So is Nader going to try to help the GOP again this time?

[Taverner]

Just wondering if there have been any rumblings from the bottom feeders on this one...

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

1. If the election was close enough for a Nader to make a difference, whether Clinton is the nominee or

not, it would be a clear sign that the election system is irrevocably broken.

[Taverner]

2. No it would just mean that some voters are selfish bastards

Just like in 2000, only this time they should know better.

[EFerrari]

5. Third party voters didn't steal 2000, BushCo did.

And, it's pretty sad when you have to blame a handful of disgusted voters for what the whole Democratic Party apparatus couldn't manage in 2000.

For my part, I wish we had FIVE parties competing for our vote. Maybe they'd be more responsive if they were actually in competition.

The way it is now, voters despair and drop out. That may be good for the corporati but it's not good for VOTERS.

[Taverner]

9. If the Nader voters would have held their nose and voted Gore, we would have won

For the record, we don't have five parties, we have two. If wishes were fishes we all would eat...

[EFerrari]

12. No, they were going to steal it anyway.

Just like they stole 2004 when the Green Party practically committed hari kari over whether to field a candidate at all. It was in the bag.

[Taverner]

16. Yes they stole 2000 and 2004 and tried to steal 2006

But they had to make a bet with their margins - and their bet would have failed in 2000 if the Naderites voted Dem.

[EFerrari]

18. I've been devoting much too much time to this issue since

I watched them steal Kerry's election.

With electronic voting, there is no "margin" any more, Taverner.

That's one reason why the corporate ho media has been attacking Debra Bowen. Because she's fighting back.

Also check out (re: 2006) "Landslide denied". It will peel back your eyelids.

[roody]

41. They did steal 2006.

The war is escalated; no health care, no safety nets. No impeachment; no constitution restored. Corporate rules continues.

[EFerrari]

50. Not to mention, due to vote shaving all over

our majority is only nominal. :grr:

[pnwmom]

19. 97,000 Florida voters voted for Nader and Bush stole the election by

less than 600 votes -- less than 1% of all the votes Nader got. If Nader had followed the advice of many of his supporters and not campaigned in the key swing states, Gore easily would have carried Florida, and the election never would have ended up being decided by the Supreme Court.

But Nader hated Gore and wanted to teach the Dems a lesson and show everyone how powerful he was. So he bears a great deal of responsibility for the mess we're in now.

[EFerrari]

32. Bush didn't steal the election by less than 600 votes.

Bush stole the election on the backs of thousands of disenfranchised Black voters. And remember, even News Corp acknowledged that Gore won.

They were going to steal it Nader or no Nader.

[pnwmom]

42. The final vote count, after stealing, was within 600 votes. So if just a tiny

fraction of Nader's voters had voted for Gore, history would have changed.

Nader couldn't stop the Rethugs from disenfranchising black voters. But he sure as hell could have influenced some of his devotees to vote for Gore instead -- and Gore would have been sworn in as President.

[EFerrari]

43. I understand the resentment against Nader, I really do.

But even if Nader hadn't run, Jeb was going to deliver Florida.

[pnwmom]

44. He meant to, but he wouldn't have succeeded, any more than Rove

and the rest of the Rethugs succeeded in 2006.

If the vote count is lopsided enough, they can't steal enough votes without detection.

[EFerrari]

46. Ohio had RIOTS on election night 2004. It didn't make any

difference.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Not nearly as much as the "moderate" dems who voted for Bush.

[TahitiNut]

34. It falls on deaf ears.

Isn't it terrific we have another "blame the 'leftists' for the failings of the Quislings" thread? After all, DU wouldn't be DU without some self-serving blame-shifting each day ... and hell, it must be a whole week since we had the last 2-minute-hate with Nader as the target.
:shrug:

[charlie]

45. They should just kidnap him

and lock him in a safe in the bottom of the sea. If Nader's where the Nexus of All Evil resides, problem solved, nuthin' but good times ahead, right?

The self-proclaimed "practical" Dems haven't noticed that their protection racket credo -- Give Us Your Vote or Republicans Will Fuck Your Shit Up -- has become threadbare and moldy after decades of use. And throwing Republican unity in everybody's face as the model of success only highlights their sense of entitlement, as we watch Repub hopefuls do their usual pilgrimages to the reactionary cuckooland of Bob Jones, while Dems squirm and crawl under the desk if someone mentions a moderately left group like MoveOn. If the Clinton years, where a president broke out of Republican constraints by making them lament "He's stealing our issues!" was a high water mark for the party, then any placeholder Dem who isn't arrested or assassinated deserves a laudatory medal.

[TahitiNut]

47. Well said. It reminds me of all manner of scapegoating ...

... like the witch-hunts in the 17th century. It's easier to burn a witch than learn how to grow crops or keep drinking water clean. The behavior of 'centrist' DINOs in attacking the left just repels folks who KNOW that Nader isn't the one who deregulated corporations, screwed the working class, and filled his pockets with as much taxpayer money as he could find. The Nader-hating is indistinguishable from GOP liberal-hating. Indistinguishable.

[charlie]

56. And how...

It's weird entertainment watching them paper their activities with the thin veneer of their "principles" as they drift into ever more dissonant realms of a politburo-enforced reality, eg, kicking Nader while they prop up Third Party Joe.

[11 Bravo]

4. Try again later.

The "more ideologically pure than thou" crowd is currently occupied. From 9:00 - 5:00 Naderites are busy saving the world from the dreaded centrist Democrats. (And if their zeal happens to put an occasional jug-eared little prick into office, hey, you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.) But don't worry. They'll be along to correct you soon enough.

[daninthemoon]

6. I sure hope not, but it is still way too early to know. I'm pretty sure

he still doesn't believe that that's what happened last time. Glass half full: there is talk the "Christian" coalition may split off if Ghouliani gets the nomination. The tables may be turned this time.

[Taverner]

11. Yes I'm hoping that happens, and the CC candidate sucks off a nice 2-10%

Paybacks are a bitch!

[applegrove]

7. No but... Cynthia McKinney to Announce Presidential Campaign

:scared:

Don't get me wrong I don't hate the greens. It is just that it could have the same effect Nader had in 2000 and then the Dem nominee would have to beat the GOP by a much wider margin.

[monktonman]

10. Cynthia who????

[EFerrari]

14. Cynthia Impeach Bush and Your 9/11 Commission Report was a joke

McKinney.

Too bad more prominent Democrats avoid the obvious.

[monktonman]

21. Like I said....Cynthia who?

[ProudDad]

54. Woohoo

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

Finally, someone to vote for in the General if Kucinich doesn't get the nomination!!!

[still_one]

8. not this time, unless of course he runs as a republican /nt

[EFerrari]

13. Btw, I heard a rumor today that McKinney may run as a Green. n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

23. according to this site

she has already withdrawn her name from consideration

http://www.allthingscynthiamckinney.com./node/100

[EFerrari]

31. Thanks, MonkeyFunk. n/t

[EFerrari]

48. I just got an email from the CA Greens that says she's going to declare. n/t

[depakid]

15. If it ends up Hillary vs the GOP

A third party candidate would actually be a good thing. It would help progressives on the state and local level from her negative coattails.

[Taverner]

17. That's what they said about Nader

And you can all see how well Progressives did under 8 years of Bush. Hell, the Green Party is all over the place now isn't it?

[depakid]

20. and there was actually some truth to that

Nader did in fact bring out people who otherwise wouldn't have voted.

Frankly, seems to the trouble here results from people who enable and legitimize far right policies, regardless of their nominal affiliation.

In 2006, we just won our legislature back after 10 nightmare years- and we actually got something positive done. Should Hillary get the nomination, she's going to bring out every right wing loon who would otherwise have been discouraged- while at the same time, alienating the progressive base. Kiss the legislature goodbye- excepting of course, that there's another candidate to vote for.

[nosmokes]

24. Hillary v GOPosse, not enough difference to see daylight b'twn 'em

With the vast number of people in this coutry in all our different situations from single unemployed mother in urban settings to polyamorous families in rural communities w/o minor children living at home, to the homeless and everything in between, why do you and the rest of the status quoers(like it's working so well) insist on cramming everyone into one of two boxes? At the very least if we had multiple parties it would cost big busuness more money because they'd hafta buy more politicians.

[Ravy]

22. No, but the Naderites will. nt

[MannyGoldstein]

25. Because The "We Suck Slightly Less" Democrats Have been Working So Well For Us

The Clintonian strategy, now widely-adopted among Democrats, of staying oh-so-slightly to the left of the Republicans and saying "Who else you gonna vote for, assholes?" is working out so well for our country.

