Diet and Fat: A Severe Case of Mistaken Consensus

[AngryAmish]

"In 1988, the surgeon general, C. Everett Koop, proclaimed ice cream to a be public-health menace right up there with cigarettes. Alluding to his office’s famous 1964 report on the perils of smoking, Dr. Koop announced that the American diet was a problem of “comparable” magnitude, chiefly because of the high-fat foods that were causing coronary heart disease and other deadly ailments.

He introduced his report with these words: “The depth of the science base underlying its findings is even more impressive than that for tobacco and health in 1964.”

That was a ludicrous statement, as Gary Taubes demonstrates in his new book meticulously debunking diet myths, “Good Calories, Bad Calories” (Knopf, 2007). The notion that fatty foods shorten your life began as a hypothesis based on dubious assumptions and data; when scientists tried to confirm it they failed repeatedly. The evidence against Häagen-Dazs was nothing like the evidence against Marlboros.

It may seem bizarre that a surgeon general could go so wrong. After all, wasn’t it his job to express the scientific consensus? But that was the problem. Dr. Koop was expressing the consensus. He, like the architects of the federal “food pyramid” telling Americans what to eat, went wrong by listening to everyone else. He was caught in what social scientists call a cascade."




Read the whole thing. It seems that diet scientists have been stuck in a group think for many, many years and the whole vilification of fat was wrong and maybe harmful. It is scary that a whole group of scientists can reach a consensus and be wrong.

[MADem]

1. Eat like Italians do, and live forever... NT

[Beausoir]

2. Just look at Sophia Loren.

She claims all of her beauty is due to pasta.

[CrispyQ]

13. I heard her say that she uses olive oil on her skin, too.

She is lovely!

[Kurovski]

72. Olive oil soap is the best.

It doesn't dry the skin the way coconut based soaps do.

[Arugula Latte]

7. The Italians and the French and Greeks know how to do it.

And what delicious food they eat -- lots of olive oil, garlic, wine, fresh fish, tomatoes, pasta, basil, lemon, legumes, etc. :9 Oh, and there's a little thing called "moderation" as well.

[AllieB]

75. They also eat more meat and saturated fat per capita than we do

And there are no hormones/additives/preservatives in their foods. That has a lot to do with their health and longevity.

[MADem]

79. And the Turks, too--who eat like Greeks!! But don't tell THEM that!!! nt

[Beaverhausen]

25. Eat smaller portions - like most countries do

We can eat anything as long as we aren't eating "super size" portions.

I lost 50 lbs since January, and believe me, I did have ice cream. I just had a very small servings.

[gauguin57]

36. Hey, congrats, Beaverhausen! 50 pounds, that's GREAT.

Kudos! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[DemBones DemBones]

45. I lost 50 pounds and have kept it off for two years just by

giving up meat and most dairy. My husband lost the same amount and has kept it off, too. Being vegetarian is not hard today. We tried it in the Sixties when it was much harder because there were fewer vegetarian products, eating out was a problem, and our families thought we were crazy, needed to eat meat.

We still eat cheddar cheese but otherwise eat soy substitutes for most dairy products. Tofutti is better than ice cream!!! And it has no fat or chloresterol!!! Tofutti "Better Than Cream Cheese" is really good, too, and Silk soy milks are great. All with no fat or chloresterol!

Our daughter is vegan and says we'd lose even more if we'd give up all dairy but giving up all cheese is hard. We eat eggs, too, which she doesn't, but they don't have the fat content of cheese. We also get protein from beans, legumes, and nuts.

[Dorian Gray]

49. I've also lost 45 lbs. in the past year.....

I'd like to lose more. Not a vegetarian, though. I eat meat, but only a certain amt. of proteins per day. I've increased my fruits/veggies consumption and healthy fats and healthy whole grains. No fast food any more. And smaller portions.

[DemBones DemBones]

95. That's great. When I did that, though, I actually gained weight!

One diet does not work for everyone. It's a shame many people don't seem to realize that; I mean the ones who say "It's simple, just eat less and exercise more."

If it were that simple, no one would be overweight. Being overweight today is a social stigma; who in their right mind would choose it?

My weight problems are due to chronic diseases and medications that all cause weight gain by slowing the metabolism. I never had a weight problem before I was hit by those, even though I always had a slower than normal metabolism.

[JuniperLea]

55. Vegetarianism isn't for everyone

I worked with a registered vegan dietitian for nearly five years trying to go vegetarian. My hair fell out, my skin became coarse, dry and irritated, I started having digestive problems, including a horrible bout with gastritis. All this even while carefully measuring and balancing grains and legumes for proper protein levels. They even tried giving me digestive support enzymes. I still wasn't processing things correctly. The dietitian consulted several colleagues and they decided I needed to eat some cheese, eggs, fish and chicken. Once I started digesting these proteins, my hair stopped falling out and my skin stopped falling off:) People need to be very careful with diet... moderation in ALL things is key.

