Violent Crime is up in America. Again.

[billbuckhead]

Violent Crime is up in America. Again.

"According to the FBI's final crime statistics for 2006, violent crime is up for the second consecutive year, the first time that's happened in over 10 years. Gun crime in particular is surging nationwide, with an 8% increase in gun robberies and an almost 3% increase in gun assaults.

The numbers are much worse in America's small- and medium-sized cities, with gun robberies in cities of 25,000 to 50,000 people up twice the national rate at 16.2%, and in medium-sized cities (250,000 to 500,000 people) up a whopping 14.7%.

As the former mayor of Fort Wayne, Indiana (a Midwestern city with just under 250,000 citizens where the number of violent crimes actually dropped between 2005-2006), and as a former president of the U.S. Conference of Mayors, I know first-hand the challenges that cities and communities face when confronting the scourge of gun crime. Creating safer communities takes hard work, and success is no accident.

Neither is it any accident that weak gun policies at the Federal level have contributed to the current national violent crime trend: The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), responsible for the enforcement of our nation's gun laws, does not have the resources or effective tools it needs to stop the trafficking in illegal guns; there are gaps in the Brady background check law that allow prohibited purchasers - including the dangerously mentally ill and even suspected terrorists - to walk out of a gun store fully armed; and we have no Federal limits on how many dangerous weapons someone can buy at a time."
--------------snip---------------------------
<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-helmke/violent-crime-is-up-in-am_b_67038.html>

America suffers from the highest murder rate of all advanced nations.

[tekisui]

1. Three people were shot outside my door.

It scared the hell out of me. And, I live in a small city, you know, one of those places where things like that don't happen.
They all lived, but one was a 12 year old boy and he is in critical condition with a gunshot wound to the head.

[upi402]

10. Whoa! Now that's heavy.

Did you have a bit of shcok yourself?

For the OP;
as American life gets more Hobbesian -nasty, brutish, and short- these symptoms pop up from what I've learned over the years.

[Xenotime]

60. All the more reason to get rid of guns

[orpupilofnature57]

2. Shrub's Amerrika!! Ya-hoo!!

[lonestarnot]

3. And prisons are overflowing. Supremes to step in and let people out.

Ugh oh, build more prisons, private ones. We only have the highest prison population in the world.

FUCKING A we suck.

[TahitiNut]

9. Sounds like a job for Blackwater.

:puke:

[robinlynne]

4. And it's going to get worse unless they share the wealth.

[tom_paine]

5. Amerika is no longer an "advanced nation" since 2000.

And compared to our fellow Third World Nations, we are doing quite well.

[benEzra]

6. Gun availability hasn't changed one iota since the mid to late 1990's...

Gun availability hasn't changed one iota since the mid to late 1990's. What HAS changed is the fewer police on the street, and (more significantly) the replacement of the community policing paradigm of the '90s with the post-9/11 Homeland Security, keep-the-'civilians'-in-line model. Look at the Massachusetts violent crime rate since the late '90s to see just how badly the Homeland Security model worked in Mass; the "Boston Miracle" is officially over, thanks to the more hard-line approach.

At least Helmke didn't try to blame "assault weapons" for the increase, since rifle crime actually decreased this year (again).

2005 data:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_20.html
Total murders............................14,860.....100.00%
Handguns..................................7,543......50.76%
Other weapons (non firearm, non edged)....1,954......13.15%
Edged weapons.............................1,914......12.88%
Firearms (type unknown)...................1,598......10.75%
Shotguns....................................517.......3.48%
Hands, fists, feet, etc.....................892.......6.00%
Rifles......................................442.......2.97%

2006 data:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_20.html
Total murders............................14,990.....100.00%
Handguns..................................7,795......52.00%
Other weapons (non firearm, non edged)....2,158......14.40%
Edged weapons.............................1,822......12.15%
Firearms (type unknown)...................1,465.......9.77%
Shotguns....................................481.......3.21%
Hands, fists, feet, etc.....................833.......5.56%
Rifles......................................436.......2.91%

BTW, for those for whom it was not clear from the OP, Helmke is the Republican head of the same gun-control lobbying group that helped hand the House and Senate to the repubs in '94...

------------------------
Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What? (written in '04, largely vindicated in '06, IMO)

[billbuckhead]

7. The NRA leadership is all Reichwing Republicans ,YOU DON"T MENTION THAT!

Almost twice as people were killed by rifles in America than killed by all guns in the UK(or most other adavnced nations with strong gun laws) after adjusting for population. (46 vs 436) And what about over 1400 killed by unknown weapons? Not a very accurate survey. There were very few SUV rollovers in the 1950's because they were such a small part of the vehicle population but today since they are such a large part of America's vehilce fleet, an SUV rollover is almost a daily feature of most metro rushhours. Once these more deadly weapons are a bigger part of the population and easier to obtain, they willl escalate violence on our streets just like the have in war.

BTW, the posterchild of the black rifle cults is NRA kook Ted Nugent who threatened to off Obama, Hillary, Boxer, Feinstein with his black rifle. Want to see what evil looks like? Just go to a black rifle website, they make freepers look human.<http://www.ar15.com/>

[krispos42]

15. The UK's homicie rate is at a 40-year high

The fact that they banned the ownership of 'assault weapons' in 1988 and all handguns in 1997 has has had either a zero effect on homicide rates, or a negative effect on homicide rates.

Hey, did you hear that last year Ohio banned it's citizens from owning green cars? Deaths and injuries do to green cars have reached historic lows! The governor and state lawmakers tout the drop in rates as a sign of progress, and chastised neighboring states for not banning green cars in their states. "It's a public-safety issue. Green-car deaths and injuries are 100% preventable, but we need inter-state cooperation." The officials noted that all green-car deaths in Ohio were due to either illegally-owned green cars, or green cars trafficked in from across state lines. Ohio's Washington congressional delegation plans on introducing federal laws modeled on the sucessful Ohio laws to ban green cars on the national level.

:eyes:


Try this out...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1828721#1842665

et. seq., and especially this one...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1828721#1866527

and this one...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1828721#1875592


Oh, and just for shits and giggles...








The victims of 9/11, including 72 police officers, are not included in the above charts.

[billbuckhead]

38. The UK doesn't have 3 strike laws and their murder rate is STILL 3 TIMES LOWER

The USA has the world largest prison population, we take criminals off the streets, they don't do that so much in Europe or do they have a death penalty over there.
<http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita>

[krispos42]

44. Yeah, we have dumb laws

The same people that scream "marijuana is a gateway drug!" don't ever consider that busting people for marijuana is a "gateway arrest".

Just as an example.

[mudesi]

49. Why do you people always miss the point?

The UK's violent crime rate is still lower than the American rate despite your assertions. The same goes for Canada, Japan, France, and dozens of other countries.

[krispos42]

51. The UK and the US use different methods for comparing violent crime

So I don't quote those. Iverglas did a very nice analysis of those disparities one day. I think it's in the gungeon someplace.

I quote homicide rates, which are pretty unambiguous.

If you're going to be okay with the fact that the UK's homicide rate has doubled over the last 40 years because it's still lower than ours, you should be ecstatic because our rate is about 15% less than it was 40 years ago.


Or, you could put yourself in their shoes and say "What is happening that had doubled our homicide rate?"

[billbuckhead]

56. Bragging about having a 4 times higher murder rate than a similar nation

Truly sad.

[krispos42]

57. It used to be 9 times.

What's really getting your goat is that, by any standard, Americans who lawfully own guns are the best-armed they have ever been. And, by any standard, Britons who lawfully own guns are the worst-armed they have ever been. And their homicide rate is creeping up, while ours is in fairly sharp decline.

[benEzra]

20. The NRA didn't write the OP; Helmke did.

The NRA leadership is all Reichwing Republicans ,YOU DON"T MENTION THAT!

The NRA didn't write the OP; Helmke did.

When I post an NRA press release as an OP in GD, you can criticize me on that grounds.

BTW, in my opinion, the NRA is mostly irrelevant to the gun issue in the United States, in that if the NRA vanished tomorrow--or adopted the views of the Brady Campaign--very little would change regarding the dynamics of the issue itself. The NRA has about 4 million members, who support it because they see it as one more way to keep people like you out of their gun safes. But it's the 65 to 80 million people of voting age who own stuff you want to ban that you need to be worrying about, not what some suit at the NRA has to say.

The U.S. gun-control lobby is indeed a top-down construct, but don't make the mistake of thinking that the U.S. gun-owner-rights movement is a similar astroturf facade.