Gee, if we had someone else to vote for, the We Suck Slightly Less Democrats might actually have to take a break from protecting war, torture, and unbridled corporate greed and actually do something for The People. That would be awful.

[BeHereNow]

27. AMEN.

B H N

[TahitiNut]

35. Word!

:banghead:

[Taverner]

51. If you can't see the difference between the most conservative Dem and the GOP, you need glasses

And we actually have some good candidates this time around, even Clinton. She's miles beyond anything by the GOP. OH, but she doesn't support your pet project (whatever that is) and scream "burn baby burn" at every campaign stop. Nope, she's as bad as Rove! She's evil! :eyes:

[MannyGoldstein]

58. She Doesn't Support Several Of My Pet Projects

The following are some of my pet projects -

1. Not starting wars for no good reason
2. Not endorsing torture as a way to fight terrorism
3. Not encouraging the outsourcing of jobs to China and other micro-wage nations

They're petty - but they're mine.

[ulysses]

59. petty bastard.

Think of what we could gain if we didn't insist on that no-torture thing!

[ProudDad]

55. The Dems -- "We suck less than the other guys"

but when we get into office, for all intents and purposes (except for Rowe -- oops, we allowed those justices onto SCOTUS too - never mind).

We'll do the same things they would do though 'cause we get our money (and marching orders) from the same masters...

[ozone_man]

26. Offer another choice then.

Not Republican lite. Gore lost in 2000 not because of Nader. The Al Gore of 2007 would have win by 10% probably if he could go back to 2000. He's learned to speak more emotionally since then. He should run in 2008. That would energize the base.

[Puregonzo1188]

28. Because it's been too long since we've had a hysterical anti-Nader thread at DU. (n/t)

[defendandprotect]

38. And, if we don't keep Nader-hate going, we might see that Gore won Florida ---

and he didn't push it because he didn't want to upset the Establishment . . . of which he is part!!!!

Let me know when you hear Gore call for nationazling our oil -- and take it back out of the hands of the few families controlling our natural resources -- !!!

Or, maybe electric cars --- ???

[Flabbergasted]

29. Nader would do much worse this time around

[Whisp]

30. minus 1 recommend.

[U4ikLefty]

33. Hey, if Hillary loses...we (Dems) gotta blame someone...correct?!? n/t

[L. Coyote]

36. NO. But the ultra right will fund some Green, no doubt.

The owner of Blackwater USA donated to the RNC, and, of course, to the Green Party.

[defendandprotect]

37. Gore and Kerry helped the GOP; Nader helped bring in Demcoratic voters ---

Getting votes counted is the first preliminary; neither Gore nor Kerry got that done ---

and . . . not that the campaigns themselves were impressive -- they sucked!!!

Kerry's campaign guy had lost every campaign he ran ---
Gore took ole Joe Liebermann as his VP --

This was the bottom of the pile running for office --
The public wanted Howard Dean -- and the DLC helped knock him out ---

Btw, we have problems with annointing VP's -- like Gore --
they should NOT have inside berth for a nomination ---

[roody]

39. The Dems are doing a fine job of helping the GOP.

They don't need Nader.

[laureloak]

40. He wont be needed unless Hillary is the nominee. n/t

[Beelzebud]

49. Leader Reid and Speaker Pelosi are doing far more to help them than he ever did.

[Larry Ogg]

52. I try to focus my blame on the real culprits,

Starting with the corporately owned main stream conservative media, who is giving the corporately owned conservative Hillary Clinton a free ride in the corporately owned Democratic Debates, ware as if there was fairness and equal opportunity to express his views to the unformed voters, Dennis Kucinich would most likely win the primaries by a landslide and the general by a landslide. I would almost even bet that Nader would vote for Kucinich.

The elections are stolen before the poles are even open though the corporate media for the corporate elite, so go ahead and blame those who aren’t being fooled, or led around like a bunch of sheep. A corporately owned conservative democrat is no better than a corporately owned conservative republican, their both taking orders from the same people and it’s not the working class.

[ProudDad]

53. Ah, the inevitable, irrelevant "I hate Nader" post

I was wondering where you folks had gone...

:eyes: :crazy: :puke:

[ulysses]

57. slow weekend?

"bottom feeders" indeed.