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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 03:28 PM
Original message
"Most of the bill is secret."
Democrats hold both houses of Congress. One of the last things I expected to see was a statement like that in an AP article.

All we have done since last November is keep an eye out, send out emails, make phone calls....while our own party leaders try to slip bills though in secret.

Senate Approves Intelligence Bill

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Senate has scrapped its bid to obtain the archive of daily intelligence briefings given to the president on Iraq prior to the 2003 invasion. That request was among several controversial provisions dropped from an intelligence bill, leading to the measure's unanimous Senate passage Wednesday.

The provision sought to give the Senate and House intelligence committees access to all presidential daily briefs between 1997 and 2003 that referred to Iraq — an attempt to determine whether the White House mischaracterized intelligence prior to the war. Senate Republicans objected, saying the documents had already been reviewed by an independent commission, according to a congressional official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly.

The final version of the bill also dropped a requirement that the director of national intelligence conduct an assessment of the effects of global climate change on national security. The overall legislation would give Congress' approval for the whole range of intelligence programs over the coming year, including spy satellites and eavesdropping, human spying and battlefield collection, along with recommended spending levels. Most of the bill is secret.

The House approved its own version of the bill in May, and the two chambers now must work out differences between the two versions.


While we were hearing in the press how they were standing up, they were capitulating.

And since most of the bill is secret we really don't know what's in it after all.

And now we are having to watch and send mail and make phone calls by the ACLU, that the legislation to give Bush more power is coming in the next few weeks.

But since so much is secret now, we won't know when it happens.

Critical votes within 3 weeks could grant vast new spying powers to Bush

It’s October and before this month is over, we’ll know which members of Congress stood up for civil liberties and which ones failed freedom. Our job now is to put them on notice — before they vote — that we won’t tolerate wavering, waffling, or wimping out.

The ACLU’s Don’t Wait for ’08 campaign — a 100-day effort urging Congress to restore liberties lost during the relentless Bush assault on our rights — is at a critical “make-or-break” point with FISA votes coming as early as next week. Unbelievably, there’s a push to make permanent the vast new spying powers that Congress gave to the President for a six-month period that ends in February, 2008.

Help us continue the FISA Flood of 2007 by overwhelming Congress with your voice demanding immediate action to defend freedom. Write. Call. Demand Action. Make noise now before our rights are stripped away permanently.


Well, I am not sure we will actually know anymore. So much is done in secret.

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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Gosh, we'd better just blindly trust the members of the Intelligence Committees, then, huh?
Hope they're good, ethical people. :sarcasm:
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. I am damned sick and tired of both parties telling me
that they keep this shit secret for our own good. Bullshit. They keep it secret for their own damned good.

Who do these people work for? It's certainly not us.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Maybe they work for uh, 0, what is the name of that firm -
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 12:52 PM by truedelphi
Dark Liquid? Ominous Fluid?

Oh yeah, BlackWater... They are allowed to shoot innocent civilians in Iraq to get them primed to come home and shoot innocent civilians here at home
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. Let me know
When martial law is instituted.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. See also here...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1982420&mesg_id=1982503

Now tell me again how these gutless bastards are holding the * Junta to account....:grr:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Now read this....either the media is just wrong or is lying.
or they don't know what is going on. This directly conflicts with the Raw Story article.

From today:

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2007/10/05/ap/headlines/d8s3civ00.txt

"CIA director Gen. Michael Hayden issued a memo to agency employees Friday that said the CIA has not withheld information from Congress and the legal opinion has not "opened the door" to harsher interrogation techniques than the law allows.

But House and Senate Democrats disagree that there is sufficient clarity on the matter, and are demanding to see the memos. Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller, D-WVa., said in a statement Friday he is "tired of these games."

"They can't say that Congress has been fully briefed while refusing to turn over key documents used to justify the legality of the program," Rockefeller said.

House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers and Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., promised a congressional inquiry.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. "passed by voice vote"
http://public.cq.com/docs/cqm/cqmidday110-000002598908.html

The fiscal 2008 legislation (HR 2082) was passed by voice vote after the Senate adopted a substitute amendment that removed or watered down provisions fought by Republicans. Among those dropped was a requirement that President Bush hand over Iraq-related intelligence briefing documents known as the President’s Daily Briefing dating back to the period before the war began in March 2003.


