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It's not imaginary. The progressive majority of Americans HAVE been abandoned.

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:29 PM
Original message
It's not imaginary. The progressive majority of Americans HAVE been abandoned.
The following article appeared in the July 9th iss of 'The Nation' magazine, yet received little or no notice on DU. Liberals and progressives, the heart of the America mainstream, have been marginalized and betrayed by their elected representatives for over 27 years. I've watched this myself, having no blindered loyalties to the corporations that present themselves as the national political parties.



Will the Progressive Majority Emerge?

by RICK PERLSTEIN
(from the July 9, 2007 issue)

For as long as I can remember, there's been a generally accepted story about the recent history of Democratic Party fortunes, a neat little morality tale that goes something like this: The New Deal majority fell apart when the party was taken over by forces outside the mainstream of American life. Getting blindsided by Reaganism was the party's just deserts. And if Democrats wanted the country back, they would just have to learn to become mainstream again.

For as long as I can remember, liberals have been complaining about awkward, self-conscious attempts to recover this "mainstream" sensibility and how they have paradoxically weakened the party. They forced Democratic politicians to become obsessed with polls. That, in turn, boxed Democrats into an identity the public--the mainstream--found the most off-putting of all: Democrats became timid. They couldn't pursue a bold public agenda because they were too hemmed in by polls. Very recently, among progressives, a new dictum has emerged: Hug close to the polls, worship the polls, be the polls.

Trends in Political Values and Core Attitudes: 1987-2007, a massive twenty-year roundup of public opinion from the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, tells the story. Is it the responsibility of government to care for those who can't take care of themselves? In 1994, the year conservative Republicans captured Congress, 57 percent of those polled thought so. Now, says Pew, it's 69 percent. (Even 58 percent of Republicans agree. Would that some of them were in Congress.) The proportion of Americans who believe government should guarantee every citizen enough to eat and a place to sleep is 69 percent, too--the highest since 1991. Even 69 percent of self-identified Republicans--and 75 percent of small-business owners!--favor raising the minimum wage by more than $2.

The Pew study was not just asking about do-good, something-for-nothing abstractions. It asked about trade-offs. A majority, 54 percent, think "government should help the needy even if it means greater debt" (it was only 41 percent in 1994). Two-thirds want the government to guarantee health insurance for all citizens. Even among those who otherwise say they would prefer a smaller government, it's 57 percent--the same as the percentage of Americans making more than $75,000 a year who believe "labor unions are necessary to protect the working person."

<snip>

You suspected it all along. Now it just might be true: Most Americans think like you. Nearly two-thirds think corporate profits are too high (30 percent, Pew notes, "completely agree with this statement...the highest percentage expressing complete agreement with this statement in 20 years"). Almost three-quarters think "it's really true that the rich just get richer while the poor get poorer," eight points more than thought so in 2002.

If only there was an American political party that unwaveringly reflected these views, as a matter of bone-deep identity. You might think it would do pretty well. Which leads to the aspect of the Pew study that got the most ink: "Political Landscape More Favorable to Democrats," as the subtitle put it. When you compare Americans who either identify themselves as Democrats or say they lean toward the Democrats with Republicans and Republican leaners, our side wins by fifteen points, 50 percent to 35, the most by far in twenty years. As recently as 2002 it was a tie, 43 to 43.

<snip>

Here's a riddle: What's an "independent"? More and more, it's an American who holds positions we associate with Democrats but who refuses to call himself by the name. Why? Part of the reason is that people say to themselves, "If only there was a party that thought like me--that was for harnessing the power of government to help the needy and protect the middle class; for reining in business excess; for fighting overseas threats through soft power instead of reckless force." But they don't find today's Democrats answering to the description. A Washington Post/ABC News poll published in early June proved it on Iraq: It heralded the emergence of what might be called "antiwar independents," who'd like nothing more than to find a party determined to end the war but don't see enough difference between Congressional Republicans and Democrats for the latter to earn their loyalty. Fueled, the Post suspects, by the failure of Congress to change course in Iraq, independents gave Congressional Democrats a 49 percent approval rating in April but only 37 percent in June.

The pattern--Democrats losing because they don't look enough like Democrats--is nothing new: During the 2002 election Democrats did such a poor job of selling themselves as better protectors of middle-class interests that Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research found only 34 percent of voters saw a difference between Democrats and Republicans on prescription drug benefits to seniors. That year, when the party was handed a once-in-a-generation shot to prove itself as a protector against runaway greed (the corporate accounting scandals), DNC chair Terry McAuliffe called the swindling firm Global Crossing a "great company."

<more>


Read it. Believe it.

While you're at it, read "The Progressive Majority: Why a Conservative America Is a Myth."

