To those who want me to quit criticizing the Dems, and look at the big picture...I will:

[rateyes]

That's the long term big picture when we keep writing blank checks for the Iraq War. And, I'm still pissed.

[BridgeTheGap]

1. Hey, I'll criticize ANYONE who says we have to keep this shit up

GET OUT NOW!

[rateyes]

2. Yeah, me too...

I take it back...just like the leadership.

[roguevalley]

13. ditto, my darling. even if I didn't have kin in the war, I would be

TOTALLY AGAINST IT! God bless that father and his baby. The stain on our hands, the politicing and parsing going on RIGHT NOW AS PEOPLE WORRY THEIR POLITICAL FUTURE INSTEAD OF BEING DECENT HUMAN BEINGS will NEVER go away.

[Fredda Weinberg]

3. Don't pin that on Dems. We don't want to make it worse

We didn't start that fight ... the mid east has been in conflict for centuries. Changing policies - and people - takes time.

[rateyes]

4. No. we didn't start it...

but, we aren't ending it, either.

[RiverStone]

42. exactly!

[porphyrian]

5. How many of your family are you willing to sacrifice in the mean time?

There is no time to wait. It doesn't matter who started what, it needs to end, and yesterday. Any who are not making this happen now are guilty of allowing it to continue, and that is unacceptable.

[rateyes]

6. That's right. Those who stand by and let it happen with nothing but,

talk, are guilty, too.

[porphyrian]

7. Talk can be a very effective way of doing something, and may be all some people can do.

I'm speaking specifically of those in power, who have but to move a finger to end this.

[rateyes]

8. I agree completely.

:hi:

[Fredda Weinberg]

11. If only reality were so simple. Nothing worthwhile gets done with a wag n/t

[porphyrian]

14. Dogmatic horseshit.

Lives can be saved with something as small as a signature or a phone call. Delude yourself all you like, but don't expect everyone else to buy it.

[cali]

20. Really? You mean all that it would take to save lives

in Iraq is a phone call or signature. Could you be any more ludicrous?

[porphyrian]

34. I didn't say that, you did.

I was disputing the suggestion that it has to be a time consuming and difficult struggle every time. Big change can be made instantly. Saying otherwise is an excuse to not try.

[Fredda Weinberg]

23. You think Schindler's signature was small? He was a leading

industrialist of his day. The diplomats who saved refugees positioned themselves ... risking their livelihoods, indentifying with strangers.

If you want to make a difference, plan ahead. Dems are - '06 was not sufficient. Try to follow the logic - if '06 was not sufficient, we have a chance in '08. But the need for instant gratification is puerile.

[porphyrian]

35. I didn't say that, you did.

I said some lives can be saved with something as simple as a signature or a phone call, and that is true. Saying that saving lives has to be time consuming or difficult is making an excuse not to try to do it faster. This isn't about instant gratification, it's about saving fucking lives. This isn't a game and my reaction is not a tantrum.

[Fredda Weinberg]

10. None survived Hitler. Sorry, but that line don't work on me

I remember Vietnam ... everyone who entered the military since then took a calculated risk and I'm sorry, but they're paying an awful price.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

17. Talk about a disgusting judgemental comment

that's quite an accomplishment.

[porphyrian]

19. Aw, and I was relying on your acceptance and approval...

Whatever, random self-righteous opinion flinger.

[TahitiNut]

40. Sadly, that sounds like a partisan political calculation to me.

When someone on DU says "we" didn't start it, they're most often speaking as a Democrat rather than as an American voter and citizen ... or even as a human being. When the vast majority of Americans and human beings around the globe condemn such atrocities and the continuation of a brutal and destructive occupation, it's disgusting to me that anyone would pretend to wash their hands of it and point the still-soiled finger of blame without raising a fist to halt the killing.

The whiff of a partisan desire (and expectation) to benefit from the continuing abominations in Iraq is, imho, every bit as ethically and morally corrupt as the neoconservative appetite for a New World Order of corporate colonialism.

[Orsino]

43. Pin it on anyone who votes to fund it.

They, and we, own it.

[rateyes]

9. Disgusting what we do...

and what we won't do, sometimes. Isn't it?

[Totally Committed]

15. Anyone who votes to keep funding this horror deserves our criticism, or derision, and our disrespect

Period.

The Democratic Party should be ASHAMED. ASHAMED. Since they aren't I'll be ASHAMED for them... and I'll say so!

TC

[rateyes]

21. Yeah, me too...

I was being sarcastic.

[robinlynne]

36. absolutely.

[LeftCoast]

16. Shooting your own party in the foot doesn't necessarily end this war any sooner

Used to be I would come to DU to get away from RW rhetoric criticizing Dems. Now there's more here than anywhere else I go.

[cali]

18. Yep.

Never seen so much stinkin' self-righteousness in one place.

[rateyes]

22. Yeah, that's me....

being anti-war, and criticizing the leadership who said "no more blank checks" for writing those checks is right wing rhetoric, for sure! :sarcasm:

[rateyes]

24. And, BTW, it's the Democratic leadership...

who are shooting the party in the foot.

[bonito]

26. More Lieberman aipac pro war supporters

Always trying to suck us in to their conflicts those they can't buy off the try to talk over to.

[LeftCoast]

28. Hey. Careful who you're calling a Lieberman aipac supporter

If you're going to fire shots a dems. Aim at your own foot. Not mine.

[rateyes]

29. Well, I agree about Lieberman...

but, not all of those who disagree with me on this that they're in AIPAC's pocket. Yet, there are a bunch who are.

[robinlynne]

37. It is they who are ending the party. Stop the war, strengthen the democratic party.

Stand up to Bush, strengthen the party. FDR was elected 4 times in a row because HE MADE REAL CHANGES. He did not negotiate in round about ways to consider maybe doing little things. No he turned it upside down when that was what was called for. And that is called for right now.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

25. Obviously, even on a pro-democratic site, you get to criticize dems every damn day.

However, I wonder when those responsible for IMPOSING barbaric domestic and foreign policies are going to be politically and personally and financially and morally beaten to a pulp?

When is the majority of our negative energy going to be spent on demanding justice be waged on the criminals and profiteers and power-mongering manipulators who are fully responsible for the state of all things unlawful and immoral?

Every time our energy is directed at ANY ONE GROUP OR PERSON OTHER THAN THE PERPETRATORS, those criminals can perpetuate profiteering human suffering and death.

[rateyes]

30. Well, I agree that we should be beating up those responsible...

that's why I voted Democratic. I thought they would use their power to do that. It's not happening.

[robinlynne]

38. That is what we are doing. The way to demand justice is through our Dems!!

That is why we elected them.

[Hydra]

27. Rove has won again

Instead of ending this madness, we have cheerleaders that say it can't be stopped.

We should never have been there(Illegal invasion and occupation, btw)

We should not be there still

We should not be there until the hydrocarbon law is signed

We should not be looking at a "Korea" situation.

Instead, people are arguing that we need MORE! And these people are in our own party!!!

:puke:

[rateyes]

31. We're handing it over on a silver platter. nt

[robinlynne]

39. Edwards said it yesterday: It should not be a debate between less war and more war!

[Hydra]

41. Good!

He was my primary choice...too bad he panders to AIPAC. Those people scare me.

[defendandprotect]

32. ONLY support progressives in the Democatic Party ---

Cut off the DLC --
Feingold has an interesting "Progressive" minor movement going to get us out of Iraq ---

[rateyes]

33. That's a given...

NOT going to vote for a DLC corporate schill.