[Mojorabbit]

56. I can't do it either

I am allergic to soy.

[JuniperLea]

57. I know several people allergic to soy

You have to be very careful! A former boss of mine was allergic to soy, and her daughter was allergic to milk... it wasn't easy for them. There are soy and milk derivatives in so many foods.

[DemBones DemBones]

91. People were vegetarians before soy products, they

relied on nuts, cheese and other dairy products, eggs, beans and legumes for protein. If you WANT to be a vegetarian, you can get by without soy. But I'm NOT proselytizing for vegetarianism, just providing info in case you're interested.

If you want to be a vegan, you'd only have beans and legumes and nuts for protein but some people do it.

Some people live on fruit and nuts, nothing else, are called fruitarians. Actor Dennis Weaver and his family were fruitarians. He died a few years back, but the surviving family members may still be fruitarians. He said once in an interview that people needed to be well-informed before attempting to live as fruitarians, that it was a healthy diet if done properly. That's true of any diet, of course.

[tsuki]

85. Give up HFCS. I have now lost 30 lbs, feel better, have more energy. nt

[DemBones DemBones]

92. That's my next goal. I've been working on avoiding them

but haven't gotten them out of my diet completely.

I just need to take the attitude toward HFCS that I did toward meat, just decide "I don't do that no more" (Ringo Starr.)

Good for you for succeeding in getting off HFCS. You've inspired me!

[tsuki]

124. I thought that it would be more difficult, but it isn't. There are a lot

of organics that use sugar. They are not like 20 years ago. The breads are tasty, and so are the sweets.

We will never see a comprehensive scientific study on HFCS. It will be like Feingold, all anecdotal evidence. But I am now a believer. Thank you, Thom Hartmann.

[JuniperLea]

96. Yep! That's my #1 no-no!

You have to read labels carefully because that junk is in everything! It's cheap for manufacturers.

[AllieB]

98. Even Whole Foods puts sugar in their products

Granted, it's 'cane juice' or 'fruit sweeteners', but if you're sugar sensitive, it can cause an insulin spike. I have to read the labels on everything there, to make sure they haven't snuck in succanat or raw sugar.

[JuniperLea]

99. Trader Joe's too

I read every label! My boyfriend shops with me (in fact, we are doing that tonight). He is such a dear! He KNOWS I'll spend a lot of extra time reading labels:) He's lost a bunch of weight since we've been living together, not depriving himself of anything really, just eating healthier.

I do keep a small bag of raw sugar in the house, but it lasts such a long time! I'm not sensitive to sugar, but with a family full of diabetics, I don't risk it!

[DemBones DemBones]

89. No, it isn't, but you were actually being a vegan, which is for fewer people than

vegetarianism. We eat eggs and cheese as vegetarians, also nuts, which you didn't mention eating. I'm NOT trying to convince you to be a vegetarian, just pointing out that you said you weren't eating eggs or cheese, so you were apparently eating a vegan diet.

Our daughter is very healthy as a vegan. She has been a vegan about 10 years and a vegetarian for about 15 years prior to that. Her husband, though, is a carnivore. He'd like to be vegetarian but feels terrible when he tries to go without meat, possibly because he doesn't eat enough nuts, cheese, soy products, beans, and legumes for protein. It's also possible he is just not physiologically able to do without meat. Everyone is different.

For future reference, hypothyroidism can cause dry skin, dry hair, hair loss, among other symptoms.

Another possibility is that you are allergic to some grains or could have celiac disease, which means you can't tolerate gluten in wheat, rye, or barley. Some can't tolerate oats, either, and celiac disease causes gastrointestinal symptoms.

Again, I'm NOT trying to convince you to be a vegetarian, just pointing out other possible causes for your problems. I'm suggesting you keep thyroidism and celiac disease in mind IF those symptoms recur in the future, because they can really cause problems, and you've already had enough problems! :hippie:

I've had erosive gastritis so I feel your pain! Dry hair and skin and hair loss are no fun either.

I have had hypothyroidism for several years, long before I was vegetarian, and it's never been well-controlled so far. I go to a new endocrinologist next week. My doctor refused to test me for antibodies to gluten a few years ago, just blew off the idea that I might have celiac disease. I had happened to read something about it online and realized I'd had many of the symptoms.

Since then, researchers have learned that 1 in 133 people have celiac disease!!! They used to think it was something like 1 in 1500, IIRC. It is common in Europe but they've just now realized that most Americans have European ancestors!!! Doh! Instead of giving my doctor another chance to blow me off about testing for celiac disease, I quit eating wheat gluten last spring and have had almost no GI problems so I think I either have celiac disease, which can lead to cancer of the small intestine, or a strong allergy to wheat gluten. I think the few problems I have had were allergies to other foods.

