Several States Are Discussing Secession From The United States

[babylonsister]

Several States Are Discussing Secession From The United States
October 4th, 2007 · No Comments

When you read the headline of this brief story, it’s reminiscent of what occurred prior to the beginning of the Civil War. The news came as a surprise to me, as I wasn’t aware there was a “Secessionist” movement in the United States, but there it is, right before your eyes. What’s even more startling are the reasons the states wish to dissolve their partnership with the Union, and some of it actually makes sense:

Secessionists meeting in Tennessee

By BILL POOVEY, Associated Press WriterWed Oct 3, 3:15 AM ET

In an unlikely marriage of desire to secede from the United States, two advocacy groups from opposite political traditions — New England and the South — are sitting down to talk.

Tired of foreign wars and what they consider right-wing courts, the Middlebury Institute wants liberal states like Vermont to be able to secede peacefully.

That sounds just fine to the League of the South, a conservative group that refuses to give up on Southern independence.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071003/ap_on_re_us/secessionist_movement_1

When you look at the reasons for which they want to secede, it’s crystal clear that many of them/us are tired of living under oppression; These are a few of the reasons cited:

save themselves from an overbearing federal government.

If allowed to go their own way, New Englanders “probably would allow abortion and have gun control,” Hill said, while Southerners “would probably crack down on illegal immigration harder than it is being now.”

a fringe movement that gained new traction because of the Iraq war, rising oil prices and the formation of several pro-secession groups.

disillusioned by the Iraq war and federal imperialism, share the idea of states becoming independent republics.

Right now, they are labeled as “fringe groups”, but as government oppression grows stronger, their membership and supporters are growing, and it’s a concept I had never thought about before. Now, after reading the article, I’ve given it some serious thought - and while it’s as radical an idea of any I’ve heard, what better way to send Congress and President Bush/Cheney a message that will come across loud and clear!

more...

http://justanothercoverup.com/?p=280

[saracat]

1. Very interesting.

edited AGAIN for typo! Sheesh!

[Fredda Weinberg]

2. We are devo! n/t

[mediaman007]

3. I look forward to my taxes being spent on something constructive!

I look forward to debating in a conversational tone. I know that I can choose to vacation in Redneck Country, and I can wish them well when I leave.

[Clark2008]

9. You mean New England?

Because only bigots consider the entire South redneck.

[Toots]

13. The term actually began in Harlan Kentucky

It was about coal mining and miners forming a Union. The miners wore red handkerchiefs as sort of a uniform and were referred to as "rednecks", The sheriff of that town was named Hatfield and the head of the Mine owners police group was named McCoy. Hatfield was on the minors side and thus began the famous feud of the Hatfields and the McCoys...

[renie408]

24. That is interesting. Thanks. n/t

[renie408]

23. Gee, could you explain the 'leaving' part to all the other rude Yankees that have moved down here?

We would sure appreciate it. Thanks!!

[MrCoffee]

4. sounds like the Republic of Texas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas_(group)

[mitchtv]

5. That works for Calif.

getting tired of pitching in and getting shit on for a thanks. Turn those agricultural stations at the border into immigration control.

[alittlelark]

6. We should add Oregon and Washington too.

We'd be the 4th or 5th largest economy in the world.

[China_cat]

7. South Carolina has had articles of secession drawn up

for close to 15 years now. They just haven't implemented them.

Yet.

[NoPasaran]

8. Been there. Done that.

[Chipper Chat]

11. Vermont too.

http://www.vermontrepublic.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Vermont_Republic

[angrycarpenter]

10. should such a thing happen

the army would be ordered in and the congress of said state would be arrested and martial law imposed. The federal government would come down hard on any state that dared to try it.

[NavyDavy]

12. and rightly so?n and anyone that raises a weapon to try and

force a succession will be publicly executed as it should have been done after the firstcivil war. IMHO

[backscatter712]

17. Define rightly.

If the federal government's going to continue to drive this country into the ground, why shouldn't states secede?

[geomon666]

21. Probably because we already fought a civil war.

A second will undoubtedly be a thousand times more brutal than the first.

[Selatius]

16. Bah, didn't stop the Eastern Bloc countries from leaving the control of the USSR.

I don't think soldiers who are made to fight the corrupt wars of the federal government would be so cavalier on following such orders. When the Soviet hardliners launched a coup to try to reverse Gorbachev's reforms in 1991, the Red Army didn't cooperate; the soldiers didn't want a war in their backyard, and they hated the leadership, so the coup fizzled out. The hardliners were removed from power, and the Soviet Union was dissolved that December.

[angrycarpenter]

34. assume texas broke away

and closed all borders with the USA. Those interstate highways are considered a national asset. The feds would use any means to get them back. Any military bases that lie within it's borders are federal property and will not be given up. All trade with texas would be stopped immediately and severe penalties imposed on doing so. They would be starved out and would have to give it up. No good can come of it.

The federal government will not surrender one square inch of its territory, you can take that to the bank.

[Selatius]

35. Your scenario is unrealistic, and I refuse to entertain it.

Texas wouldn't secede unless it felt that it came down to the choice of staying on the Titanic or getting off. The same applies to every other state in the Union. I don't know about you, but I take the long view of things.

History shows that all great powers eventually fade away into history books, and our nation is no different. If it got to the point where the government was so universally disliked and considered untrustworthy and paralyzed and where many people talked about dissolving the government in favor of a new arrangement that better serves the several constituencies, you can pretty much bet that the days of the Republic are over. It is at that point that few if any soldiers would want to risk dying for a central government that has no support and is not loved. It's why many in Red Army ultimately laid down their arms and joined the demonstrations.

