This Lady That Died In Police Custody By Supposedly Choking Herself....

[global1]

with her shakle chain is a curious story.

I have a couple of questions that haven't been discussed in news accounts that I have heard about this matter.

First, if she was going to an alcoholic treatment program - why was she at the airport by herself? Why wasn't her husband or family with her to provide support in this situation?

Second, there seems to be questions as to how she could choke herself given the way she was chained to the bench. Her family say they don't believe it could happen. Now - wouldn't there be pictures of the 'crime scene'. Wouldn't the police send in their photographers to document the state in which she was found? There's been no mention of this on the news accounts.

Third, I know they did an autopsy but I'm told the family wants a second opinion and the coroner is not releasing certain organs. Why would they extract organs from the body? Did they do a blood alcohol test? Did they document whether or not she was under the influence of alcohol during her outbreak?

Just wondering. I'm not saying it couldn't have happened the way they are portraying it - but the above questions seem like reasonable queries in such a situation. Why aren't these being addressed?

[rusty quoin]

1. the coroner is not releasing certain organs.

Is that standard procedure?

[malaise]

6. I'm betting heart attack

but they kept her heart, brain and another organ. I don't care how much she was screaming and whether she was traveling on her own. Sorry - Bush's America is violating basic citizen's rights. People have been screaming after missing flights for decades.

[hedgehog]

12. So, imagine this headline: Police ignore woman screaming in

terminal, she dies from fatal seizure.

There is a reason people in withdrawal are frequently hospitalized. My mother nursed alcoholics and all kids of drug addicts. She says coming off of alcohol is the worst and most dangerous. Here's one possible scenario: the woman took her last drink the day before she got on the plane. Landing in Phoenix, she was in deep withdrawal. She wasn't met at the airport as planned. She began to hallucinate. She didn't see the proverbial little pink elephants, she saw people all around her accusing her of being a terrorist. The police couldn't calm her
down, so they arrested her and placed her in a holding cell. They assumed that by shackling her to a bench, she couldn't hurt herself or them. Once in the holding cell, she had a heart attack or stroke as a result of alcohol withdrawal.

Among the symptoms of alcohol withdrawal /Delirium tremens:
Emotional volatility, rapid emotional changes
Irritability
Fear
Agitation
Hallucination
Confusion
Stomach Pain

Among the complications:
Seizures
Heart arrhythmias, may be life-threatening
Injury from falls during seizures
Injury to self or others caused by mental state (confusion/delirium)

http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic123.htm

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000766.htm


Maybe we need to start teaming cops with paramedics with extra training in recognizing mental illness, but I wouldn't put the blame on the three guys involved here nor would I put my tin hat just yet.

[groovedaddy]

2. You can't strangle yourself - you would pass out first

Hanging is the only way I know of to do that.

[hedgehog]

5. And people who practice auto-erotic asphyxiation never

kill themselves either.

I don't know what happened in that room. I don't know if the chain strangled her or if she died because she was in a physical crisis that the cops didn't recognize. I do know that speculation that the cops deliberately killed her seems totally outlandish.

[tekisui]

8. I don't claim to know what happened,

I don't think anyone is suggesting she was intentionally killed. She may have been strong armed by the police. They could have infected injuries on her, left her for 10 minutes and she died due to some complication.

It is strange,none the less. Maybe they didn't release some organs because they were badly bruised and/or in very bad shape from alcohol abuse.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Not true.

People can die from holding their breath too long.

[hedgehog]

3. The cops on the scene weren't concerned about documenting what happened.

They were busy trying to save her life.

I think cops all over the country are faced with people who are angry, people who are drunk, people who are confused by drugs or mental illness. Generally, they are dealing with people from the lower class. They have a limited repitoire of techniques designed to get the person under control without getting themselves hurt. Tasers have come into a lot of criticism here at DU, but the NYC police department has had more than one case in which a family called them about a loved one waving a knife and the situation ended with the loved one being shot. Careful reading of the articles about this case indicates that the cops at the Phoenix airport confront people for disorderly conduct two or three times a day.This case has achieved national interst because the woman was white, she was well off and she died.

[Drifter]

4. Question #2 ...

I would like to think that the "way they found her" was disturbed in an attempt to save her. In other words, I hope their first reaction was to try to help her, and not document the way they found her.

And to the other response about "strangling yourself". Hanging is ONE way to strangle yourself. There are countless other ways that fit into the accidental strangulation situation.

Cheers
Drifter

[global1]

7. Back To Question #1 .....

I just heard another account of this incident on MSNBC and they are saying the family says she was 'suicidal' and really messed up. Again - the question - if she was so problematic - why would they let her out of their sight? Why didn't somebody accompany her on her trip to check herself into alcoholic rehab?

This to me makes the family seem irresponsible. Particularly if she was as messed up as they are now saying she was.

[adnoid]

11. I just went through this...

I just spent Sunday and Monday accompanying a buddy to a rehab facility, at the recommendation of the facility's admissions coordinator. There is no way to fully describe this process if you have not been through it - and I don't think I could do it again.

The person is addicted to alcohol - if you don't let them drink they can go into convulsions and even die. However, if they have too much they become so intoxicated the airline will not let them board. The job of the escort is to maintain them in a band between uncontrolled withdrawal and uncontrolled antisocial behavior until you get to the destination where they can be detoxed medically.

Without a doubt, if I had not gone along, as well as stripped him of all his money and credit cards for the trip, he's be in jail after being pulled out of an airport bar or out of a plane.

I don't know what happened to this gal when she was in custody, but sending someone to rehab via public transportation where there are places to buy drinks around every corner was irresponsible and doomed to failure.

[Warpy]

10. First, her family had been down that road before

and probably were sick of drama. Sometimes it boils down to "Fixing you is not my job, it's yours."

Second, the lack of photos is puzzling, but I doubt they'd be released to the public in deference to the family's wishes. People at the inquest will see them. I can't imagine that they'd have neglected to take them, even in a situation when they were trying to save her life.

Third, in every autopsy, organs are removed and weighed, stomach contents are documented, and all organs are examined for signs of trauma or disease process. A tox screen of both serum and urine is SOP.

My question is why she was left in handcuffs, alone and out of sight. That's the part that stinks to high heaven.

[terisan]

13. She is an adult individual, I don't see how her family accompanying her is pertinent to her death.

I think it is realistic for us to expect that an adult individual should be able to travel freely from one airport to another, have a breakdown, create a disturbance, and not die in while in custody of the state.

One's family cannot, under our system of government, force escort upon an individual.

I