort so I concentrated my attention on the anti-abortion protests. Until recently, I ignored all the general preaching. I guess I never saw the entertainment value. :P

[TlalocW]

87. After I left to go work

I looked at the campus' online newspaper for mention of the guy, and I found an article about another grad student who had taken to dressing up and going out and competing against him, claiming he wanted to, "Save students' souls and validate their parking."

TlalocW

[Lilith Velkor]

66. "If a man looks at a woman with lust in his heart, he turns her into a whore."

Oh, so THAT'S where the psycho-feminists get it! :think:

[ThomCat]

68. Wha?

:shrug:

I've never heard any feminist say anything even remotely like that.

[Lilith Velkor]

85. That's true, psycho-Christians at least recognize women as individuals

A psycho-feminist considers a lustful look from a male as turning *all* women into whores.

Please note the "psycho-" prefix, added because this characterization does not apply to all (or even most) feminists.

[TlalocW]

86. No feminist has but...

Matthew 5:28 says that if you look upon a woman with lust has committed adultery with her in his heart. The evangelists just prefer to put the blame and the responsibility on the woman because, of course, if they were dressing more modestly, men could control their lust so it's their fault, the sluts.


TlalocW

[Jed Dilligan]

67. I used to throw pennies at them

When they complained I would say I had converted and I was donating to their cause.

Once I hit the guy right in the crotch. Dude standing in front of me turned around and said, "Did you just hit him in the dick? I could no sooner split an atom!"

25 cents went a lot further on the quad than in the video arcade.

[Annces]

54. Definitely misogynistic

I have been around men who condemned women across the board. I think it is some kind of mental problem where women become the focus of all life's problems, or they really buy into the fundamentalism of the bible. Some people are just really challenged by complexities.

[ThomCat]

75. It was such blatant, horrible misogyny

that women on the train were shocked into discussing it. "Why are we responsible for his lust! Why do men think we should be to blame if they don't control themselves?"

It was nice to see it recognized for what it was. I hope the other guys on the train paid attention. :)

[MuseRider]

57. Yes

the Phelps clan. I ignore them because you can't argue with them. There is no logic behind their thoughts, only hatred.

:hi: Sounds like loads of fun being stuck on the subway with this kind of thing.

[ThomCat]

60. Oh, that's right.

The Phelps fools are in your back yard. :puke:

:hi:
I don't envy you having to deal with those fools. I hope you're never forced to be a captive audience. :(

[MuseRider]

71. Thankfully I can get away

where you cannot :(. I have to walk through them every time I perform and that can be a mess but mostly I can just ignore them.

OT We finally got moved in, I have been meaning to write to you since we left NYC. One of these days expect a big message :), if we ever get this thing complete! I miss NYC. I really loved it and my host, dear Thom, was the greatest!

[ThomCat]

72. I really hope you have a chance to come back

and we can hang out again. :hug:

[MuseRider]

79. Oh we will be back

I can tell you that for certain. Either when my boys move there or just to have fun. It really is the worlds city. I can't wait. :hug:

[TlalocW]

92. My fun with the Phelps people

http://colddaypontooning.blogspot.com/2007/04/fun-with-fred-phelps.html

TlalocW

[MuseRider]

94. LOL

My favorite part, "I started juggling and gave them one of my "weirder" smiles."

I can just picture that somehow and the looks on their faces. Yup, take their attention away and they get bored real easily don't they?

My guess is they don't really hate anyone but are just too miserable to figure out that they are their own worst enemies.

[ThomCat]

95. OMG! You tried using Logic!

:rofl:

I'm sure his head hurt after that.

[annabanana]

117. Great story. You sound like a fun guy

to just like, follow down the street and watch.

[guitar man]

63. That's what tasers are for

Taze him, Taze him!!

[ThomCat]

77. Rule #1 of dealing with religious wack jobs:

Don't turn them into Martyrs. If they suffer in any way, then they gain legitimacy. Mocking them, humiliating them, and ignoring them are the best tactics. :)

[guitar man]

83. yeah, but

mocking, humiliating, ignoring and not allowing them to put the 10 commandments in public buildings and bibles in the classroom is "persecution" to these types.

[ThomCat]

84. May they never again in their history ever find out what real

persecution feels like. I wouldn't wish persecution on anyone. But it would be nice if they would recognize how privilaged they really are. Aren't they supposed to be counting their blessings or something? :)

[guitar man]

88. amen

You're right, they really don't have any idea how good they have it in this country, but from the way so many of them whine, you'd think they were being flogged.

[spoony]

114. If only DUers were capable of doing any of those three things capably

In particular I'd enjoy ignoring. Or at least confining these little "aren't we superior and aren't they silly" threads to their appropriate cellar.

[Javaman]

69. Damn, I miss the subway. It's a regular parade of unending entertainment.

My favorite subway incident was watching two very well dress men straight off of wall street, trying to beat each other up via kung fu. It was down right hysterical!

[Cleita]

73. Are you sure this guy was a preacher?

He sounds to me like a plain old-fashioned nut job.

[ThomCat]

76. Definitely not a professional preacher, if that's what you mean.

Definitely a nutjob taking it upon himself to preach the word of god as he believes it.

[Dorian Gray]

78. As a New Yorker....

IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE! I barely notice these yahoos on the trains anymore. I either have my I-Pod on or am reading a book/magazine.

[Warren DeMontague]

82. Unfortunately, this weird anti-sex attitude is a very prevalent form of mental illness.

And it manifests itself in all kinds of fucked up, controlling behaviors. Everything from religious mania to delusions to demands for censorship of materials by and for consenting adults.

To some, semi-clad women, naked women, and pictures of consenting adults fucking are a "threat" that need to be "dealt with".

:crazy:, I know.

[ThomCat]

90. I so want to comment

on the idea of religious beliefs and mental illness, but that'll definitely get deleted. Oh my. :P

Let me just say that I think you've touched upon some important ideas.

[Aristus]

93. She should have flashed the guy.

:evilgrin:

[ismnotwasm]

96. I know a church

I'm thinking about visiting. This particular church, if a woman comes in wearing a skirt, a member will come over and offer a towel to "cover" their legs. This particular church also has some wack-job idea about "out breeding" the non-believers (I'm not making this up)and requires the women, when ever possible to stay home and have babies. This particular church started out with one church, has expanded and now has a building--a beautiful brick building in a high rent district downtown, as some sort of school or seminary.

Why am I thinking about visiting? I would just love for somebody to come over and tell ME I need to cover up anything. I haven't worn shorter skirts in years but I'd do it just this once. I'd probably be asked to leave given my manner of expressing myself when indignant. Certainly I'll be condemned to hell. Or something. (I probably won't do it but I'm sooo tempted)

[leftynyc]

99. Please don't do it

It's the same thing as the right wing whack jobs that want to cut off a pigs head and lay it at the door of a mosque just because they hate what's going on inside. These people aren't asking or forcing you to join them in prayer. Please just leave them be.

[ismnotwasm]

100. Like I said

I probably won't. I know two sisters, one who was involved, and one who wasn't. The one who wasn't involved already did show up in a skirt, and politely told them "I don't need that". They didn't insist.

I do want to say, this is not a benign church, and although agnostic, I'm not anti-religion. The founders prey on the spiritually vulnerable, and the ones too weak and tired to find their own way or the dispossessed. They use spiritual principles as a sort of pop psychology. They have cult-like tactics that frighten me. On one hand, they are ridiculous, my hope is this a passing "fad" religion and will go away. On the other hand, there are new right wing churches popping up all over the place that seem to have similar agenda's, if not so extreme.

I have a friend, who is a young earther, who believes the bible is the living and inerrant word of God, minister and arch conservative. I give him the freedom for his beliefs, and he no doubt thinks I'll be saved or go to hell someday, but he gives me the same freedom. He practices his faith in a manner that is admirable, as far as what I understand Christianity to be about. I find him and his church far less frightening than I do these people.

[Chovexani]

107. I had a preacher man on the #2 train carry on about gays once

Late one night, my then-girlfriend and I were coming back home on the #2 from a goth club and this crazy ass West Indian guy started carrying on about homosexuals and how they were destroying the black family. Now anyone that's ever run into one of these batshit fundies on the train knows that they usually only carry on for a couple of stops, three at most, and then they get off. This bastard got on the train at Atlantic Avenue and after four stops it was clear he wasn't going anywhere. We were set to just laugh him off, as exhausted from a night of partying as we were, but then he started in about how black lesbians were even worse than black gay men, because it was our duty to find a strong black man and breed strong black babies so to further the race. We were the worst traitors in his opinion. We were evil Satanic harpies whose goal was to destroy the black family.

I will set this up by saying my girlfriend Michelle was downright Aryan: fair-skinned, tall, blonde hair (at the time she'd bleached it white), ice blue eyes. Fucking gorgeous. She waits until preacher man walks directly in front of where we were sitting, and shouts: "I LOVE MY NUBIAN PRINCESS!" and frenches me. Lots of tongue.

Preacher man was stunned into silence and ran to the next car, to the applause of the other folks sitting around us.

I guess the point of all this is I think mockery is the best way to handle those fuckers. :)

[ThomCat]

109. Chovexani, you are awesome!

And so is your girlfriend, Michelle. :rofl:

[Chovexani]

110. Poking crazy people is a personal hobby of mine

I used to pass out recipes for clam chowder to the Scientologists who always hang out in the Times Square station. :evilgrin:

[Katherine Brengle]

113. At least your fellow passengers didn't agree with him --

at least not out loud anyway.

I have a hard time on the train when I'm in NYC - I know what to do (ignore) but it's easier said than done when you aren't used to seeing/hearing it every day.

[KurtNYC]

122. I do my best to ignore them but if they are attacking someone

who can't defend themselves then I will speak up and tell them to back off, as will other NYers. The subway is always a study in group dynamics.

I seem to see more of these types when I ride the 7 or other trains into Queens -- angry Caribean women yelling at everyone and no one about the "blood of Jesus. And then there is the woman who screams in the mornings near the steps between the red line and the shuttle under Times Square. I guess I missed the part of the Bible where Jesus says: "Go ye into the subways and scream at everyone."

[iconoclastic cat]

123. I'm going with mental illness on this one. nt