As it stands, secessionists are considered fringe, but time has always stood against powerful nations. The secessionists are going to win in the end. Now, you can take that to the bank.

[angrycarpenter]

37. of course it's unrealistic

It is unrealistic to talk of secession within the time frame of the main article (sending a message to Bush/Cheney).

All things must come to an end, you are right on that one. But we will not live to see the day when the federal government is so weak that it cannot take action to protect its interests domestically.

[knight_of_the_star]

36. Depends on what happens though

If the bulk of the country were to secede into several different blocks it is entirely possible the Army wouldn't hold together and break apart to join the new forming republics.

[L. Coyote]

14. This is what the Rs are up to. Then they get all the Fed land and minerals in the West!

[Lex]

15. Are the "states" (state gov't officials) officially discussing it

or just these groups who are on about it all the time?

[geomon666]

18. Just two different wacked out groups meeting and dreaming.

That's all this is.

[cali]

19. It may be two wacked out groups

but here in VT, the idea is being taken increasingly seriously.

[geomon666]

26. Well by all means, go ahead and try it.

I hope that the ensuing massacre won't be that horrific.

[cali]

29. Excuse me? Did I say I supported it?

I don't as a matter of fact. Little quick on the assumptions, aren't you?

[geomon666]

32. I didn't say you did.

You mentioned some people talk about it seriously. I was responding to that statement.

[Perry Logan]

20. The Southern states would implode within five minutes without their constant fix of Federal money.

That's probably the part of the "oppression" they don't mind so much.

[tom_paine]

22. While the Old American Republic was a relative force for enlightenment

principles of the Rule of Law, Equal Justice and Liberty over Tyranny, I owuld have said this was a most terrible idea and that the Civil War was fully justified to save it for the world.

Now, I am not so sure. Sentimentally, along with the slim hope that the Old Republic of America can still be restored, makes me reject the idea knee-jerk fashion.

This is a tough one, but as it becomes clearer (IF it becomes clearer instead of reversing course) that the Old Republic is now the Evil Empire, so to speak, maybe Balkanization by hook or by crook isn't so bad.

Who's to say? Peak Oil and Global Warming will force the issue, maybe within 50 years or less, so Balkanization may arrive out of resource poverty and necessity.

Glad I won't be around to see it.

[SPKrazy]

25. what if i'm in a state that wants to secede

and I want to secede from that state, come on now, there isn't going to be any secession, no matter how much we want to see some states/regions go and form their own union, our government is dependent on the taxes for one, and secondly, these truly are fringe groups, nothing like a little Yahoo inspired hysteria :rofl:

[warren pease]

27. Here in Baja Canada...

I've already personally seceded. It's just a matter of getting another 5 million or so Oregonians to make it official. And I think Washington's about ready to join in as well.

Weird thing is, in CA, OR and WA, you can sort of divide the reds from the blues vertically. East of the Cascades and other coastal ranges, these states are pretty red. But to the west, blue is very much in fashion. So maybe that's the dividing line.

I'd hate to see places like Fresno and Bakersfield and Hermiston and Yakima screw things up for the rest of us -- with deepest apologies to all DUers and other geographically misplaced progressives who, through no fault of their own, get to share real estate with some of the most reactionary elements this side of the Aryan Nations.


wp

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

28. Do you think they are serious? ARE THEY serious?

Mostly, I've heard the suggestion of "secession" by right-wing advocates.

I always imagined "they" were merely operatives of the fascist-corporacratic machine.

Well, I still believe "they" are,...what I just said.

:shrug:

[cali]

31. Yes, in Vermont they're serious.

And they're definitely NOT on the right. The main thrust is joining Canada.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

39. a catalyst, always,....for whom i do not know,...

[book_worm]

30. yeah, right that will happen.

[KamaAina]

33. We've been on top of this since yesterday

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3015286&mesg_id=3015286

[underpants]

38. The League of the South are neo-Confederates and racists

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=461
League of the South
Tuscaloosa, Ala.


Founded in 1994 as the Southern League, the overarching mission of the League of the South (LOS) is to accomplish what the Civil War did not — Southern secession.

Celtic history specialist and LOS President Michael Hill, a former professor, says he is working for "the revitalization of a general European cultural hegemony."

He adds that "he Southern League supports a return to a political and social system based on kith and kin rather than an impersonal state wedded to the idea of the universal rights of man.

At its core is a European population." The LOS is essentially theocratic, calling for the imposition of Christian doctrine on the apparatus of the state. It is also clearly racist in its attitude toward black people, a group that Hill once termed "a deadly and compliant underclass."

The LOS, with a membership of nearly 9,000 people organized into 96 chapters in 20 states, has worked with other racist groups like the Council of Conservative Citizens in promoting rallies to support the Confederate battle flag, among other things.

The LOS is unusual in that it is dressed out with Ph.D.s and therefore has a veneer of legitimacy. Besides Hill, the LOS board includes three doctorate-holders: Rockford Institute leader Thomas Fleming, retired professor Grady McWhiney and professor Clyde Wilson.

More here
http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp

[Eurobabe]

40. I wish VA would secede

that's looking like where I will end up, for the 3rd time!!! :woohoo:

[-..__...]

41. There'd be a double secession in New England

VT, ME and NH don't want any part of MA, CT and RI. Our fine neighbors to the North don't refer to MA residents as "Massholes" for nothing (I have no idea what CT and RI residents are called).

I also highly doubt that VT, ME and NH would allow (let alone even consider), any form of gun control in their states (unless the Massholes move in and subvert the legislature). :smoke:

[lonestarnot]

42. Oh brother.... sigh.

:rofl: