Internment Camps in WW ll

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Part of the rationale for the internment camps was for their own protection...What if Franklin Roosevelt , who was a beloved and revered figure, said the Japanese were our guests here and the Japanese Americans who were born here should enjoy the same rights of citizenship as everybody else...

He could have set a different tone...

When I was watching Ken Burns' documentary on WW ll I was so moved by Daniel Inouye's accounts of the war; especially when he recalled his all Japanese American battalion's reaction to the passing of Franklin Roosevelt... They , unsolicited, started attacking their enemies, and said they were doing it for the "old man"...

Roosevelt might not have been a demigod but he doesn't strike me as racist...

[bdamomma]

1. amazing documentary,

[OneBlueSky]

11. truly . . . I was particularly taken by the Battle of the Bulge episode since by dad . . .

was an aerial artillery observer who directed artillery fire for the Allies during that battle . . . he was awarded the Air Medal with five Oak Leaf Clusters (equivilant to getting the award six times) for his service . . . fortunately, he came through the war unscathed, at least physically . . .

[bdamomma]

24. I give these men so much credit, and as my own father

was stationed in New Guinea but I really can't recall him talking about the war.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. FDR being "racist" is debatable. There were initially internment

camps for German-Americans and Italian-Americans, but their detentions dwindled and the majority demographic of internees were consistently Japanese-Americans.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. I Read About It

I also suspect it's a bit easier for Italians and Germans to blend into the larger population...

[no_hypocrisy]

5. BINGO

[TheDebbieDee]

10. DITTO! on the BINGO!

[Thothmes]

4. demigod

Doubt President Roosevelt could be labled a racist. He did in fact sign the executive order authorizing the internments. He was however very pragmatic
when dealing with sensitive political issues.

[HereSince1628]

6. I'm sorry but the part re FDR's passing that's a good example of "glory creep"

What Inouye is describing is an irrational linking of FDR's death by his (Inouyes) battalions and their interest in some sort of renewed "unsolicited" violence against Germans who had nothing to do with it.

Of course it's not PC to say so. We want to see WWII as glory filled, we want to see the Japanese American battalion as loyal Americans despite the ill treatment they and their relatives experienced at the hands of Americans. We need to fulfill the vision we want of ourselves. And it is absolutely true that the Japanese Battalion was loyal.

But this episode glorifies an irrational linkage. Increased hatred of Germans, "unsolicited" enhanced desire to kill Germans, because FDR died of a stroke!? That makes no sense. It shouldn't make us feel good it should make us wonder about our psychological and sociological make-up.

This episode is glorifying violent irrationality because it is framed as a display of loyalty. It makes viewers warm and fuzzy about an episode illogical blood lust. That's glory creeping onto something not really glory-filled because it assuages our self image.

Seems we don't really hate war and violence when Ken Burns can make it serve our emotional needs.

That message from Ken Burns makes US rationale for attacking Iraq for the deeds of a couple handfuls of Saudis seem so much more characteristic of us as a nation.

[Postman]

7. Great analysis of why I hate Ken Burn's documentaries...

It's all "feel good" history....

Howard Zinn's - A People's History Of The US" would have made a much more intriguing and edifying documentary for the masses to watch...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Paul Fussell Was Featured Prominently In The Documentary

He has spent his whole life demystifying the romanticicism of battle....

[bryant69]

12. How is it not PC to say that? I don't understand.

But Germans killed a hell of a lot of Americans even if they hadn't killed FDR - or do you favor the isolationist/Pat Buchanan analysis of WW2?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[HereSince1628]

14. Read into it what you want. Ignore what you want. Try to put words in my mouth

NEVER NEVER NEVER stay focused on what is there in front of you.

Always deflect so you can defend some other issue.

It's the DU way. It's the American Way.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. My Innocent Take

Here was my "innocent" take...