The crummy part is that to have my blood tested for the antibodies, I'll have to eat wheat gluten again for some period of time and my stomach will suffer. I'm hoping it won't be for very long because I have had enough GI problems in my life. But I need to be diagnosed because if you have the antibodies, you need to have your small intestine biopsied to see if it's damaged. Celiac disease is serious.

[JuniperLea]

97. Lacto-Ovo Vegetarianism

Was one way I went, but needed to add fish and foul... I think I didn't proof my post:)

Vegan is no animal products at all, eaten OR worn.

We even tried adding more oils and more nuts, but my hair kept falling out by the handful. All of my blood tests were normal. We suspected hypothyroidism because I had it when I was a kid... it mysteriously disappeared when I became pregnant for the first time. How weird is that?!? I also went to an allergist and was tested for environmental and food allergies. Skin conditions can be related to a lot of allergies. I have some basic dust mite, tree, mold and weed allergies, but nothing they felt would cause such a severe reaction. I did stop having headaches after cutting HFCS out!

One major change after cutting out beef was pre-menstrual issues! Oh my gosh! The nutritionist said all the growth hormones in beef were most likely the cause.

I'm fine now, as long as I don't eat beef. Oh, I have a hamburger once every blue moon... but apparently that's not enough to set me off again.

I'm good now... thank Goddess!!

[knitter4democracy]

103. Whoo! You rock!

I gained that in a year (surgery started it *sigh*), so I'm starting, now that I'm finally feeling a bit better, to cut my portions and such.

[CTyankee]

119. I dropped 30 lbs in the hospital when I was on TPM intravenous feedings (and the aftermath).

It was supposed to supply me with 3,000 calories a day! Ha!

To be fair, when I got home, I was in such pain from 3 abdominal surgeries I couldn't eat but finally I put back 5 lbs. I hope it will stabilzie there. My hunger level has never recovered since those surgeries and I don't know if it ever will. Lesson: if you don't eat, you will lose weight. Frankly, I couldn't work at the time I was losing a lot of the weight, so my case may not be dispositive. But I'm just sayin'...

[knitter4democracy]

127. Surgery sucks.

I had three procedures in a year, and it sucks. I'm just sayin' . . . :hug:

[CTyankee]

133. Thanks!

What a great tagline!

[knitter4democracy]

134. I wish the website were still up.

The gal that started the group, Knitters Against Bush, set up a site and later added message boards. Well, those got freeped, and she got sick of it and shut it all down. Still, I keep the tagline. :)

I'll bet you have impressive scars. We should compare sometime. ;)

[CTyankee]

137. Least of my worries. I just want to get better and feel better.

I am still on Vicoden, my best "friend." This has been a long, tough road and there are a few more stops on the way...

[knitter4democracy]

142. I wish I could take that. Pain makes healing take much longer.

I can't do narcotics (inherited a thing from my dad that makes narcotics not block my pain pathways--thanks, Dad). I'm so glad you can take the Vicodin and get the pain relief you need. That's really very important. If all you can focus on is pain, it's hard to focus on healing.

Few more stops? Oh no! I thought you'd be done with three, since that's a lot. I hope they're scopes and not traditional slice-and-dice surgeries.

[CTyankee]

143. Actually, the reversal was the 4th surgery, but it was less invasive

(they say) than the others. I am doing very well today, for instance.

Sorry to hear about the painkiller issue with you. I cannot imagine your suffering. Did you ever try acupuncture? It is supposed to relieve pain.

[knitter4democracy]

145. *sigh* Stupid needle phobia.

The fear of all those needles kept me from trying it. Let's just say that waking up from the kidney surgery (after they took out a pound of flesh and three inches of bone one year ago tomorrow) was pain like I'd never known (even after two natural births and ten years of appendicitis). I still get nightmares sometimes of that.

I'm glad for a good day. I overdid it a bit with cleaning and am just wiped out today. I hope tomorrow's an even better day for you. :hug:

[ClassWarrior]

3. According to the "Protein Power" people, fat doesn't get converted to fat in the body...

...contrary to popular belief. Sugar and grains (which are sugar) get converted to fat. I don't know much beyond that, but it makes a lot of sense to me.

NGU.

[tandot]

18. Refined sugars and especially high fructose corn syrup are especially bad:

http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20050729/soft-drink-sweetener-may-add-extra-fat

Soft Drink Sweetener May Add Extra Fat
Fructose May Alter Metabolism to Add Body Fat


July 29, 2005 -- A sweetener commonly used in soft drinks and other foods may lead to more body fat than drinks sweetened with plain sugar.

A new study suggests that fructose may alter the body's metabolism in a way that prompts it to store body fat.

Researchers say the findings may help explain the recently established link between rising soft drink popularity and obesity rates in the U.S. and other parts of the world.

"Our study shows how fat mass increases as a direct consequence of soft drink consumption," says researcher Matthias Tschöp, MD, associate professor of psychiatry at the University of Cincinnati, in a news release.