So, as the partisans fling themselves into the habitual "you're either with us or you're with the ___" Mafia meme, let's try to remember: it's suicidal. When the "leadership" (under the cover of either one of the labels in the "two-party" system) finds itself so wholly and irrevocably unresponsive to the majority of the people - who they dismiss, demean, marginalize, and ignore - we can and will see catastrophic results. When the 'system' itself becomes immune to change, it will be destroyed. Sooner or later. (Hopefully sooner - rather than prolong the misery.)

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. I see the same damn 6 foot rabbit.
Increasingly, we just seem to be in the way except at tax time or at campaiagn fundraising time.

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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. yep--and they say directly here sometime: 'shut up and trust us'
We'll screw you, but we'll be gentler than the GOP.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. I've tried to say as much for a long time...
The problem with a lot of average folks who DON'T vote ISN'T apathy...it's disenchantment. The problem isn't "all politicians are the same," but that the ones that aren't dissimilar enough seem to be in charge. And people KNOW it. They can see it.

Of course, saying stuff like that gets you jumped around here, but the truth is the truth.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. It's the media, too. Check this out:
Peter Coyote is hosting a wonderful documentary on Howard Zinn on LinkTV. In one of his segments, Peter wonders why no one is on the streets for impeachment -- and, at length.

That was filmed here in San Francisco -- where we've been on the street for impeachment for MONTHS with little coverage.

And, the host making these statements isn't among the corporati, it's PETER COYOTE, for pete's sake, one of the stalwarts of the independent media.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. That certainly doesn't help...
It's like they're wearing selective blinders.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. The doc is being aired over and over and so are Peter's remarks.
Edited on Wed Oct-03-07 07:04 PM by sfexpat2000
And, as I'm working to get our attendance up, I'm hating it! It's so discouraging.

I did email the station but who knows if anyone even reads the mail.

/oops
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
50. That is disturbing, isn't it.
Edited on Wed Oct-03-07 09:48 PM by truedelphi
Once he was out there with Diggers, feeding the poor.

I guess you get isolated being in a sound booth doing voice overs.

I know he tries to keep informed. But there has to be a divide when so much of your life is off in the glory halls of movie making.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I've posted to their forum.
It may be nothing more than the burn out that we all experience at times. But, they are airing his comments over and over. :(
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november3rd Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
97. Media
People today don't appreciate what an isolating force tv has been for our society. Cars, too.

The one freedom we can never be totally deprived of by oppressors is the freedom to pay attention to whatever we want.

However, if we just pay attention to what our oppressors want us to, we give up the freedom to live now for our own values.

I'm not that old, but I remember spending a lot of time with other people when I was a kid, not much time silently taking in movies and tv shows. Even then, it was shredding the fabric of our communities. But now, everybody's attention is so fragmented from the world we share into the little pieces of the worlds we escape to, that we are all like aliens to each other. Nobody knows what anybody else is really doing, we don't trust each other to do the right, conscientious things, and we wouldn't believe anybody who told us they were doing the right thing without basing their actions on something they heard on television, like, "Support the troops."
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november3rd Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
98. check out
citizens of the empire, by robert jensen.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. I fully agree.
Most folks are, at heart, progressives -- especially for themselves -- but MANY are told that's spelled "r-e-p-u-b-l-i-c-a-n" and that "conservatives" are in favor of conserving. Blind association with a poltical party impels many to merely collect the talking points and short-circuit their poltical thinking with memes - without actually examining the corporatization of the political establishment and consignment of voters to pastures, corrals, and sheering booths.

BOTH parties just LOVE to pretend that "independent" means somewhere IN-BETWEEN the two parties. That's total fucking nonsense! All anyone needs to do is look at the "Gang of Fourteen" to understand that there's NO ROOM between the two parties! None!
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. "Independent" most likely means
"I think they're all a bunch of thieving bastards, except for maybe a few of them."

You know what I hear when I talk to the apolitical? "They don't represent ME. They'll say anything to get my vote, but, in the end, they do whatever they want to do...whatever benefits THEM."

Of course, my argument is that the only way to affect that is to get involved, but a lot of people don't see it as doing any good. They think the whole political process is too corrupted to be viable. Right or wrong, that's their impression.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. As a committed independent liberal myself, I lose patience with such folks.
It's a cop-out.

Just like claiming one's self to be "middle of the road." It's a cop-out. Political cowardice. Go along to get along.

When I'm able to exercise patience and am afforded the time to do so, I'm often able to shine a light for them on why they're hurting themselves. But it takes a "tip-toeing through the tulips" walk through a minefield of memes and trigger rhetoric.

When I criticize the administraion or voice support for Kucinich (or sometimes Edwards) or other liberals, Im either accused or asked if I'm a Democrat. I usually answer that I wouldn't join a poltical party even if I was paid. It seems to help.