There were very few SUV rollovers in the 1950's because they were such a small part of the vehicle population but today since they are such a large part of America's vehilce fleet, an SUV rollover is almost a daily feature of most metro rushhours. Once these more deadly weapons are a bigger part of the population and easier to obtain, they willl escalate violence on our streets just like the have in war.

Except that when the number of black rifles in civilian homes tripled or more during the period 1994-2004, violent crime decreased to historic lows, because rifles are largely irrelevant to the U.S. crime rate.

Here's what was happening to the U.S. violent crime rate as black rifle ownership skyrocketed after 1993:



I don't see the rate going up there--and note that even with violent crime up somewhat 2005-2006, rifle crime went down, again.

BTW, the posterchild of the black rifle cults is NRA kook Ted Nugent who threatened to off Obama, Hillary, Boxer, Feinstein with his black rifle.

And Ted Nugent is only the "posterchild of black rifle owners" in the minds of people like you. The many millions of "black rifle" shooters in this country are ordinary Americans...and all but one of them are NOT Ted Nugent.



"Black rifles" dominate most aspects competitive and recreational target shooting in this country, both long-range precision shooting and IPSC/IDPA style. The once-futuristic-looking, small-caliber carbine originally derided as the "mousegun" became "the mouse that roared" in the competitive shooting world.


http://www.championshooters.com/store/product.php?productid=328

FWIW, do you think this black rifle should be banned?

[billbuckhead]

40. What is it, your new pellet gun? Who can tell what's a toy or a WMD?

We pay civil servants pitiful wages to tell the difference in your absurd "what gun is this" comparisons and to do it in a heartbeat. Hey, I used to target shoot when I was 14 years old, before I was big enough for real sports and girls.

BTW, target shooting is one of the most pathetic hobbies out there, it's to killing things like masturbation is to sex.

[derby378]

46. What's a WMD?

Go ahead. Tell me. I dare you.

[NickB79]

50. Good to know that an Olympic sport for the past 100 years is "like masturbation"

You're a classy one, ain't ya?

[derby378]

53. I guess Bill don't care much for the Olympics, either...

"No more triple axels for you, Christine - your boot may come loose, fly into the crowd, and poke someone's eye out!"

[krispos42]

59. Ben, that's a wild trip with Photoshop there...

I can't quite tell, but it looks like a percussion muzzle-loader with an adjustable AR-15 stock, pistol-foregrip, attached bipod, red-dot holographic sight, and what may be some sort of night-vision scope. And a length of M1913 Picatinny rail attached to the top of the barrel to mount the sights!


If the Colonials had that, the Redcoats would have soiled themselves!!!!!

[Rage for Order]

8. Sounds like I should get another gun or two to protect myself

I have a shotgun for home protection, but it's not very practical to bring with me on roadtrips. Guess I need to get a handgun too.

[mvccd1000]

11. Violent crime went down where I live, & we are a shall-issue, no registration state.

By the way, I'd like to see some similar statistics for Great Britain. I understand their crime rate has been spiraling upward dramatically since they took guns away from law-abiding citizens.

Violent Crime Rate down in Mesa - a couple of links from this week's papers to back up my assertions.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/98850

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1003mr-crimestats1005.html

Quote:

The Uniform Crime Reports compiled by the FBI showed a decrease in homicides, commercial burglary and motor vehicle theft. Criminal homicide has decreased by 50 percent in a year-to-date comparison to 2006, according to the numbers.

Commercial burglary dropped 29 percent, and motor vehicle thefts decreased 13 percent.

Overall, Mesa showed a 5 percent decrease in violent and property crimes tracked by the FBI.

[billbuckhead]

12. The UK had 46 gun murders in 2006, Japan even less vs how many in Arizona?

Did you know that only one person was killed in all those riots in France? Gun-nutism has made America a far worse nation-culture-whatever to all that will look. Al Gore won and it was stolen from him by a corrupt corporate owned government but the first ones to come out say they run things cause they singlehandly won for Bush/Cheney without help from the Christian right and corporate media was the NRA.