...more at link

[distantearlywarning]

39. A story about HFCS

I have a metabolic condition that makes it very easy for me to gain weight, and very hard to lose it once it's on. I have been on many diets over the years with little success, even in the beginning when most dieters have success.

This past summer, I spent 2 weeks in Europe (France & Germany). Given my difficulty with weight loss in the past, I was quite surprised, shocked actually, to find that my pants were loose at the end of those two weeks. This was despite eating pretty much whatever I wanted, which included cheese, creme brulee, croissants & coffee with cream etc.

I also felt much better mentally and physically than I had in the States. Now, this could have been due to the fact that I was on vacation, but the change just seemed like it was more than that. Also, I started to feel bad again within two days of returning to America, even though I was still technically "on vacation". It was a very clear and abrupt transition mentally and physically once I started eating here again.

I racked my brain trying to figure out what could have been different in Europe vs. America. I walk just as much here as I did there on a daily basis, and my diet here was "better". Or so I thought...

I finally decided that the one thing that they don't have in a lot of European foods is HFCS. Although I don't drink sugared soda, I thought maybe other foods that I was eating might contain HFCS. Imagine my surprise when I found that almost everything in our kitchen cabinets contained it, including bread, low-fat crackers, and vegetable soup. Also, the "diet" bars that I have been eating for 4 years include HFCS as their 1st ingredient!!! All I was told to look at was calorie, carb, & protein information, so I really didn't think much about looking closely at ingredients. All of you fat haters out there can call me stupid, but I suspect that about 99% of Americans don't know exactly what's in the food they eat either.

Anyway, after this shocking discovery, I purged every HFCS item from my kitchen that day. I am now reading the ingredients on absolutely everything we buy, and anything containing HFCS or any other crazy thing that doesn't appear to be actual food is banned from my house.

The result: Despite not exercising or consciously dieting since I got back, my weight has already dropped 2 lbs in 2 months (not a lot, but pretty damn good for eating pretty much whatever I felt like). This week I'm actually starting to work on nutrition and exercise again, and I'm eager to see what will happen this time without HFCS in my life.

I also continue to feel good mentally and physically. It's hard to describe, but I always felt like I was walking around in a weird fog before. I guess I was used to it, because it wasn't until I was in Europe 3 days that it started to lift and it was like I was a totally different person or something. And I had all these weird gastrointestinal problems and other physical issues for years that have completely disappeared now.

I am firmly convinced that this shit is poison. And corporate America dumps it into everything.

If you are having trouble losing weight, or you feel bad all the time, fatigued and ill, take a look at all the HFCS you are consuming and get rid of it!

[tandot]

46. I also threw away anything with HFCS in it and are checking everything

I buy.

what concerns me is that it is in food considered "healthy" like yogurt, granola bars, cereals like Raisin Bran, or juices. Lots of parents don't take the time to read the food label and ingredient list and don't even know what they are feeding their kids.

[distantearlywarning]

61. God, this is the truth.

Just yesterday I was at the store and saw a small carton of cottage cheese with pineapple. I like cottage cheese with fruit, and this was packaged in a way that seemed convenient. Upon checking the label, I noticed that the third ingredient was HFCS. WTF? Pineapple is plenty sweet on its own. The worst part is that the way this thing was packaged made it look completely healthy and like it didn't contain anything but cottage cheese and fruit. It's disgusting how they sneak this crap into absolutely everything!

[deminks]

69. The amazing thing to me was I found it in certain brands of pickles and canned tomatoes.

in addition to some of the sweet things one would expect, and every brand of bread I have looked at.

[MADem]

81. I wouldn't call you stupid. I've met and know a load of 'smart' folk who didn't realize

that shit was in their food, either. It's CRACK, too. Bad for us, bad for the young adults and teens, and so bad for the children.

I'm one of those annoying old label-readers in the aisle of the grocer. And I tell people what I'm doing, too, and what I'm looking for--those trans-fats and that HFCS!

[tsuki]

86. From your post to everyone's ear. I have lost 30 lbs, 2 lbs a week.

Now, since I have increased my activity level, I am not losing weigh, but rather inches which is good. Hopefully, I shall start losing weigh again.

[SmokingJacket]

128. It's because the government subsidizes corn.

Makes it SUPER cheap and profitable to put into everything.

[yardwork]

60. I have lost weight by giving up refined sugars, especially high fructose corn syrup.

HFCS seems to be some kind of poison. When I give in to temptation and buy store-bought pastries or other junk food with HFCS and refined carbs, I gain weight. When I avoid them, I lose excess weight and feel much better.

I also stay away from red meat, mostly because I don't trust the crap they're force-feeding animals now and I object to the way that animals are treated by the meat industry. It's one thing to eat meat. It's quite another torture animals throughout their entire lives and force-feed them hormones and antibiotics. It's both unethical and unhealthy for everyone. Plus, the beef industry uses an enormous amount of water. I know I should give up dairy as well but I'm not there yet.

