Question: Does anybody here seriously believe that ANY of the Republicans can win in 2008?

[mark414]

granted, if the election is legitimate...

Am I too optimistic? The only Republicans who are left are the uber-crazy ones and even they don't like their nominees...

You heard it hear first: no matter who the Dem nominee is in 2008, they will win.



Agree or Disagree?

[rzemanfl]

1. What makes you think the election will be legitimate? n/t

[mark414]

9. the question is, assuming it IS legitimate....

[daninthemoon]

2. They didn't actually win the last two. If we don't turn out a massive

landslide, anything can still happen with the rethug's shenanigans.

[liberalsoldier5]

44. They didn't win in 2004?

Did I miss something?

[rwheeler31]

3. Too optimistic yes, they have a lot of secrets to protect and they

will do anything. It will be tough.

[Kutjara]

4. I don't think the 'pugs want to win.

If they win, they'll have to deal with Iraq sinking deeper and deeper into the shit, while the domestic economy tanks. Much better to let some Democratic sap take the fall for "screwing things up." Then the 'pugs can "come to the rescue" in 2012 and make everything all right.

From the 'pug perspective, the best outcome would be Clinton winning the Presidency. They could all watch in glee as the wife of their most hated boogieman desperately tries to both fix the mess and figure out how deep the rabbit hole goes.

[daninthemoon]

16. Could be.

:freak: :dilemma:

[mattomjoe]

42. I've that thought too....

One of the reasons why I'm against Hillary being the Dem nominee is that, even if she wins the general election in '08, I think she'll be dogmeat in '12. We need a candidate for 8 years, and I don't think Hillary can do it.

[Xenotime]

5. Not a chance.

Any dem is better than *. The world knows it and is ready.

[Poiuyt]

6. It will hardly be a cakewalk

The Republicans are very good at winning elections. They're not afraid to get down in the gutter and fight like pit bulls. They look at politics as all out war. Couple that with the fact that a good percentage will vote Republican no matter what, and I think we will have a close race. If our nominee is Hillary, a lot of conservatives will come out to the polls just to defeat her, making it a very close race.

[skipos]

7. After the GOP scandals of Nixon and Agnew, Carter only beat Ford by 2%

Bush won't be running in 2008, and there will always be at least 40% of voters voting for each major party candidate. Getting to 50% isn't far fetched.

[Bitwit1234]

8. They stole two why not a third.

What do you think rove is doing. He is setting up all the back room dirty tricks to give it to the republicans.

[MercutioATC]

10. Question: Does anybody believe it will matter?

We have a Democratic majority in Congress. Even so, our own Democratic representatives frequently vote like Republicans. Hell, Congress held a vote on whether to denounce a political ad and not one Democrat stood up and said "Guys, this is ridiculous".

Dems have demonstrated that they will NOT start withdrawing troops from Iraq, they will NOT change education, the environment or health care. They won't even use common sense.

They're political animals. Their sole goal is to expand their own power base. They don't care about you.

So, does it really matter?

[mark414]

11. correction: one person called it ridiculous....

"The focus of the United States Senate should be on ending this war, not on criticizing newspaper advertisements. This amendment was a stunt designed only to score cheap political points while what we should be doing is focusing on the deadly serious challenge we face in Iraq. It's precisely this kind of political game-playing that makes most Americans cynical about Washington's ability to solve America's problems. By not casting a vote, I registered my protest against this empty politics. I registered my views on the ad itself the day it appeared.

"All of us respect the service of General Petraeus and all of our brave men and women in uniform. The way to honor that service is to give them a mission that is responsible, not to vote on amendments like the Cornyn amendment while we continue to pursue the wrong policy in Iraq."

- Barack Obama

[MercutioATC]

13. Yes, he made that statement to the PRESS, not in Congress...

My point was that nobody stood up and objected while the matter was being discussed. They voted (or abstained) and then spun their vote (or non-vote) to make themselves look good.

That's not leadership, it's political opportunism.