Ironic while I was typing this I was watching the travel channel tonite and they were in Tokyo and they mentioned that Tokyo was one of the safest cities in the world and gun control was one of the reasons. It's a farce to say one's free when one's not safe. Maybe Japan should take over/buy America and gunwackos should leave or turn in almost all their guns. Everytime you shop at walmart/target/ad nauseum or buy a Japanese/Korean/soon to be Chinese car or electronic device while under a trade deficit, one gives ownership of America over to Asia anyway and i'll take those Japanese gun laws over the inhumane idiocy we have now in America.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_civil_unrest_in_France>

[mvccd1000]

14. Then why is the level of violence in my city dropping, while it is going up in the UK?

Arizona is continually passing more an more laws to protect our rights as gun owners, while the UK has taken away those rights. Their crime rate is rising, ours is dropping.

Feel "free" to walk by a group of teenagers in London. When they choose to mug you, remember not to resist. You'll be the one charged with a crime. You can live that way if you like, but that's not freedom to me.

[billbuckhead]

36. One is 5 times more likely to be murdered in Arizona than the UK

It's a laughable and pathetic lie that you say Arizona is freer or safer than the UK and here are links. Which has more people in prison, Arizona or the UK? The UK is so much safer and freer, they let the crooks walk around free. If I was them, I'd have three strikes laws.
<http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_hom_tot_num_of_vic-crime-homicide-total-number-victims>
<http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita>
<http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_hom_tot_num_of_vic_percap-total-number-victims-per-capita>

[mvccd1000]

43. Did you read my post?

I did not say Arizona is safer than the UK. I said Arizona is GETTING safer (than it was).

The crime rate in the US used to be approximately five times that of the UK. That is no longer the case; Arizona is getting safer, while the crime rate in the UK is going through the roof. If present trends continue, the US WILL be safer than the UK.

They have a gun ban, we are relaxing gun laws. Obviously there are other factors, but taking away guns from law-abiding citizens certainly has not helped the UK.

[billbuckhead]

55. SO YOU ADMIT ARIZONA IS FAR LESS SAFE THAN THE UK

Play games but admit reality that Arizona is far less safe for murder, rape and gun crimes than the UK.

[mvccd1000]

63. Yes, that is exactly what I said.

And I also said that if present trends continue, that will no longer be the case.

Arizona is getting safer (slowly), and the UK is getting more dangerous (quickly).

Arizona protects the rights of gun owners, the UK takes them away.

You do the math.

[cutlassmama]

17. what state is that? No background check? I may have to take a vacation there

[mvccd1000]

18. Still a background check, if you buy from a FFL, just no gun registration.

And, concealed carry permits are "shall-issue," not "may-issue," so as long as you can pass the background check and the class, they have to issue you a license.

Apparently, the streets are not yet running red with blood, as has been suggested by some groups when other states attempt to pass such laws.

[Selatius]

13. We have a very poor track record of poverty relief compared to Western Europe

It's no small surprise crime is higher in nations where there are pockets of poverty that remain un-addressed and are allowed to fester. Granted, we are not so far gone like a country such as Brazil, but for a country that claims to be the wealthiest in the world, the level of crime is nothing short of a harsh indictment of American society.

[Nutmegger]

16. And the US has the highest incarceration population.

Fuck Bush Inc's Amurika.

[Tesha]

19. We have to face facts: We're a violent society.

Occasionally, a roaring good economy allows everyone
to have enough money that our natural tendencies to
violence are sublimated under the rush of all of the
other stimuli that that easy money provides.

But then we hit a bump in the economic road, life
gets tougher again, and our natural tendencies
re-assert themselves.

Guns, gangs, glorification of war, violent video
games, objectification of women, violence against
gays, disrespect for the poor, violence against
immigrants and racial minorities, it's all bits
of the whole cloth: America is one sick, sick place.

Tesha

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. heh.

I like how a post entitled "we have to face facts" winds up a screed against violent video games.

[Tesha]

24. There were more points in my post that just violent video games.

But yes, I think they are a notable *SYMPTOM* of just
how screwed-up this country and its citizens are.

Sane, balanced people probably wouldn't get their
jollies (for very long) vicariously blowing everything
that moved into blood and guts and gore.

Tesha

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. It's a shame you might have had valid points mixed up with then.

"Sane, balanced people probably wouldn't get their
jollies (for very long) vicariously blowing everything
that moved into blood and guts and gore."

Untrue. Hundreds of millions of sane, balanced people enjoy violent video games. We also watch violent moves. And attend violent theater. And read violent books.