[Katherine Brengle]

84. It can, it just

doesn't necessarily. I believe the fat myth would tell us that fat on your fork automatically equals fat on your thighs, rather than energy for your body just like every other kind of calorie.

[Warpy]

4. Well, the thinking looks really obvious to me

Acknowledging the devastating effects of cigarettes makes an industry look bad.

Demonizing one of many essential nutrients makes people look bad.

The truth is that fat is what helps us feel full. We need it.

[AspenRose]

5. Time to go conduct my own personal test

with a nice bowl of Haagen-Dazs Cinnamon Dulce de Leche. :9

[Mandate My Ass]

6. Their 'Sticky Toffee Pudding' flavor is so good

I may have to blow the curve on the results.

My next fave is Ben & Jerry's Creme Brulee; believe it or not, superior to Haagen-Dazs' version.

[hedgehog]

122. You have to watch what kind of ice cream you eat.

Chocolate and vanilla may be ok, but as soon as you get into the more exotic flavors, you're usually dealing with trans-fats. Most ice creams are sweetened with high fructose corn syrup these days.

[pink-o]

8. It's actually very simple...

...exert more calories than you eat. Make sure most of your food is fresh, not processed. Eat at home where you can prepare your own fresh food more often than you eat out.

And you'll be fine!

[DemBones DemBones]

33. No, it's not. That only applies if

your metabolism is normal.

If you have no diseases that interfere with your metabolism and you take no medications that cause weight gain, your metabolism will still slow down as you age.

Very few people remain thin all their lives without a constant struggle to keep from gaining weight. Many resort to liposuction and other cosmetic surgeries to remove fat and/or to stomach stapling, gastric bypass surgery, etc.

Hypothyroidism is very common and very much underdiagnosed. It causes weight gain in most people who develop it and it is very common among older people, women in particular.

Many people must take medications that cause weight gain. If it's a choice between living and being thin, most people choose living.

Many people are also physically unable to exercise much as they age (or even when young if disabled.)

A lot of research has shown that many people cannot lose weight beyond a certain level even when they are not taking medications that cause weight gain and have no medical conditions that cause weight gain.

Our bodies evolved to store fat so that in times when food is scarce, we could remain alive as our bodies convert fat to glucose, which is broken down to produce energy, when we are starving.

There is also evidence that our bodies think it's summer all the time, which is naturally when our ancestors would have had the most to eat and stored fat to get them through the lean times of winter.
Our ancestors went to sleep when the sun went down and got up when the sun rose. Days are longer in summer. With artificial light, we are exposed to light at higher than summer levels year-round, thus our bodied store fat year-round and we gain weight.

Weight control is a LOT more complicated than you think.

[depakid]

62. I'm sorry but that apllies ALWAYS. There are NO exceptions.

You cannot gain weight- and you WILL lose weight if you take in less calories than you burn.

Metabolism only affects the rate of burn and the nature of storing excess calories.

What form of calories you take in also affects the rate of burn and storage of excess calories.

But the fundamental laws of thermodynamics still apply.

[SmokingJacket]

129. Of course, but.

The "fundamental laws of thermodynamics" are not wrong, they're just irrelevant.

You can precipitously drop the number of calories you take in and still not lose weight because your body also precipitously drops its rate of use.

And there are endless complicating factors -- kind and quality of calories, rate of absorption in the gut, etc. And eating too few calories can induce a starvation state, which throws a wrench into your metabolism. In fact, if you want to lose weight, it's better to NOT eat too few calories.

So endlessly repeating "eat less, lose weight" is just pointless.

[BadgerLaw2010]

65. Your body does not spontaniously generate mass.

Violation of thermodynamics.

[knitter4democracy]

105. It's about metabolism, not thermodynamics.

If your body thinks it's starving, it will act completely differently than if it thinks all is well.

Talk to some post-op patients. Those of us with highly vascular tumors are having trouble losing weight, even though we don't eat much and do as much exercising as our bodies let us, more than we did before, often.

[BadgerLaw2010]

125. Your metabolism is bound by thermodynamics. Don't take in excess energy.

Unusual medical conditions can alter metabolic requirements, but metabolic requirements are still how much energy you are burning in a day. Your body cannot grow more mass unless you supply raw material in excess of what it is consuming. If you supply less, weight will gradually decrease.

Most people who complain about weight don't have medical conditions that create massively different metabolisms either.

[knitter4democracy]

126. How do you know?

Most people just think I'm fat. They don't see my 10" long incision, since it's under my clothes. Hard to know if someone's got a medical issue or not.

I've cut my portions in half, I eat very little, and I still gain weight. I have to take vitamins and exercise (as much as the pain will allow), and even my doctor wonders why I'm still gaining weight. I did a food journal, and I was scruplous in reporting every single thing that went into my mouth, and even she was shocked at how little I eat. So, you're telling me to eat even less. I'm hungry all the time as it is, which I'm trying to ignore, but apparently all I need to do to solve my problem is just not eat at all. Thanks.