Those Japanese soldiers were conflicted. They had affection for the land of their birth but also were upset that were treating as "enemies" by their own country... They didn't want to kill Germans qua Germans but they did want to assist the war effort and that of necessity included killing Germans... They were moved by FDR's death and wanted to assist the war effort and that included killing Germans for the "Old Man".

As far as being conflicted about fighting for a country that treats you as a second class citizen I think Joe Louis nailed it " ain't no problems in America Hitler can fix."

[bryant69]

17. THat makes sense. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. War Sucks

And I was really disappointed to learn about some of the crap we did like shooting surrendering soldiers...That is beyond messed up...Gawd...How can you do that?

But there was no question who the "good guys" were....

[Hobarticus]

23. Excellent answer....eom

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HereSince1628]

26. Well done. That added a lot and was both erudite and informative

[Hobarticus]

21. What navel-gazing crap...

I see no reason to get knickers in a twist over soldiers wishing to win the war for FDR. He was a beloved and popular leader, at a time when we needed one most. His loss struck the nation hard.

Easy to look back and wring hands over collective psychology with the luxury of hindsight. We were fighting to win, as were our enemies. One only needs to look at how they were prosecuting the war themselves to realize that it was all-or-nothing. And the outcome of the war wasn't always so clear, but the result of losing the war was. So I think we can excuse these young soldiers their drive to fight and win.

These young Japanese-Americans saw themselves as AMERICANS. That we locked their families up and treated them as criminals while still needing them to serve is a tragedy, but there's no need to call their heroism and loyalty into question. Matter of fact, it's an insult.

Bloodlust disguised as loyalty...sheesh.

[HereSince1628]

27. I'm not looking back, I'm looking on what Ken Burns produced now

We see the retelling of a story resting upon an irrational association as a great story that reinforces an image we want to have of ourselves.

We overlook that it has the same failed logic of Bush's rationalization that we are fighting and killing the people in Iraq who attacked us on 911.


And BTW I recognized the loyalty of the Japanese Battalion.

[mulsh]

9. My grandfather and great uncle

bought a couple of businesses from Japanese friends bound for the internment camps, a clothing store in SF and a couple of nurseries through out the state. They paid the owners what they could, a couple of thousand bucks at most, My mother used to talk about visiting these friends in the camps during the war. When the internees were released my grandfather and uncle returned the businesses to the former internees and told them to consider the purchase price a gift.

When I was in my late twenties I met a friend of a friend who at one point told us about the "irish guys who saved my familie's nursery"
Barney (my grandfather) Jim (my great uncle. Sometimes California is a small world.

[spinbaby]

13. That's a lovely story

I truly believe that most people are good and will help others whenever they get a chance.

[Mrs. Overall]

19. We had an interesting issue here in Western WA (where there were internment camps)

regarding teaching WWII in high school classrooms. A group of Republicans fought against detailed teaching of the Japanese internment in our area because they said it would reflect negatively on our country (even connecting it to the current war in Iraq and the need to "bolster" America, not tear it down). They also expressed concern that liberal-leaning teachers would turn it into an anti-America lesson. Of course their outrage and petitions went nowhere.

[sentelle]

22. Internment camps in Western Washington?

I thought a lot of the internees went to Minadoka (Idaho) or Manzanar (Canifornia).

[Mrs. Overall]

29. Yes, I should have clarified. There weren't permanent internment camps here, but many Japanese

from WA State were temporarily (or permanently is they were thought to have committed a crime) held at McNeill Island, Fort Lewis, and at a center in Puyallup.