:evilgrin:
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progpen Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Wow, well said and spot on.
I could not have said it better.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
79. Excellent points
If only they were listening.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R A kick for the truth. Thank you. n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. Well done.
Very good post. This is the type of OP/thread that makes DU a great place to be. It is also the type of information that we should be using as a tool as we build the foundations of the real democratic party, from the grass-roots up.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. The majority may think
like us but the bully pulpit, dlc, and the whorepress will keep at it until they win or they're politically dead.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. The problem as always is the Electoral System.
It is rigged to maintain the two domineering parties.

The Electoral System

Repeal the 12th amendment, reforming the electoral college, standardizing party qualifications in the states, qualified and free access to public airwaves.

1.Uniform Ballot Access
2.Loosen Third Party Ballot Restrictions
3.Universal Voter Registration
4.Election Day Holiday
5.Equal Media Access/Debate Inclusion
6.Instant Runoff Voting (IRV)
7.Secure Voting Machines
8.Public Campaign Financing
9.Direct Popular Vote Election of the President
10.Congressional Representation


But the Commission on Presidential Debates -- set up 13 years ago by the two major parties and amply funded by large corporations -- knows what's best for its backers. The commission is insisting on a strict 15-percent-in-the-polls threshold for participation, a requirement that seems sure to limit the debates to Bush and Gore.

Despite its civic-minded pose, the commission has always been looking out for the interests of the Democratic and Republican parties. It arrived on the political scene in 1987 to hijack the nation's presidential debates -- while ousting the nonpartisan League of Women Voters, a group viewed by the major parties' hierarchies as insufficiently subservient to their desires. At the outset, a New York Times headline got it right: "Democrats and Republicans Form Panel to Hold Presidential Debates."
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. that sounds a lot like how it breaks down on DU. See this poll I did a couple years back:
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. It's one of the DU myths to call ourselves "exceptional" ...
... but I really don't believe that. Only in the interest we have and the attention we give to political events are we at all different from our friends and neighbors. Many, lacking the information base that comes from such interest and attention, have a self-image that's fed by their antipathy to the majority. So, they call themselves 'conservative' and behave like at-risk teenagers.

We even see the vestiges of such media myths on DU ... constantly claiming the we somehow have to accommodate some vast untapped reservoir of "disgruntled voters on the right" ... while that merely feeds the abandonment of the values and principles to which we, in overwhelming numbers, adhere.

It really gets sad sometimes. I can find almost no other reason for the abundant tolerance for right-wing, corporatist supporters among our elected politicians and 'candidates.'
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. what they mean is appease the corporations lest they be angry with thee and smite thee
from the Texas Schoolbook Depository.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. It's pathetic! Screw pandering
to idiots who have no principles other than looking out for a fetus who they abandon once it's out of the womb. They want those fetus' for their so-called "Christian" Cannon Fodder.

In reality they are no more Christian than people like me who don't do dogma but we don't get into other people's lives and we Don't kill people in the guise of war for buSHITS' OIL and spreading the word of DEATH.
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diva77 Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. Congress has become privatized. Not accountable to us little people anymore.
Edited on Wed Oct-03-07 06:42 PM by diva77
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. We have to get corporate money out of our elections
and now that it's a year round industry, I have no clue how we'll ever get that done.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. corporate money must exit every area where the public health and welfare is at stake
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. you must be some wyld eyed progressive!?! -- hey -- so am i!
recommend.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
18. I feel it every day, with every decision made. nt
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. Kick! I t's amazing the stuff that doesn't get ATTENTION on DU these Days..
but, then, I know the DU "Full Caps Patrol" are gonna come after me for this...if they don't just ignore me so my post is Deep Sixed into Oblivion. :D

Anyway...A Kick!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. There's too many fires every day.
:(
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #24
81. too many , my friend
peace and low stress
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Well, we just got a new toilet.
:evilgrin:

A bit higher than average, with an elongated bowl, and a padded seat, and a quiet flush. We needed it. Really. The old one was (not an outhouse but) over fifty years old.

I'm now enjoying the "library" a bit more and get to read through my stack of "The Nation" magazines. I find it's ideal for the Contemplation Room.

I've been intending to post somthing about this particular article for a few weeks ... but I wanted to wait for the latest "bright shiney thing" to go away and deal with the Political Compass (updated from my old DU survey) as a way of 'preparing' folks for this. Nothing is perfect, including the PC. But it's a fairly good template for discussion. So this article is my "Phase II" of provoking some calm (non-tinfoil) thought in this direction.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. OMG! ROFL!

I'm now enjoying the "library" a bit more and get to read through my stack of "The Nation" magazines. I find it's ideal for the Contemplation Room.

One of the funniest pieces I've read on DU in years....for it's subtlety!

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Well, I can't help thinking about DU
... as I sit upon the throne and read "The Nation." It's ... symmetry. :rofl:

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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. You can say that again and again. - n/t
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
28. That's it in a nutshell and very well said
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
29. So, I really am NOT a leftist whackjob??
I am so confused! :crazy:

seriously TN, thank you for the FACTS.

:hug:
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. no, you're still a leftist whackjob.
There's just an awful lot of us. :D
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Puppy Pile!!
:grouphug:


(I looove puppy-piles.)
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
45. pitbulls, of course.
:hi:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. LWJM!
the Leftist Whack Job Majority!

they are us and We Rock! :)
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. I see a bracelet campaign in our future.
;)
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. You can be what you want to be.
I want to be like a nut. :silly:

:hug:
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
32. Recommended
:applause:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
34. My husband fits very neatly into the article's categorization of "independent."
He's an Indian immigrant who was exposed to too much Limbaugh when he arrived.

I can't convince him to register Dem and I honor his wishes, but I am beginning to make him understand that if we really want change that he's better off to join me as a Dem and work for change within the party, BUT...

After so many years of being used, then abandoned by my party, I'm nearly at the "to hell with it" stage as well.

The Kyl/Lieberman vote just about tipped me over the edge and I have nothing left to cling to.

Now it's the issues I work for--I can't count on the party to represent me on those either.

I'm disgusted and very, very sad.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
37. The chants to the capital should be Stop stealing from us and lying to us you motherfuckers.
They are not above being taken down.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
38. Many have been" triangulated" into believing "not as bad" is good enough. K&R
It's a formula for, at best, stagnation. We are endlessly told by the politicians that we should "lower our expectations", accept that they "are doing their best", that they are bound by the "realities of politics", that they are helpless victims of a corrupt system that they defend and perpetuate.

We are told by their supporters that we should be "realistic" and accept less, expect less, and "work from the inside" by being silent partners in the corruption. We are told that change is impossible because we have a 2 party system and that it is our only choice.

It is the voice of those who told the slaves that they should be happy with their lot.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.



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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #38
52. If not as bad is good enough
Edited on Wed Oct-03-07 09:49 PM by truedelphi
Then twice as sad is happy.
And four times gloom offers a lot more room,
So no big need to think it through
and wake yourself from nappy.

And war is peace
And death is life
The shoes with holes at least
once sold as shoes
Though rain will tickle your feet
And cold will bring you sniffles

But since illness is health
And poverty wealth
And dumbness is brilliance without compare

The coward won't dare
And the brave don't care
And all that matters is what you wear!
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
39. ..
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Many people talk about a Third Party for Progressives.
Uh...there is one already called the Green Party. If all Progressives joined that party is is highly likely that Greens could be voted into Congress.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #41
58. I agree
but so many progressives are angry at the Greens for Ralph Nader.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
42. K&R. (nt)
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
43. What the hell are you thinking?!?! You're attacking the Orthodoxy!!!!
Oh man, what a drag. I'm gonna hafta deny that I ever knew you...

Me: Tahiti-what?

Partisan Police: You know damn well who we mean!

Me: No! No! Never heard of whoever that is! And I've NEVER been to Tahiti!

Partisan Police: We don't care about that. We already know that you are a nut-sympathizer.

Me: No! Not me! I really LOVES me some sensible centrism! Really!

Partisan Police: Hah! It is too late for your pathetic denials! It's off to the re-education camps with you!

Me: Nooooooo...!


Thanks alot.

sw

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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. LOL!
:thumbsup:
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. Sometimes you feel like a nut ...


Sometimes you just feel like climbing a tree. :shrug:


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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #48
60. And sometimes you climb a tree because you feel like a nut.
:P
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
49. "If only there was an American political party that unwaveringly reflected these views... "
Wouldn't THAT be something???

:evilfrown:
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
53. Isn't it sad.
I wonder for how many years? Just Bush? Since Reagan? Since WWII? Since the Civil War?

Just how far back does the deception go?

:kick:
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WizardTN Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
54. We The People
ATTENTION:
Mr. President and Members of Congress.
Be you Democrats, Republicans, Independents or, any other flavor of politician.


We the People ... Sent you a message at the election last November.
You ... Did not listen.

We the People ... Voted in the polls over the previous months.
You ... Have not listened.

We the People ... Have shown repeatedly that your approval rating stinks.
You ... Are still not listening.

We the People ... Must regretfully conclude that you have no intention of listening.
You ... Seem not to care what we desire.

THEREFORE:

We the People ... Who are the activists who volunteer our time to your campaigns.
We the People ... Who contribute freely of our talents to you.
We the People ... Who donate our MONEY to further your chosen profession.
We the People ... Are now forced to turn our time, resources and MONEY in another direction.