[Lurking Dem]

144. Oddly enough

(and suffering from a couple of metabolic related disease states) I can gain or maintain weight on 300-500 calories a day.

We kept a food diary and for part of that I was hospitalized doing clear liquids and bites of baby food fruit. (And some of that was being lost through vomiting.)

They argued we didn't really understand metabolism and I needed to do more exercise and I argued that even Karen Ann Quinlin was skinny and she was hardly active.

Apparently since I take insulin, a fat growth hormone, all I need is air. They didn't believe it until they saw it for themselves.

Dr. Lois Javonovich showed a chart in one of her lectures many years ago, showing energy expenditure and calorie intake in men and women by age to maintain weight. After 35, a woman's weight could only be maintained by expending considerably more energy than she was taking in.

Her talk was fascinating and she has written on the subject before.

[AllieB]

110. Here's an interesting article on thermodynamics and weight loss

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=963#comments

[knitter4democracy]

104. Thank you, DemBones.

I was about to post this.

My metabolism's screwed up. Last year, I had a huge kidney tumor removed (took about a pound of flesh and three inches of rib, total), and I have rocketed up in weight, despite eating at home more, eating fresh foods, and upping my exercise as I feel up to it. The tumor was really vascular, which means that it had tons of blood vessels and probably messed up my metabolism for years, forcing my body into starvation mode. Now that it's gone, I have to convice my body that it's not starving. Fun.

No, weight is not simple. It's often a complicated problem for many of us.

[spinbaby]

9. My mother goes for the low fat diet

She has health problems that I'm convinced are due more to her extremely low-fat diet than being in her 80s--underweight, dry skin, gums breaking down. Literally the only fat she gets in her diet are two capsules of fish oil a day. Her doctor is just fine with that.

[SmokingJacket]

130. That's terrible. It probably makes her feel bad, too.

My own grandmother was obsessive about heart disease -- cut out fats and took estrogen therapy because her doctor told her it would prevent heart disease. She ended up dying of breast cancer at 71.

[NorthernSpy]

10. just eat normal food and take a walk...

Some of us will be skinny, some of us will be fat, most of us will be somewhere in between, and none of us will live forever. It would be a shame to waste your life fretting about your health.

If anyone wants to call that fatalism, fine by me. I think that as far as disease prevention is concerned, we passed the point of diminishing returns some time ago. Our "preventative" measures are increasingly based on so little science, a lot of them are probably worse than doing nothing at all.

[DemGa]

11. A good amount of olive oil for me

Gotta have it!!

[tsuki]

87. Watch out. I read where some Italian companies are cutting olive oil

with other vegetable oils.

[knitter4democracy]

106. Go Greek!

Kalamata olive oil tastes the best! Great, great stuff.

[CrispyQ]

12. Harr! Like in the movie "Sleeper" with Woody Allen:

Dr. Melik: This morning for breakfast he requested something called "wheat germ, organic honey and tiger's milk."
Dr. Aragon: Oh, yes. Those are the charmed substances that some years ago were thought to contain life-preserving properties.
Dr. Melik: You mean there was no deep fat? No steak or cream pies or... hot fudge?
Dr. Aragon: Those were thought to be unhealthy... precisely the opposite of what we now know to be true.
Dr. Melik: Incredible.

[bear425]

14. This report brought to you by Ben and Jerry.

Ice cream is yummy. :9

edit: correct smiley

[jpgray]

15. Be active, and don't eat too much

How else would the land of pasta and pizza have a 6.5% obesity rate?

[AngryAmish]

16. This seems to make sense at a gut level

I am a bit of a food nut (Mrs AA and I both like to cook). I can't and won't follow a diet that prevents me from eating what I want.

Eat a little bit of everything and walk a bit.

However, that said, there is no scientific evidence that this is helpful. I just like eating and walking so I will continue to do so until there is proof otherwise.

[Locrian]

19. actually

Actually, (and I know you wont like/believe this) he says exercise and intake do not determine weight.

I know, I know - but think about how many people starve themselves and cant loose weight. There are other factors in play here, a lot is hormonal, and how carbs/sugar can create problems in metabolism (diabetes anyone?).

Your body is not a open loop mechanical engine. Its not just calories in ---> energy out + fat(if not used for energy). It has lots of closed loop feedbacks that affect HOW the conversion takes place.

I personally think exercise helps BALANCE your hormones and creates a more "tuned" system to handle converting food, makes you feel better, etc - but I see the point he is trying to make.

[NorthernSpy]

24. you're right about that...

Actually, (and I know you wont like/believe this) he says exercise and intake do not determine weight.

I know, I know - but think about how many people starve themselves and cant loose weight. There are other factors in play here, a lot is hormonal, and how carbs/sugar can create problems in metabolism (diabetes anyone?).

Your body is not a open loop mechanical engine. Its not just calories in ---> energy out + fat(if not used for energy). It has lots of closed loop feedbacks that affect HOW the conversion takes place.