[lonestarnot]

12. If they cheat. But you didn't ask if we will let them get away with it again.

[muffin1]

14. I will never get my hopes up again

Granted, it doesn't look like they stand a chance in hell, but that's what I thought in 2000 and 2004. Never "misunderestimate" the criminal repuke.:evilfrown:

[wiggs]

15. I would think that a LOT of people on DU believe that a GOPr could win

in 2008. Those that have been paying attention know that there are institutions, corporations, media, branches of government, ruthless and immoral campaign approaches, polarized electorates, and global dynamics that have taken decades to culture and shape so that the powerful remain in power. The state we find ourselves in is no accident and those that have planned for it with heavy investments of time and money are not going to go away easily. In fact, they have never been stronger...

One can think of any number of scenarios in which a dem candidate and dem issues are smeared, framed, or otherwise made to be inappropriate given whatever is going on at the time. "They" control the events, the stories and the framing of the stories. We have been in a deep hole since before 9/11 and, granted, we are more aware of the depth of the hole, but I don't believe we're much closer to daylight than we were. (and each week we see more evidence that this is the case...DUrs are well aware of the number of ways that this administration continues to do whatever it wants.. there are at least four cases this week that boggle the mind).

And of course that's aside from election manipulation, for which we don't have many new controls since 2004.

This is not to say that we should do nothing if it is so hopeless...but we should work harder with the full knowledge of what we're up against.

[driver8]

17. Hell, I never thought Bush would get elected...silly me! n/t

[Swamp Rat]

18. They'll have to steal the election

again.

[sufrommich]

19. I don't think they can...

but I try not to say that out loud for fear of jinxing it. I know that is superstitious bullshit,but I feel the same way when the Wings are in the playoffs and playing a crappy team(i won't mention any names).Never say it's a sure thing!

[and-justice-for-all]

20. They would have to steal it...

Hey Wait a minute!!?

[AlinPA]

21. Guliani will be tough. I think it is possible for him to win in PA.

[stanwyck]

41. A northeastener with a name ending in a vowel

has an uphill climb. (I live in Atlanta.) Add to that his social liberalism (even if he's busy distancing himself from it now) and his frequent penchant for cross dressing (available on video) and I think he just has too much baggage. The marriages and messy divorces. His own daughter has vowed to vote for Obama. And his son doesn't speak to him.
Not sure that Caligula plays that well in the South and Midwest. The Northeast alone is not enough to put him over. And Hillary/Obama/Edwards is going to take the lion's share of the Northeast anyway.

[AlinPA]

48. I hope you are right about that. Thanks.

[Raine]

22. In this racist sexiest country

unless we put up someone like Lieberman they will beat us. I can't stand Lieberman so I'm not endorsing that idea...only saying. :-(

[ShadowLiberal]

23. I am very pessimistic about our chances for the WH, so yes I do think the repugs can win it in 08

I admit I am a pessimist usually, but really looking at things realistically, I don't have a good feeling about any of our top 3 right now.

Edwards - I already was questioning his chances after the haircut story, but now that he's accepted public financing Edwards is toast and done to me. I've read articles about the rules he'd have to abide to, and I'm convinced that anyone under public financing is in for being killed in negative attack ads in between after the primaries, and before the national democratic convention, because of the $50 million dollar spending limit.

Obama - As much as I used to like the guy early one, there's just been so many moments where his inexperience has shown that it's making me go "do we really want to risk running an inexperienced candidate when people will be looking for a strong leader to fight terrorism". Sure he could balance that out some with a good VP pick, but his poor debate performance is also worrying me.

Hillary - Her high negatives scare me to death, as do seeing all of the people here claiming "I'm never voting for Hillary even if she gets the nomination, I can't vote to support the DLC". While I'm sure at least half of these people will vote for her anyway if she gets the nomination, it still concerns me. And yet at the same time, lately I've been kind of starting to grudgingly admit to myself that Hillary might be the best choice we have in our top 3.

The thought of us facing Rudy really scares me, despite all of his baggage he's still unfortunately got that 9/11 image to too many people out there. At this point I'd feel best facing either John McCain or Mitt Romney in the general election. John McCain has shot to hell all of his independent support, and Mitt Romney would be very easy for us to paint as a flip flopper just like the RW did to John Kerry, and if it worked for them why can't it work for us? We've got tons of gold on Mitt, like him saying "I'm proud of never pardoning anyone as governor of Massachusetts", and "Bush should pardon Scooter Libby". Oh and then his flip flops on abortion and gay rights at convenient times to.