BECAUSE:

You ... Choose to disregard us. Choose to make light of our contributions.
You ... Have forgotten that we are the activists that vote in the primaries.
You ... Ignore the fact that we help promote Get Out The Vote campaigns.
You ... Take our MONEY and then do as you please.

BE IT RESOLVED:

We the People ... Will no longer give of our time, resources and MONEY to support you.
We the People ... Will turn you out at the next Primary or General Election.
We the People ... Are sick and tired of your actions or non-actions, as the case may be.

UNLESS:

You ... Show us that you are listening to us. Remember us? We the People?
You ... Do it decisivly, without nuance, without dissembling.
You ... Stop putting your petty partican politics in front of our desires.

YOU THINK ABOUT IT:

We the People ... Produced this ad. It took time. It took resources and talents. It takes MONEY to run it.
You .. Did NOT get any of that. Will you continue to "Not Get It?"

WE THE PEOPLE ... Have spoken. Are speaking again. Will continue to speak.
YOU ... Have a choice. 1: To listen. or 2: To not listen. Pick one.

STOP THE WAR IN IRAQ ... NOW.

WE THE PEOPLE ... Are Watching.
WE THE PEOPLE ... Will be back.

http://Citizens4.US/WTP.swf
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
55. But, but, but we are told to just fall in line
shut up and just wave party flags...

And never, EVER question the leadership

After all its a fucking game and our team is winning

Thanks...

At least I am not the only one saying that
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
56. Hey, I was just going to ask how many of us are out there in the wilderness
So, we make up about 69 % of the population. Is that right?!?

Let's get together then. What's stopping us?

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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #56
69. M-O-N-E-Y
and power.

They've got it, and they
will NOT give it up willingly.

It is ENTRENCHED.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
57. I've long that the Dems went wrong when they espoused conservative
economic principles while espousing liberal behavioral principles.

They managed to offend traditionalists while not offering them anything economically.

The Republicans paid lip service to their "traditional values" while screwing them over economically, but if one is not very reflective, it probably feels good to have one's behavioral values and prejudices praised.

I KNOW that the general public is ahead of the Dem establishment on health care. Everywhere I go, people are complaining about the insurance companies. Even people who bragged about their health insurance two years ago are finding that the insurance companies are pulling the rug out from under them.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. I think the term is "neo-liberal" economic policies.
Edited on Wed Oct-03-07 11:29 PM by TahitiNut
"Free trade" as a euphemism for deregulation and open borders for goods and capital (but not people). I've always espoused fiscal responsibility, but it's clear the neoconservatives have no compunction regarding massive debt passed on to next generations.

"Welfare reform" was an abomination and the torpedoing of Universal Health Care in the early 90s - already a decade too late - consigned us to more profiteering on human misery for another two decades or more.

The most cost-effective federal program ever enacted (by a single vote!) in the last 60 years was the WW2 GI Bill. The key was "trickle up" ... which forced enterprises to actually turn to the individual consumers for revenues rather than to government to remove competition (e.g. corporate fiefdoms like telcos) and for handouts (e.g. airlines, pro-sports). Federal Antitrust activities have virtually disappeared. The corporate media is but one example. The finance industry mergers and consolidations have wrought havoc on the economy.

The turnaround began in the mid-70s, as far as I can see, and accelerated in the 80s.
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NoGodsNoMasters Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. Well said, Tahiti.
The way I see it this is just status quo. I mean, like Noam Chomsky says even the supposed liberal democrats are generally far to the right of the American people. Theres' some quote by john kerry, not a bad man, no serious disrespect, but anyhow, it was during his campaigning back in the election where he said he wouldn't support national healthcare because most americans don't support it, again, I'm paraphrasing, but this elucidates the point. Democrats are WAY WAY behind they're constituents on social issues. Americans want national healthcare, higher minimum wage, better environmental laws and eco friendly technologies, they want new orleans fixed, they want an end to this goddamn war, they want the government to stop giving they're tax dollars to billionaires and multinationals, and they want to do something about human rights, nuclear proliferation, etc. Honestly Dennis Kucinich is closer to the average American than the mainstream candidates, but frankly, I don't think he has a prayer. There needs to be a change and I think it's gonna have to come from the bottom up if it comes at all, these people are, supposedly, our representatives, it's time they acted like it.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #59
63. The Dem Party veered to the right politically during Raygun's
1st term. Bush 1 was not in the Raygun mold & rejected Raygun's Voodoo Econ. Bill Clinton ushered in the
"Neo-Liberal" concept,triangulated & brought in NAFTA, Work-Fare, & expanded the Fairness Doctrine. The Left Wing of the Dem Party was ignored. Now it is even more ignored. Corps. have a major influence on both dominant parties. Money is the driving force for politicians. The Multi-Corps were given huge tax breaks for relocating their mfg., & outsourcing & in-sourcing were rewarded. Free trade mostly meant favorable breaks for other countries. The Upper Class benefited while the Middle Class, Working Poor & the Poor were downgraded. Lou Dobbs may be wrong about a few things but he is correct about The Class War. The Upper Class is winning with the aide of the dominant parties.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-03-07 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
61. Well, we need to replace these faux Democrats with real Democrats, ones that are liberals.
Ones that aren't scared of losing an election - remember Grover Cleveland?
Yet, he came back to serve a 2nd term in the White House. He didn't serve his terms consecutively, but he served 2 terms in the White House.

That's the kind of guts the Democratic party needs now.
Someone who is willing to do what is right, even though it may not be popular.

LBJ did the right thing when he pushed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 through Congress, and it cost him a 2nd term in the White House.
But, the Civil Rights Act had to happen, it was the right thing to do.

The problem with the Democrats today is that they are afraid of being called anti-military by asswipes like O'Reilly and Limbaugh.
Instead, they should stand up and proclaim themselves as being pro-peace, pro-humanitarian, pro-fiscal restraint - in other words - rational, thinking, human beings!

However, they simply cower, waiting for the polls to tell them what to do next.
They aren't leaders, they are figure heads; they look the part, but they can't act on their own.

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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
64. antiwar independents..
that so totally describes me.
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SlingBlade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 05:26 AM
Response to Original message
65. I agree with the header
of this post. We have been abandoned, they do not take us seriously.

So now what ?:banghead:
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againes654 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #65
75. They don't take us seriously
because they know when push comes to shove, we will vote Dem, no matter who or what the nominee stands for because it is the lesser of 2 evils.

Like Kucinich said, we don't have to get any kind of bill passed to stop the war, we just have to stop funding it. It seems so simple. We can't change the system in time for the next election, so I only see one choice. Refuse to vote for a candidate unless they are for REAL change. If we don't vote for them, and by we, I mean as many Democrats as possible, they can't win. We can pick who we send into the GE.
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SlingBlade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #75
77. That’s our position
Unfortunately that's true, We vote for the lesser of the two evils.
I’m so sick of holding my nose in the voters booth, I truly am and I’m positive that I’m not the only one.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
66. I really think that the current timidity of the Democrats on the hill is
because they are afraid of exposing who they really are. They are a hybrid party of conservative centrists and progressive liberals. They are afraid to act because they are not united. They may be more sensible than the GOP but they have no cohesiveness.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #66
85. Define current, please... n/t
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
67. Gettin' kind hard to walk dat ole Party Line, innit?
The majority of Americans are without representation in Congre$$.

K & R.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
68. Your premise is wrong. Our leaders are not "irrevocably unresponsive to the majority of the people."
You've been supping on the right-wing media again:

"President Bush's success rating in the Democratic-controlled House has fallen this year to a half-century low, and he prevailed on only 14 percent of the 76 roll call votes on which he took a clear position.

"So far this year, Democrats have backed the majority position of their caucus 91 percent of the time on average on such votes. That marks the highest Democratic unity score in 51 years."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1728952&mesg_id=1728952
http://public.cq.com/docs/cqt/news110-000002576765.html

Don't let the media rhetoric fool you. The Democrats have acquitted themselves quite well--especially given their bare majority in both houses, and a relentlessly obstructionist Republican minority.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #68
71. WHO's "supping on the right wing media?" I don't think it's Tahiti Nut
Edited on Thu Oct-04-07 08:07 AM by kenzee13
By the way, while you're looking at Pres Codpiece's ratings, take a look at Congress's. K&R for the OP.

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #68
78. Q.E.D.
Such are the rationalizations and rose-colored glasses worn by those who'd accommodate the status quo in the interests of partisan loyalty, imho. It merely confirms my choice to be a dedicated independent liberal, not just non-partisan but anti-partisan. I still believe the interests of the People should be far superior to the interests of the politicians. It is not my job to represent them - it's theirs to represent us. It is, I believe, fundamentally illiberal and antidemocratic to point a finger of blame at a citizen for his or her vote instead of at a politician for not deserving that vote.

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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #78
87. Ya know, I keep trying to reply to the replies,
but how can I when you make all the points I want to make?

at least I can:kick: & R


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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
70. GREAT article. Thanks for posting it.
I've emerged, and so have others. We're waiting for the rest of the progressive majority to join us, so that we can actually BE a majority.