Exactly.

I take a medication that is notorious for driving your weight down, regardless of how much you eat or how inactive you are. It's a weird side effect, but it gives you an appreciation for how little your supposedly all-important lifestyle "choices" determine your weight.

If something shuts downs the cue that your hypothalamus sends out that tells your body to store fat, then you can mainline hollandaise sauce and it won't stick to you. On the other hand, if that "store fat" cue is still going strong, your body WILL maintain its weight over the long run, even if you try to starve it or sweat it down to size.

[bluethruandthru]

30. What's that medication....

and where can I get some?! :hi:

[NorthernSpy]

38. topiramate

It's an antiseizure drug, but I think that the majority of prescriptions are now written for migraine prevention. It reduces the frequency of attacks, but does not treat those do occur (you need a painkiller for that).

I have migraine with aura, and I can't use the tryptans or ergot derivatives.

[Dorian Gray]

50. Hah! That's what I was wondering!

:)

[NorthernSpy]

20. walking seems to prevent deep vein thrombosis, but beyond that...

... the benefits of exercise have probably been as overstated as benefits of eating "this", or avoiding "that". There's just a whole lot of wishful thinking tied up in this issue. People want to feel as though they have more control over their health than they actually do.

[Locrian]

22. yes

There certainly is a lot of disinformation, and active marketing etc out there to make it all extremely confusing. Which causes stress, which leads to a whole bunch of problems. We really do need to relax more and try to live life instead of acting like we are terrified all the time. Hard to do in bush-cheney world!

[KittyWampus]

59. that is so screwed up "People want to feel as though they have more control over their health than t

"People want to feel as though they have more control over their health than they actually do"

Actually, we pretty much have total control over our health.

99% is in the Mind.

But most people do cling to the victim mentality.

[shireen]

90. not for everyone

Some people, like me, have blood coagulation disorders. Walking and drinking lots of water may lessen the risk slightly, but we have to take blood thinners for life to keep DVTs or PEs from recurring.

Some of my support group buddies clot all the time, even when they're taking blood thinners. It's really bizarre.

If you get a DVT or PE, please please please ... ask your doctor to screen you for blood coagulation disorders!

[DemBones DemBones]

40. Italians are getting fatter, you know. They drive cars or ride scooters

more now, walk less, they have MacDonald's and supermarkets. They are not as likely to live in a neighborhood and walk to local shops. Our young friends in Italy go to the gym! Elevators are being installed in more of the centuries-old buildings, so people won't have to climb stairs all the time.

As early as 1994, I saw a good many obese Italians. Not as many as you see in the US yet, and few who are very obese, but many older people are overwieght in Italy. Age slows metabolism.

The younger generations are also getting more food so they are not scrawny like post-war kids. Without considerable effort, they will not stay thin as many of the older people who didn't get enough food in their youth did. They eat better food than we do IF they stay away from MacDonald's and all the new convenience foods. Unfortunately, they want the new foods.

I think the fact that the US did not have food shortages after World War II contributed to obesity as much as fast food, since we older baby boomers didn't eat fast food until we were 15-16 or older. Kids growing up in the Fifties and Sixties in the US were better-nourished as kids than those growing up in Europe or the UK, where conditions were grim for years after the war. We weren't necessarily over-fed, or fat but the Sears catalogs always had sections of clothes for chubby kids so there were some kids who needed them. The girls' section was called "Chubbettes." I thought that was an awful name, was glad I was skinny!

I have never known some of our friends to go out for the passiegiato, the evening walk, though, which is a lovely custom in Italy. Some of the locals do -- I figure all those who are walking dogs live there -- but if you're out walking in Florence, it's impossible to know how many of the Italians out walking are Florentines and how many are visiting Florence. The same applies everywhere. We always went to Italy in the off season when most tourists were Europeans, many of them Italians visiting other towns.

Besides that, the younger ones live in a suburb. Even if their "suburb" consists of living in an apartment in an old Medici villa, as one couple we know do, they don't go out for a stroll in the evening. Italians have TV and they love it! They're becoming couch potatoes. TV and fast food have not been good for anyone. When you think about it, we're not getting any exercise, except mental, when we're online, either. And Italians love computers, cell phones, other technology as much as we do.

[SaveAmerica]

44. Isn't that sad? Read up about the "Okinawa Diet" and you'll see some of the

longest living people in the world were old school Okinawans. They ate broth based soups before each meal, more fish than red meats, were active physically and in their communities and lived long happy lives. Today's generation of Okinawans are less active, eat more junk, are basically living more like westerners and their life expectancy is lower. The most interesting thing about the older gens of Okin. was that they ate such healthy foods that when they reached those ages they didn't have the bad health issues that western elderly have (strokes, diabetes, high blood pressure). They were happier elderly that enjoyed growing old where so many in the west who are living longer thanks to modern medicine aren't enjoying it because of all the health problems.

