An interesting comparison of military medals & ribbons worn by various generals

[Oilwellian]

When, in mid-September, General David Petraeus testified before Congress on "progress" in Iraq, he appeared in full dress uniform with quite a stunning chestful of medals. The general is undoubtedly a tough bird. He was shot in the chest during a training-exercise accident and later broke his pelvis in a civilian skydiving landing, but until he went to Iraq in 2003, he had not been to war. In the wake of his testimony, the New York Times tried to offer an explanation for the provenance of at least some of those intimidating medals and ribbons -- including the United Nations Medal (for participants in joint UN operations), the National Defense Service Medal (for those serving during a declared national emergency, including 9/11) and the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal (for… well, you know…).


Petraeus is not alone. Here, for instance, is former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs General Peter Pace, a combat Marine in Vietnam, with one dazzling chestful of medals:
one
(photo won't appear for some odd reason)

and one of ribbons:


Medal and ribbon escalation has been long on the rise in the U.S. military. Here, for instance, was General William Westmoreland, who commanded U.S. forces in Vietnam, sporting his chestful back in that distant era.


But the strange thing is: As you continue heading back in time, as, in fact, U.S. generals become more successful, those ribbons and medals shrink -- and not because the men weren't highly decorated either. General Dwight D. Eisenhower, who won World War II in Europe for the Allies seems, in his period of glory, to have chosen to wear between one and three rows.


And General George C. Marshall, who oversaw all of World War II, after a distinguished career in the military, can be seen in photos wearing but three rows as well.


It's hard to believe that there isn't a correlation here -- that, in fact, there isn't also a comparison to be made. For all the world, when I saw Petraeus on display, I thought of the full-dress look of Soviet generals, not to say the Soviet Union's leader Leonid Brezhnev, back in the sclerotic 1980s when, ambushed in Afghanistan, they were on the way down.



Like the USSR then, the U.S., only a few years back hailed as the planet's New Rome, has the look of a superpower in distress -- and it's hard to believe that generals with such chests full of medals, whether in the former USSR or the present USA, have the kind of perspective that actually leads to winning wars -- or to assessing a losing war correctly. Consider what a retired military officer, Lieutenant Colonel William Astore, has to say on the subject.

(More)
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174845/astore_on_a_military_bemedaled_bothered_and_beleaguered

[Fresh_Start]

1. Do you think its overcompensation?

Like the ones wearing the medals are BS artists rather than real leader/heroes?

[soothsayer]

3. I think it's hilariously juvenile (like kids with stickers) but that's just me

[rockymountaindem]

2. There are a lot more medals to be won these days, though

In the past, aside from valor medals and the occasional campaign medal, there weren't all that many medals one could win. For instance, the Legion of Merit wasn't created until the 40's. The Bronze Star, same thing. All of the medals specifically for aircrew and missile crew weren't created until WWII or later. So the fact is, that for someone coming up through the ranks during the pre-WWII era, there just weren't that many medals one could win without being deployed in all of our various expeditions in Latin America.

[Oilwellian]

7. I take it you didn't read the entire article

Lt. Col. William Astore wrote:

Medals and ribbons, for instance, have proliferated to such an extent that few have any real meaning. Officers openly sneer about "PCS medals," almost pro forma awards received after a "permanent change in station" -- that is, a new assignment, no matter how peaceable. Many medals shout "been there," rather than "done that." Some awards and decorations today are tied more to the military rank of the recipient than to objective measures of merit. Indeed, ribbons have proliferated like nuclear missiles during the Cold War. I counted nine rows on Petraeus' left breast during his Congressional hearings. If they were a valid metric across time, he would be roughly thrice as capable and valorous as George C. Marshall, perhaps America's greatest soldier-statesman, who somehow ran and won a world war while wearing only three rows of ribbons.

[Poiuyt]

4. There are some enormous egos here

[Spazito]

5. It seems to me they should wear only those ribbons, honors they

earned in actual combat and not the 'political' ones they earned while climbing the ladder in peace time or while safe in D.C., it would have more credibility to me anyway.

[Octafish]

6. Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, USMC, won two Medals of Honor.

Gen. Butler deserves two more:

He said "War is a racket" and "I was a gangster for capitalism."



He also stopped the coup against FDR.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

17. HE SEEMS LIKE AN HONEST ONE.

[karlrschneider]

8. Who the fuck spends the time necessary to pin all that shit on a shirt?

Why don't they just issue a Big Penis Medal to cover all that other shit?
:eyes:

[Oilwellian]

9. LOL Karl

Your comment gives new meaning to the term "pin pricked." :D

[Recursion]

18. You pin them all to a little piece of cardboard

And then pin the cardboard to your shirt or jacket.