:hi:
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
72. It's nice to feel that the insinutation that I'm not some "commie"
for wanting some basic progressive legislature passed is alive and well.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #72
76. Recent history (100 years) shows that the greatest antipathy for "commies" is from fascists.
Edited on Thu Oct-04-07 09:43 AM by TahitiNut
The political landscape in the U.S. in the 20s and 30s saw a great deal of sympathy for communism/Marxism on the part of working people and academics. At the same time, people in positions of authority and with wealth (often inherited) such as Charles Lindbergh and Henry Ford were quite open in their admiration for Mussolini and Hitler. The greatest antipathy for communism was demonstrated by fascists and, symmetrically, the greatest antipathy for fascism was demonstrated by communists and socialists. This country was deeply divided and the attack on Pearl Harbor was finally enough to crystallize resolve on the side of the 'left.'

The blood hadn't stopped flowing from WW2 when the fascist right, needing no Pearl Harbor, embarked on a series of wars and witch hunts against the "Red Scare" ... in Korea, Cuba, and Viet Nam and in the HUAC of the U.S. It's easy for a liberal to have antipathy for autocratic communism - any autocracy is antithetical to human liberty. But it's not just autocratic 'leftism' that's eschewed by the fascists. It's ANY system of governance that does not perpetuate both the neo-aristocratic inheritance of wealth and power and the entitlements of wealth to assume all power over people and marshal the forces of government in service to property.

I don't think there's anything accidental about today's fascists being in league with monarchies. They're ideologically similar in their adoration of property above people - with appetites for acquisition that're insatiable and unbounded.

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againes654 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
73. Great article!!!
The problem that I see is that the Democrats know that "Democrats" will vote for them eventually. They know that it is either repuke or Democrat, and when push comes to shove, we will vote for the "lesser of 2 evils". So they continue to play the middle. Trying to "please" both sides.

Well I say fuck that. WE have to nominate someone that will bring REAL change to our government. If we don't nominate the right person, just the one that "leads the polls so they must be the most electable". We have a golden opportunity next year.

IMHO
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WarhammerTwo Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
74. Want politicians to change?
Edited on Thu Oct-04-07 09:32 AM by WarhammerTwo
Then GRIP!

Get
Rid of
Incumbent
Politicians!

Re-elect no one. Ever. When politicians raise hundreds of millions of dollars and then realize that all the money in the world won't save their job, perhaps they'll start listening to the folks pulling the levers in the booth rather than the big money campaign contributers. Could you imagine the fear it would cause in political circles? What will they do when money and spin won't do a damn bit of good?

Don't listen to a single radio or TV ad. Don't read any political literature. Just go in the booth and cast your ballot for the "other guy" whoever that may be. And then do it at the next election and the next and the next until those yahoos in Washington and your state capitols finally get the hint that we, the people, have the power. We are the ones who are going to be heard. We are the ones who will have our will carried not. Not the corporations. Not the special interests. You and me. The little guy. GRIP! Get Rid of Incumbent
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
80. k/r
ibtl
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
82. AMAZING!! Four-star 'Greatest' with 60 recommendations and NOT YET one grammarian ....
... has weighed in to point out that my Subject line contains a grammatical error?? (Subject/verb agreement.) Stunning!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #82
83. The "Americans" being right next to your verb...
makes it less stand-outy.

:hi:



EXCELLENT OP, btw. :loveya:
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #83
84. Yep. But that's something we learned in high school - a common error.
For sure, though, I've never been the sharpest grammar knife in ANY drawer. I abuse punctuation with veritable abandon ... the antithesis of e.e.cummings.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
86. Leave my progressive majority alone
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
88. Thank you Tahiti Nut! Do you remember when Michael Moore was promoting
F911, he said that he had been all around the country and Americans as a majority are very Liberal. He's right! Even our culture reflects that. Look at the hit tv shows and music to start with.

I wrote on another thread yesterday, that my values haven't changed since the 60's when I considered myself just a Democrat, but the Democratic Party's has changed. After Liberal was coined a dirty word by Reagan and pals, the Democratic Party moved to the right, leaving me, the same person, same values but now considered far left? Oy!
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. Yes, I think Moore is far more 'connected' than the average politician.
Moore's populist roots have not been pulled up and isolated in some hothouse. Our politicians seem to create a quarantined echo chamber for themselves ... possibly as a result of their fund-raising. Since they've devoted nearly 100% of their time to the money-chase, they've lost contact with the people whom they represent and the 'tokens' of communication are all memes and talking points. There's no connection.

In the 60s, I was a 'mainstream liberal' ... someone who was put off by Canada's "blue laws" and supportive of civil rights and abortion rights but mainly supportive of labor - fair pay, vacation, increased minimum wage, and progressive taxes. I, too, have watched BOTH parties engage in a headlong stampede to the right. It's not just the Democrats (who then included Dixiecrats) but it's also been Republicans who once supported small business more than corporations. The policies of the GOP have been the DEATH of small business.

