How do you address the Republicans' best argument?

[begin_within]

For me, that argument states in some words or other that "an individual is largely responsible for his/her own life, fortune and well-being." Some version of that is often repeated by Republicans. In theory I agree with the principle of individual responsiblity. But the Republicans take it way too far, but using it to justify all kinds of things they want, such as tax cuts for the wealthy and drastic cutbacks in social programs. They seem to use it as often as they play the patriotism card and the bible-thumping ploy. What do you say when they pull out the "individual responsiblity" argument?

[AnotherGreenWorld]

1. That's not a Republican argument.

They just have an odd conception of individual responsibility, and use it to justify anything.

[Danger Mouse]

2. My response would be...

if people are so responsible for their own well-being, why do you keep giving handouts and tax breaks and charity to big business and the rich? Can't they take care of themselves?

[originalpckelly]

3. Bingo, Republicans are not free market libertarian capitalists...

they're fascists, they believe in planned economies so long as big corporations and their masters win.

[Danger Mouse]

5. there are some that are TRUE conservatives...

but they are few and far between in this day in age.
it's so much more fun and evil to be a 'neo-con'...

[ThomWV]

4. Just what is an individually responsible person responsible to?

The pure pursuit of his or her own benefit or is there some responsibility to the society in which they are to florish? Or is that society to be paid for by the suckers while they are personally responsible to no one but themselves?

That is my answer.

[HughMoran]

6. I set them back on their feet by agreeing, in principal, with "personal responsibility"

Of course when I state how my idea of personal responsibility involves a shared sacrifice for the good of the nation by those who are lucky enough to have more than others, they immediately start to sour up. When I further suggest that some folks did not have the opportunities that they did and that the best thing for the country is to enhance the chances for those who start at a lower point, they really start to wish they had never brought up the argument. There are several other good angles to take on this "personal responsibility" canard that will leave your friendly neighborhood Republican wishing they would have never opened their ignorant selfish mouth. Try it, it works...

[rug]

7. I congratulate them on how well they wove their shirts,

how well they built their homes. Then I congratulate them for doing such a fine job of growing their food while spending four years educating themselves without the benefit of teachers. Finally I admire them for hacking a path over which they drove their hand built vehicles.

Then I kick them in the balls.

[pitohui]

8. you don't choose your gender, race, religion, class, or family background or where you were born

you don't choose the most important elements of your life -- who your parents were, what country you were born in, if you were born healthy or with a birth defect (i was born w. a birth defect by the way, perhaps giving this argument more force)

if you can't and don't choose the very most important influences in your life, then personal responsiblity has no real meaning

it's the booby prize

the person who celebrates personal responsiblity should be kissing the ass of god and good luck that he was born with a healthy brain, without a birth defect, into a wealthy class, of a privileged color and of a privileged shape to his genitals

the rest of us have very few choices

that's my argument

and since they have no answer to it, then they just start blessing me out

the fact is "free choice" and "willpower" is bullshit, and it's just another way for the rich white males with great fathers supporting their every move to shit on the rest of us

if THAT'S their best argument, crap, what's a poor argument?

do you understand that a great many people are born female or brown or kinky or handicapped or poor or lower middle class? some of us are born in multiple of these categories? all of the personal responsibility with none of the benefits!

[MedleyMisty]

9. Ask them to explain how someone born into poverty

is supposed to afford the best schools and have the connections to members of the wealthy elite to get a six figure job.

Make them prove that a kid born in a refugee camp in Africa can be a CEO by the time he or she is...oh, we'll give them until 60. Without the least bit of luck along the way - no American celebrity coming to adopt them or some anonymous benefactor paying their way through college or anything like that.

Show them the results of studies that prove that the best indicator of future financial success is what tax bracket your parents are in. Even better, ask them about their parents - did they grow up in a cinder block shack without a phone or running water and go to a run down school with old outdated textbooks and no money for any sort of special programs like my niece in West Virginia? If not, then they can't claim to have gotten where they are today by themselves.

[EFerrari]

10. If they were really for individual responsibility, the wealthy

would pay the same tax I do and, so would corporations. :shrug:

[OHdem10]

11. Personal Responsibility is also used as code---

When they first started using the term, it was understood
antipathy toward "welfare". Sometimes depending on the
audience it is still red meat.

[rucky]

12. No man is an island.

Do you want to live in a community or not?

That's great when times are good, but we need a safety net.

Society is judged by how it treats its most vulnerable members.

I would rather have my tax money go to help the poor than to help Cheney's stock options.

There are more references to helping the needy in the bible than any other message. (one for the fundies out there).

I give to charity, you give to charity, but what about all those people who could give and don't? That's why we have a tax system.