[TwilightGardener]

24. I think they might be throwing the game in '08--gonna retool the party for 2012, AFTER

a Democrat cleans up (read: takes blame for) Iraq.

[yurbud]

25. depends on how good the smear campaign is, which is only thing in Hillary's favor

she's survived the shitstorm before.

Unfortunately, I'm not too confident about what she will do when elected.

[mark414]

27. don't forget about that whole pesky 50 state primary thing first...

[yurbud]

29. I hope the primaries aren't as easy as Hillary thinks they will be.

[mark414]

31. amen to that

[Hamlette]

26. I used to say no way baby Bush could win...or Ronnie.

I don't say stuff like that any more

[ecstatic]

28. Are our elections secure yet? nt

[upi402]

30. Bush was re-selected in 2004. Anything is possible n/t

[TahitiNut]

32. I would never underestimate the Democratic Party's ability to blow an election.

I've seen it done far too many times. :shrug:

[mark414]

49. perhaps the most salient point raised on this thread

[knight_of_the_star]

33. Only if it isn't HRC

She's the only candidate who could motivate them to vote sad to say, which says a lot about the state of their party, not ours.

Then again we win no matter what if Ghouliani gets it.

[Rage for Order]

34. It's possible, I suppose

It's a given that each side will get about 30% of the vote - each party's solid base. The election is determined by the 40% in the middle (or, barring that, by Diebold)

[MadBadger]

35. I still think Rudy can win.

[dysfunctional press]

36. sadly, yes.

it depends on the full tickets on both sides, and the third party tickets...

and whether or not we're at war with iran, or there's another major terrorist strike.

there are a lot of variables, and still a lot of time to go.

[ConsAreLiars]

37. H. R. Clinton has a pretty good chance.

Oh, wait. I get confused at times.

[applegrove]

38. I disagree. I think only Hillary has pulled far enough ahead of Rudy

to say she would really win. I think Obama and Edwards likely would win the Presidential election. But some of the others on the slate would not win.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. If they can't win in '08 they should consider doing something useful for change.

Instead of pandering to the right wing of the party and voting with the Republicans.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

40. Yes, absolutely they could win...

Taking any of the following into account, they could take the WH:

- electronic voting fraud
- voter roll cleansing and depression tactics
- Rovian dirty tricks
- the spectre of Bill and Hillary Clinton back in the WH igniting the GOP base
- a too timid or pro-Iraq/Iran war Dem candidate who depresses the Dem base and turns off Indies

Much like 2004, the election is the Democrats to lose.

Sadly, too many of the Democrats appear to be right on time with providing the ammo for a loss.

[rasputin1952]

43. Nope....the GOP will have to stop picking candidates from

the vegetable bin if they hope to win in the 20 years...:D

[SergeyDovlatov]

45. judging from the fact that neocons are warming up to Hillary ...

Repugs are putting their chips on Hillary.

Just like Bill Clinton was the best republican president in last 100 (after Ronald Reagan) according to Greenspan. Neocons are betting that Hillary will carry their foreign policy forward.

http://www.counterpunch.org/frank07252007.html (Why Hillary Clinton has Always Been a Republican)

http://patterico.com/2007/09/25/bush-advises-hillary-clinton/

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8495 (Is Hillary Clinton a Neocon?)

[SergeyDovlatov]

46. judging from the fact that neocons are warming up to Hillary ...

Repugs are putting their chips on Hillary.

Just like Bill Clinton was the best republican president in last 100 (after Ronald Reagan) according to Greenspan. Neocons are betting that Hillary will carry their foreign policy forward.

http://www.counterpunch.org/frank07252007.html (Why Hillary Clinton has Always Been a Republican)

http://patterico.com/2007/09/25/bush-advises-hillary-clinton/

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8495 (Is Hillary Clinton a Neocon?)

[sampsonblk]

47. Nope. Not a chance

Most of the crooked things they did since 2000 were to benefit Bush, not the party. The party is screwed. They are left to clean up Bush's messes and take the blame for the stuff he did.