[Tesha]

27. It's a shame your reading comprehension is limited to one point at a time, ehh? (NT)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. It's a particularly ridiculous point.

Especially juxtaposed with "facing facts."

[Tesha]

30. Strangely enough, the research is on my side. (NT)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

31. mmm, no it's not.

Neither is common sense.

[Tesha]

32. Actually, it is. Start here...

http://www.apa.org/science/psa/sb-anderson.html

Here's one point to get you started:

---

Myths and Facts

Myth 1. Violent video game research has yielded very mixed results.

Facts: Some studies have yielded nonsignificant video game effects, just as
some smoking studies failed to find a significant link to lung cancer. But
when one combines all relevant empirical studies using meta-analytic techniques,
five separate effects emerge with considerable consistency. Violent video games
are significantly associated with: increased aggressive behavior, thoughts, and
affect; increased physiological arousal; and decreased prosocial (helping)
behavior. Average effect sizes for experimental studies (which help establish
causality) and correlational studies (which allow examination of serious
violent behavior) appear comparable (Anderson & Bushman, 2001).

---

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. "using meta-analytical techniques"

:rofl:

[Tesha]

35. Oh, I thought (from your earlier postings) that you *BELIEVED* in the science...

Oh, I thought (from your earlier postings) that you
*BELIEVED* in the science (well, at least when you
thought it was on your side).

Tesha

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. One doesn't "believe" in science.

One examines it, critically.

Especially when they make an extraordinary claim.

[Tesha]

45. Actually, there are a whole series of claims made there.

Originating from quite a few different researchers
using different methodologies. But since they
disagree with you (you who have cited exactly
zero rebuttal research), they're all suspect.

Tesha

[krispos42]

58. There is some truth to that

I got "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" for Christmas a couple of years ago, and while it was a pretty cool game and all, it turns out I really couldn't be a gangsta. I didn't like doing the thug thing.

I had MUCH more fun with the WW2 game series "Call of Duty". I could get into that game. The last good war, and all that.

What can I say? I like being a good guy!

[SammyWinstonJack]

21. Heckuvajob george! n/t

[Man_in_the_Moon]

22. I see Paul Helmke, Republican shill, ...

is using a wedge issue to drive the Democratic Party into defeat.

It is a shame gullible Democrats fall for his game.

[sarcasmo]

26. We now have shootings almost daily in the greater Grand Rapids area.

These aren't killings, but still they are shootings. The economy is way down and the crime will go way up.

[lovuian]

29. when your not working and poor you resort to stealing

We are in Dickens times

of pick pockets dope dealers and prostitution

and the biggest Thieve of them all is Poor George who can't get enough money

[Romulox]

33. This is the natural result of darwinian economic policies...nt

[Megahurtz]

39. In This Country

where BushInc. has made the Rich get richer and forced the Poor to become even poorer,
already desperate people do even more desperate things.

Most wealthy Country in the World my ass. Not a lot of the People anyway!

[Retired AF Dem]

41. Gun crime is up?

That is strange, Ive never seen a gun commit a crime.

[Snarkturian Clone]

48. True that NT

[fujiyama]

42. Just about EVERY major quality of life indicator has fallen in this country since Bush came in

This is what happens when you loot the treasury (and of course distribute it to your friends), take cops off the streets, flush all the money away in a needless and unjustified war, all in turn to create an authoritarian, fear based society blaming everything on evil brown people. Couple that with the fact that we're the most violent "industrialized" nation in the world as it is with the worst access to healthcare and a practically nonexistant safety net...

Well...

Is this THAT much of a surprise?

I seriously can't say how this country appeals to me anymore...and I'm afraid even if by some miraculous chance a Dem becomes president, I have to wonder - are things are on a downward spiral?

[Retired AF Dem]

47. Mr Benchley we know you hate guns

Just once cant you ever proceed to another topic?

[Flabbergasted]

52. kick

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Breeze54]

61. The stats are skewed due to IPod thefts!!!. (Go figure, in * world) - Violent crime is UP due to

IPod thefts!! No shit!! It's true!!

If you take IPod thefts out of the equation?

Crime drops considerably!! Not a lie!! ;)

Google it yourself!!!

[killbotfactory]

62. Welcome to Dick Cheney's America