It is, my friends, called a cave in....and doesn't a voice vote mean no record of who voted which way?
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. Look at all the horrifying, sickening stuff we learn that ISN'T secret...I can only imagine. nt
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. good thing America's govt. is of/by/for the people isn't it?
otherwise, no telling what might get slipped by us...

oh wait...
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MzNov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. thank the goddess for the ACLU. We sure as Jerry Falwell went to hell

don't have anyone else looking out for our interests. WE THE PEOPLE need an advocate, our party "leadership" is ignoring us.

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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. WTF???? a SECRET LAW?
:speechless:

-Hoot
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hope they don't back down on these memos.
http://public.cq.com/docs/cqt/news110-000002600214.html

"Top Democrats in Congress, saying Thursday they were caught off guard by new revelations about the Bush administration’s harsh interrogation policies, demanded documents, planned hearings and even considered perjury investigations.

The flurry of activity was prompted by a report in The New York Times about two secret 2005 Justice Department memos, later acknowledged by the administration. One of them reportedly authorized the combined use of several harsh interrogation tactics, such as simulated drowning or “waterboarding,” head slapping and frigid temperatures, despite a public statement by Justice in 2004 that torture was “abhorrent.” According to the Times, the memos are still in effect.

Leaders of the House and Senate Judiciary, Intelligence and Armed Services committees pressed for the documents. Senate Foreign Relations Chairman Joseph R. Biden Jr., D-Del., urged Congress to pass his legislation (S 1876) calling for a ban to the mistreatment of all detainees.

Several Democrats condemned the practices described in the article, including Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev."
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. According to Raw Story they DID back down on secret prison memos.
"Democrats also dropped a demand for the Director of Central Intelligence to identify and hand over documentation related to secret prisons run by the US government around the world and operations involving extraordinary rendition.

Sources tell RAW STORY that although Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell was not willing to provide the information to relevant oversight Senate committees, the Committee felt comfortable in removing the requirement from the authorization bill because the Director of Central Intelligence, General Michael Hayden, had given them “everything we needed.”


http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Backing_down_on_demands_for_Iraq_1005.html

"Sources close to the Senate Intelligence Committee say one of the compromises Democrats made to ensure the bill’s passage was to remove language demanding the White House turn over all Presidential Daily Briefings on Iraq prior to the 2003 invasion. Democrats are said to have been hoping to establish whether President Bush mischaracterized intelligence in the lead-up to the conflict.

“The provision on the PDBs was dropped because Republicans objected and were blocking consideration of the bill,” a Senate source said Wednesday"

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. Government is much too important to be left up to the People.
The Rich Plutocrats know what is best for the little people.
We are soooo ungrateful.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Our own party shutting us out...it concerns me.
I was critical when the Republicans did things secretly, and I will be so when our own party does it.

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Don't forget the "Secret Free Trade Deal".
Pelosi and Rangel negotiated it directly with Bush* shortly after gaining the majority.
Human Rights, Environmental Rights, LABOR, and the rest of the Democratic Caucus were shut out of the negotiations because, according to Rangel, "They would only get in the way."

BTW:madfloridian, Please keep up the good work!
I always read your threads, and appreciate the info.
:hi:

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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. It is a funding bill, not a secret law. Get a grip. Nothing new here!
This is always a secret aspect of military spending.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Do not use the words "get a grip" to me, please.
It is infuriating. They are giving up much oversight in this bill. It does not matter to me if it is a bill, law, whatever.....they are doing it in secret and not being open with us on any of it.

NOT on FISA, NOT on the trade deals, NOT on much of anything.

When someone tells me to "get a grip" when I have posted something alarming....then they are defending the indefensible.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-05-07 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. Say NO to FISA giving AT&T and Verizon immunity for warrantless wiretaps
Edited on Fri Oct-05-07 11:22 PM by McCamy Taylor
which Congressional Democrats said that they were ready to do in the September NYT!.

This is one of the main reasons why Democrats might decide to capitulate on FISA, allowing the WH to insert all kinds of unsavory unConstitutional legislation so that Telecommunications Giants AT&T and Verizon (which are now giving heavily to Dems as well as the GOP) can squash the civil suits that are proceeding against them in court. The payoff for Congressional Dems? Money in their coffers before next falls elections.

Make them understand that their constituents want to see AT&T and Verizon held to account for breaking the law. Qwest refused to comply with Bush's order to spy on Americans because it was illegal and the DOJ has been prosecuting Qwest for all kinds of stuff. If AT&T and Verizon do not pay a price for breaking the law, this will happen again.
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
20. If you think Clinton doesn't support most of Bush's policies just look at Bill's record.
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 09:57 AM by bushmeat
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
22. It's ever so nice have a "transparant government".
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