Furthermore, I've seen corporations themselves change from an operational emphasis and promote-from-within and cradle-to-grave and on-the-job-training and in-sourcing philosophies to management by brokers (slice and dice) and hire at all levels and use-and-discard and no internal training or development and out-sourcing. I don't see people *building* an enterprise ... I see people looking for quick bucks. Corporations were once managed by people with ties to both the community and the workers. Now they're managed by people who live in isolated enclaves with no roots in either the community or the workforce. They're brokers and wheeler-dealers, not builders.

So, I see changes in the political sector, the business sector, AND the religious sector. (Need I cite the abuses of religious 'leaders'?)

It's a headlong slide into the fascism of a banana republic ... corporate colonialism.


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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. Very well said. When reading it, it reminded me of a recent appearance
of Maria Bartiromo on Real Time.

She was telling Maher (who hasn't a clue when it comes to finance) that our economy was wonderful because our corporations are in a global market. The gist I got out of it was that screw the average American, the corporations were doing just fine. This is their mindset and we are totally screwed.

Here is a link
http://video.google.com/url?docid=4370312096720591466&esrc=sr1&ev=v&len=364&q=real%2Btime%2Bmaria&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DPKZ3snKfmmo&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D4370312096720591466%26q%3Dreal%2Btime%2Bmaria%26total%3D239%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D0&usg=AL29H23toxj-b_Dgi-m9Mrqh5ixMcBEBiA
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
89. Great article!
Here's a riddle: What's an "independent"? More and more, it's an American who holds positions we associate with Democrats but who refuses to call himself by the name. Why? Part of the reason is that people say to themselves, "If only there was a party that thought like me--that was for harnessing the power of government to help the needy and protect the middle class; for reining in business excess; for fighting overseas threats through soft power instead of reckless force." But they don't find today's Democrats answering to the description. A Washington Post/ABC News poll published in early June proved it on Iraq: It heralded the emergence of what might be called "antiwar independents," who'd like nothing more than to find a party determined to end the war but don't see enough difference between Congressional Republicans and Democrats for the latter to earn their loyalty. Fueled, the Post suspects, by the failure of Congress to change course in Iraq, independents gave Congressional Democrats a 49 percent approval rating in April but only 37 percent in June.


:applause:

The pattern--Democrats losing because they don't look enough like Democrats--is nothing new: During the 2002 election Democrats did such a poor job of selling themselves as better protectors of middle-class interests that Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research found only 34 percent of voters saw a difference between Democrats and Republicans on prescription drug benefits to seniors. That year, when the party was handed a once-in-a-generation shot to prove itself as a protector against runaway greed (the corporate accounting scandals), DNC chair Terry McAuliffe called the swindling firm Global Crossing a "great company."


:applause:


I could have written this myself, if only I were so talented! LOL!

Thanks for posting.

TC
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
90. my thoughts well put..
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pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
93. Kick & Nominated
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
94. Yes, we may be "abandoned" by leadership . . . but we have the numbers . . ..
and we can change this betraying leadership --
we can move the party ---
we can oust the DLC and corporate cooption of the Democratic party ---



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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
95. A Big K&R for my friend, the Nut
Edited on Thu Oct-04-07 02:20 PM by ProudDad
I almost posted a link to this article but, as I remember, it was only available to subscribers on the net at the time...

I'm afraid that DU does reflect a sort of reality out there though. There is a group of people who would rather "win" than do anything that would help "We the People". They don't discuss values or policies, just the horse race.

There's another group that is so wed to the corporate capitalist system that they cannot even comprehend any other way to organize the distribution of resources -- and are VERY afraid of contemplating any different methods if they could.

Etc.

But, where the rubber meets the road, it is indeed true that most people have progressive values for themselves and theirs. I'm afraid most of them don't believe they are members of a community though -- the capitalist propaganda has convinced them that their "freedom and liberty" is more important...divide and conquer, don't ya know.

:hi:
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
96. K & R! Well worth bookmarking for future reference!
:kick:

:patriot:
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
99. K & R & Bookmarked. nt
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Forrest Greene Donating Member (946 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
100. Know How We Think
...the Christian Fundamentalists are so-o-o-o-o-o-o stupid because of the way they are manipulated, duped, & used by the Republicans?

Nothing like that could ever be done to us, could it?

'Cause we're too, um, smart. Or something.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
101. Kick ...for a Great Read...Strategy...Future...!
:kick:
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
102. Enjoy the Wedgie.
and read this:

The best trick the GOP ever pulled: getting leftists to blame the Democrats for bad GOP policies
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1967775
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