[usaftmo]

21. My "shit" is 4 rows,

and I proudly take the time to pin them on my shirt. Not only that, but when wearing blues I also wear my tie even when not required. I look good in it...I feel good in it...and it makes me proud to be a member of the military.

I do agree that some Generals have an overly excessive number of medals/decorations.

Depending on the type of uniform worn, the medals/decorations shown can be either all, some, or none.

Several common medals/decorations of today didn't exist during World War II and shortly afterwards.

There are companies that custom sell the medals/decorations; it's all 1 piece and much lighter (also looks better) than buying/putting together each medal/decoration...although it's very expensive.

[karlrschneider]

28. I threw away all that shit as soon as they gave them to me.

...

[usaftmo]

30. Did you also throw away the points you get when

trying to get promoted?
:think:

[Crabby Appleton]

29. The ribbons are attached to a mounting device called

a "ribbon bar holder" that pins on as a one piece unit

http://alicepacks.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Shelf/ASP/Hierarchy/050T.html




the medal ribbons slide on from the ends of the holder.

[tabasco]

10. Great post!

I LMAO when I got to Brezhnev.

[Oilwellian]

16. My exact same response

:D He must have developed back trouble from wearing all of those medals.

[L. Coyote]

11. If I wore all my 4-H medals, these guys would look like privates LOL

I got 4 Chicken awards .... :rofl:

[knight_of_the_star]

12. Here's another one

http://www.amba.lu/pics/Gen.%20George%20S.%20Patton,%20Jr.%201945.jpg

And Patton had a reputation for being a snappy, if somewhat outlandish dresser for the period.

[KG]

13. diiference between ike and petreus relects the rise of militarism in the US

it's not a good thing.

[Oilwellian]

14. Exactly KG

and glorified nationalism.

Good to see you, by the way. I think I met you at a peace rally in D.C. a couple of years ago. :hi:

[KG]

31. I remember it well, captured on film!

:hi:

[Oilwellian]

33. Well looky there...

You dog you! :D :hi:

[snot]

15. The longer the medals,

the shorter the _____?

[Recursion]

19. *some* of this is not their fault (though it wasn't Brezhnev's fault either)

If Generals Pace or Petraeus are authorized to wear X, Y, and Z medal, they are also required to wear them. Ribbons and medals have proliferated in the past 3 decades or so, but that's not the fault of those who wear them.

[Thothmes]

27. Breshnev to my knowledge was never a Marshall of the Soviet Union

[eridani]

20. I'm counting 10 for Petraeus and 15 for Brezhnev

So we are only 2/3 of the way to imperial breakdown using the medal count yardstick.

[Thothmes]

26. Brezhnev

The Soviet Union allows individuals to wear add a ribbon or medal for each award of the same decoration. If you earned 5 good conduct medals in the Soviet army you would wear 5 good conduct ribbons/medals. In the U.S. multiple awards of the same decoration are indicated by little stars on the ribbon. A small silver star on a good conduct ribbon/medal indicates 5 awards. Also notice Brezhnev is wearing the rank of a Marshall of the Soviet Union. Do not think he earned it.

[OneBlueSky]

22. although my dad had been awarded more, he never wore more than six . . .

of his ribbons -- two rows of three . . . I think he just liked the way the two rows looked on his uniform . . .

[Hekate]

23. The difference in the size of the stars on their shoulders is amazing. Ike's are so modest!

Pace has a row of gigantic stars on each shoulder, AND on both sides of his shirt collar for good measure!

Hekate

[Swamp Rat]

24. EXCELLENT post!!!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[14thColony]

25. This has become a joke

among some of us in the military right now. The proliferation of "I was there" medals and ribbons (not all ribbons represent a medal, BTW) has gotten utterly out of control. I just got back from a year in Afghanistan, and I think my medal/ribbon count went up by 5 or 6, just for converting oxygen to CO2 in a war zone. If I wear everything (which I don't even though I'm supposed to) I look like a Latin American Field Marshal. The really sad part is that medals are very much tied to rank nowadays. I got a Bronze Star for doing a semi-dangerous but not all that tough job in Afghanistan (tried to get it downgraded to something realistic but was told to shut up and color), but meanwhile soldiers who got shot at every day and did really dangerous stuff got denied the same medal because their rank didn't warrant it. It is a system turned on its head. And it's so clear they create this eye-candy (our usual phrase for it) to placate us with pretty baubles. To paraphrase Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles, "here you go boys, have some medals in lieu of pay."

[Oilwellian]

32. Very interesting 14th Colony

It's good to hear an opinion from someone in the military and welcome to DU. :hi: