Senate overrides veto of school-silence bill

[shain from kane]

The Associated Press


SPRINGFIELD, Ill. --The Illinois Senate has bucked Gov. Rod Blagojevich and approved a required moment of silence in public schools.
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Blagojevich vetoed the measure, saying it violated the Constitution's ban on mixing religion with public institutions.

Current law allows teachers to ask pupils to pause. Critics say requiring silence would take time away from learning and possibly coerce prayer.

The measure moves to the House, where it passed 86-26 in May. If the House overrides the veto, it becomes law immediately.
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Next on the agenda ---- 2 minutes of hate.

[ticapnews]

1. A moment of silence is not long enough...

In order to pay homage to my God, I need at least 1:45 to microwave my macaroni and cheese, and a couple of minutes to worship eat it.

[Ilsa]

2. I simply don't get why people want to abdicate teaching their kids

their religious beliefs to the public schools. It makes no sense.

[DefenseLawyer]

3. It's about reminding "nonbelievers" who is in charge

that is what it has always been about.

[atreides1]

5. Because

If something goes wrong and little Johnny ends up in a tower with a rifle, mom and dad can blame the school system!;)

[spartan61]

4. Good for the Illinois State Senate!!

We had a moment of silence each morning where I taught in the State of Connecticut. (State mandated.) I am a firm believer of the separation of church and state, but I can see no conflict with a moment of silence. How can a few seconds (about 30 seconds) take away from learning??? What takes away from learning is the NCLB crap. I taught for 28 years in Connecticut and not once did any parent complain that it coerced prayer, even though there were many religions represented in my classes, as well as families who had no religion. What a crock from those critics in Illinois.

[DefenseLawyer]

6. What was the purpose?

I believe you when you say no one complained, but what was the stated purpose for requiring a "moment of silence"? Was it educational?

[Squatch]

8. What's the harm?

If everybody's just being silent for a moment, they could be praying to the Christian God or Vishnu. Or, they could just be sitting there meditating on who knows what, or just taking a quick power nap.

Frankly, I would have enjoyed a moment of silence...just to get my thoughts together for the upcoming day.

[spartan61]

10. Exactly!!! nt

[atreides1]

7. And what pray tell

Is the relevance for that moment of silence?

When I was school we said the Pledge of Allegiance and sang America and Hawaii Pono'i, but no moment of silence.

[Squatch]

9. The relevance is whatever the (silent) student wants the relevance to be.

:shrug:

[NMMNG]

11. I'm an atheist

And even I can't see how simply requiring silence could possibly "coerce prayer", and the notion that a mere 30 seconds takes time away from learning is absurd.


But as to the idea of prayer anyway, the children have plenty of time to pray. They're out of school 18 hours a day plus weekends. Then during school they can pray between classes, during lunch, during study periods, etc. There's really not a need for a specific time for it, if one is truly inclined to pray.

[DefenseLawyer]

17. It is still almost always put forth by prayer in school advocates

Why do you think that is the case if it has no religious purpose? It's because is almost always presented as a time to "pray", if you want. Now you don't have to, you can do what you want, but we're all going to pray now. You can sit there and be different while the rest of us take this opportunity to pray to the Lord our God. It's all voluntary, but if you want to pray now, like the rest of us, that would be great.
I go back to my original statement, the only purpose for a moment of silence is that it is as close to prayer as the prayer advocates can get, and it is an opportunity to show the nonbelievers who runs the rodeo.

[spoony]

12. Separation of silence and state!

Constant noise in our schools, or else the Silentists win! :P

[shain from kane]

15. My granddaughter told me that she only had 2 minutes for recess for the other day. She told

me that she got penalized for 13 minutes for continuing to talk in class. She's a little chatterbox. What would the appropriate punishment be for talking during the 30 seconds of silence? Would it depend on the subject matter of the conversation?

[spoony]

19. She should have more recess

It's inhumane to make kids sit inside without some time to play. That said, I would wonder why anyone could literally not be silent for thirty seconds. What would she do during a test? Or whilst the teacher's talking?

[valerief]

13. Just what public schools need. More &#$@ religion. nt

[Akoto]

14. I don't necessarily think it's religious, but what's the point?

What does a few moments of silence do for the students? If it's brief enough that it doesn't interrupt learning, why is it significant enough to have at all?

[Solly Mack]

16. but what if I don't want to observe the silence?

Seriously? Will I be made to stand outside the classroom during this moment of silence?

[tomg]

18. Actually, as a teacher I

think a few moments of silence before a class are great. Sometimes I even remember to do it. I teach college and my wife teaches middle school where I think it might even be more needed. Students come into my classes and the last thing they have on their minds is learning, reflecting, thinking. They are screwing with their cell phones, bullshitting with each other, grabbing coffee, whatever. They are mentally moving pretty fast.

Suddenly, there is one, maybe two minutes where they gather themselves, slow it all down, in a sense move out of the pressure and speed. It is a kind of collective deep breath. They ground themselves.

I say the above as an agnostic, and as one who supports the complete separation of Church and State. I also greatly doubt that the Illinois Senate was even vaguely interested in any educational benefits - direct or otherwise - that might come from such a moment of silence. And I know it is also one hell of a slippery slope.

I'm just saying that as a teacher I sometimes like it when I can get my students mentally to shift gears.