[wuushew]

13. Luckily statistics was invented to describe correlation

both the degree and magnitude of any measureable factor.

Depends what type of conservative you are arguing with though. Some think Earth is flat or that science is the tool of the devil.

[Cerridwen]

14. Tell 'em you want your money back.

You know, your tax dollars that paid for the roads, libraries, schools and some hospitals they use.

Ask them why they think they get to use other people's insurance premiums to pay for their health care.

Ask them what chemistry kit they use to insure their milk is okay to drink since they obviously don't want to use taxpayer funded regulatory entities.

Ask them where they bought the fire hose they're going to use to fight a fire if, heaven forbid, they should have one.

Ask who in their house knows first aid since they obviously wouldn't dare call an ambulance funded in part by taxpayer dollars and in full by "other people's money".

Ask them who paid to teach them and their children.

Do they have school loans? Demand your share of them back.

Then tell them you're going to build your septic system on top of their water system. See how they feel about government regulation and building codes right about then.

Self-sufficiency in society is a crock of horse puckey (mixing metaphors for fun and profit). No one in this country is 100% self sufficient. You got something from your parents, grand-parents and/or neighbors and community from the day you were born.

This is not their best argument; it is the most specious argument. And it stinks.

[Bitwit1234]

15. Oh then why the hell did bush yell DADDY when he was afraid

of being sent to Viet Nam...remember he is suppose to take care of himself, after all he was of age.

[NewHampster]

16. Tell them to go live without a Society

We choose to live in organized societies for the good of all. That argument is counter to human civilization.

[Wickerman]

17. Wendell Berry said it first and best

"Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of supply
and demand; it is the privilege of human beings to live under
the laws of justice and mercy."

[Canuckistanian]

18. Well, for one thing, that's not what some of them are saying

Some of them say that an individual is TOTALLY responsible for his/her own life, which is obviously not the case.

They assume that everyone could be rich, powerful and happy if only they'd follow that magical formula of "hard work". The "hard work" theory always intrigued me, because who works harder than someone with three jobs?

Of course, that would only work if we all lived in a Polyanna world of level playing fields, perfectly fair play and honorable intentions. But this is never a priority to them. In fact they go out of their way to deny that impediments exist.

And even then, there ain't that much money around to make everyone rich. There are not many spots to grab in this mythical game of musical chairs. Most don't make it.

And it's their attitude towards those who don't make it that disgusts me.

It demonstrates both their unmitigated greed and their unrealistic view of the real world.

[greenbriar]

19. I can't even talk to them anymore

I just want to slap them

[begin_within]

20. Thanks to all for your replies.

[maui9002]

21. Respond with the Democrats' best argument

That all of us should be willing to sacrifice some of our own self interest for the common good in which all of us share. There is a wonderful article by Michael Tomasky in the April 2006 issue of The American Prospect that argues that the primary principle on which the Democratic Party is based is just that: looking beyond the individual's self interest to assist in a larger project that benefits everyone. He makes a compelling case that Democrats need to stop focusing on rights and liberties and start focusing on this fundamental principle, which is, in my view, the best antidote to the current Republican principle of each to his own (e.g., social Darwinism).

[Swamp Rat]

22. "Why aren't you in Iraq?"

NO EXCUSES!

[mvccd1000]

29. I am. :) nt

[annabanana]

30. Hey hey! Welcome to DU!

We have bunches of vets and more than a couple active duty-types roaming around our halls. I'm sure you'll met them, by and by...

p.s. keep your head down and come home safe now..

[mvccd1000]

31. Thanks, annabanana.

[TahitiNut]

23. Then why must they profit from the labors of others??

And why are they taxed on those profits at less than half the tax rates that people are taxed on their own labor?

It was Truman who presided with the motto "The Busck Stops Here." With Duhbya, it's the "bucks" that stop in his pocket while the blame is shofted and the dying is done by others.

[provis99]

24. responsibility is only relevant if you have choices

You have to have a wide variety of life choices in order to take responsibility for the choices you make. Poor people, in particular, have few, if any, choices; hence issues like Personal Responsibility are a moot point. In order to have choices, you gotta have a little cash, for starters.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

25. Ask them why they oppose 100% inheritence tax.

The children of rich people tend to be rich; the children of poor people tend to be poor.

If everyone got an equal, or even a not massively unequal, start in life then there might be something to be said for the argument you describe.

However, at present, that's not the case. Whether you end up rich or poor has a great deal to do with factors beyond your control, not just your own choices and abilities.

[and-justice-for-all]

26. How about this....

"You need to wash that blood off your hands first."

[B Calm]

27. Republicans = Individual Responsibility and Corporate Freedom / cont..

Democrats = Corporate Responsibility and Individual Freedom

[B Calm]

28. It's that simple..