[sentelle]

31. doing the puyallup

Apparently a temporary camp was indeed set up in the area that is now the Puyallup fairground. Kinda makes me not want to "do the Puyallup"

[sentelle]

20. We look at things a little differently out here where I live.

The community I live (Bainbridge Island, WA) in is noted in the internment issue, as being one of the first places where the Japanese and Japanese-Americans were removed and relocated. There are some who took advantage, and others who did not.

from: HistoryLink
http://www.historylink.org/essays/output.cfm?file_id=8177

"On March 24, 1942, military authorities issued Civilian Exclusion Order No. 1, requiring the removal of all Japanese and Japanese Americans from Bainbridge Island. Both Issei and Nisei were given only six days to prepare for the move (Ohtaki). This was a complete disruption of all aspects of life. The Island Japanese had to make arrangements regarding their property, complete their goodbyes, and evaluate what possessions they would take with them, as they were allowed to take only what they could physically carry (Visible Target). Their Island neighbors helped them as best they could by agreeing to care for their farms and protect their homes.

This was in sharp contrast to other communities, such as Bellevue, Washington; when a relocation order was issued for that area, the white neighbors chose to take advantage of the situation. There were many instances of whites buying household goods for unfair prices from the evicted Japanese and taking possession of farmland with no intention of sharing the resulting profits (Neiwert 134-138). Mitsi Shiraishi, a Japanese woman from Bellevue, recalled, "People came to buy things for nothing. And they would offer you a measly five dollars or something for something that we could still use" (Neiwert 138).

When news of Exclusion Order No. 1 hit Bainbridge, (Walt) Woodward became furious and began a series of newspaper articles defending the Islanders and criticizing the forced removal. He also argued that such a violation of constitutional rights could be directed at anyone (Holt). Woodward said, "The Review has stuck its neck out good and proper for you people not because you are but because you are Americans and temporarily have lost the citizenship rights this nation guarantees to every citizen" (Ohtaki)..."

It would seem like it was a conveinient excuse, even then, to remove them for their 'own protection'. Or, perhaps a convenient excuse to exclude them. Remember that at the time, there were many parts of this nation that did not allow ethnic intermarriage.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. Oh lordy loo...

"For their protection" was from the beginning propaganda and pure grade-A certified bullshit.

[Thothmes]

30. I agree to some extent

I believe "for their protection" was a convient excuse. However, I also believe that once the photos of American dead from Buna & Tarawa,hit the newspapers, their would have been a considerable amount of violence against the Japanese Americans.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. My brother-in-law was a guard at an internment camp.

Being from Manhattan Beach, CA, he had friends that he was guarding. He was sickened by his duty and was finally able to get a transfer to a POW camp in Idaho.

As an aside, he said the Germans, mostly from the Afrika Corps, were complete assholes, but the Italians had a grand time and were VERY popular when they were sent to the local farms to work..especially with the farm girls.

[stimbox]

32. There were economic interests in California that wanted the Japanese removed.

Non-military advocates for exclusion, removal, and detention
Internment was popular among many white farmers who resented the Japanese American farmers. These individuals saw internment as a convenient means of uprooting their Japanese American competitors. Austin E. Anson, managing secretary of the Salinas Vegetable Grower-Shipper Association, told the Saturday Evening Post in 1942: "We're charged with wanting to get rid of the Japs for selfish reasons. We do. It's a question of whether the white man lives on the Pacific Coast or the brown men… If all the Japs were removed tomorrow, we had never miss them in two weeks, because the white farmers can take over and produce everything the Jap grows. And we do not want them back when the war ends, either."<13>
In fact, internment was likely responsible for a massive influx in immigration from Mexico. Significant labor was necessary to take over the Japanese Americans' farms at a time when many American laborers were also being inducted into the Armed Forces. Ironically, thousands of Nikkei, temporarily released from the internment camps to harvest Western beet crops, were credited with saving this industry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment#Non-military_advocates_for_exclusion.2C_removal.2C_and_detention

So why weren't the Japanese removed from Hawaii too? Hmmmmmmm.

[dflprincess]

34. Oh yeah - which may explain why Japanese Americans who did not live in the West Coast states

or who lived in Hawaii were not interned.

[alarimer]

33. This was a completely disgraceful act on the part of Roosevelt

I DESPISE him for this; it negates ALL the good things he otherwise did. Our everlasting shame.