Here's an article about it: http://www.wellnessletter.com/html/wl/2001/wlFeatured0901.html

[DemBones DemBones]

82. Thanks for the info. Basically, everything started

going to hell with the Industrial Revolution, when people left their farms, started working in factories, had less time to garden. (No doubt in Okinawa former fishermen and farmers are putting together some sort of widgets in factories.)

Then we invented cars and tv and computers and a lot of sedentary jobs. We quit living in towns and cities where we walked to the stores, etc., and moved to suburbs that often lack sidewalks and it's too far to walk to stores.

When the oil runs out, we'll have to go back to a healthier lifestyle. Too bad we aren't smart enough as nations to makes big changes before the oil runs out.

[CTyankee]

140. Have you noticed how little the Romans are?

I found it hard to find clothing to fit me in Rome's stores. An American friend of mine, who is skinny (but tall), was at theupper end of the size charts there. I didn't notice that size difference being so marked in Florence and some of the little Tuscan towns, altho in Lucca I wondered why the Lucchese could remain so thin with their rich diets! And the streets are too narrow for cars so they aren't allowed insided the wall surrounding Lucca -- foot power or bicycles only!

You still do see thin Sicilians, tho. Those in the smaller, more remote, towns where there are not lots of elevators and the streets are just too small for autos of any size, even the tiny ones the Italians so love. Go up in the Madona Mountains and you'll see what I mean!

[Locrian]

17. really good book

Aside from the well documented history on research (and the errors) as well as insights into the relationship between fats / carbs / insulin etc. He doesnt go enough into how hormone balance plays a part - which accounts for differences between people and how they convert / use energy.

One thing for sure - this will piss off a lot of people who think low fat, high carbs, sugar ok, is the way to go. BTW - dont forget there is usually a lot of sugar and carbs mixed in with fat (like your ice cream, pastas, etc) Its not like he is saying eat junk or a bunch of high sugar/carb deserts (just because there is fat in ther) is ok.

And the pharmaceutical industry since he shows how cholesterol has NO bearing on heart disease. (Read the book before you make snap judgments here - it is very well researched and will surprise you).

I found it really interesting on how he shows "conventional" wisdom is borne. Its not so much of a conspiracy (at least in the beginning) as it is a failure to critically evaluate results when they CONFLICT with what you want or expect them to be. Then, once the business and $$ come it the belief acquires even more mass and resistance to change.

If the second person isn’t sure of the answer, he’s liable to go along with the first person’s guess. By then, even if the third person suspects another answer is right, she’s more liable to go along just because she assumes the first two together know more than she does. Thus begins an “informational cascade” as one person after another assumes that the rest can’t all be wrong.

Because of this effect, groups are surprisingly prone to reach mistaken conclusions even when most of the people started out knowing better, according to the economists Sushil Bikhchandani, David Hirshleifer and Ivo Welch. If, say, 60 percent of a group’s members have been given information pointing them to the right answer (while the rest have information pointing to the wrong answer), there is still about a one-in-three chance that the group will cascade to a mistaken consensus.

Cascades are especially common in medicine as doctors take their cues from others, leading them to overdiagnose some faddish ailments (called bandwagon diseases) and overprescribe certain treatments (like the tonsillectomies once popular for children). Unable to keep up with the volume of research, doctors look for guidance from an expert — or at least someone who sounds confident.

[AllieB]

76. I'm almost done Taubes book. It is NOT a diet book

but a history of the studies that supposedly proved the cholesterol hypothesis. Taubes looked further into this and touches upon the politics at play behind this. This book will make you question how we've been brainwashed. I naturally question authority, so this wasn't too much of a stretch for me to believe.

[IronLionZion]

21. Eat real food, not artificial junk loaded with preservatives and corn syrup

but the worst part of it all is that the USA just plain doesn't have enough produce to feed every American if we all followed the food pyramid. Our home grown and imported produce just isn't enough to meet that demand. That's why produce costs more than junk food. That's why poor Americans are fatter than wealthy Americans.

[Locrian]

23. overpopulation

You're absolutely correct. It costs a lot of money to "eat right". It's worse since everyone moved away from local farms and the ability to feed themselves with high quality food.

[distantearlywarning]

42. Went to the grocery store last weekend.

We had planned an entire week worth of interesting tasting meals that included lean good-quality meats, various types of fruits and vegetables, and legumes. We didn't buy anything junky. If you looked in our cart, you would think we were the best eaters you'd ever seen. It was perfect, lovely, fresh food with no HFCS, preservatives, refined grains or sugars, etc. That cart contained everything everyone says you need to eat to be on a good diet.

Our bill was $170!!! My husband almost fainted at the cash register. There's no way anybody on food stamps could eat that way. They could probably do rice and beans instead of potato chips and soda, but they couldn't cook salmon with mustard-dill sauce and fresh asparagus (just one example of a meal we had this week).

If we had gone and bought hamburger, potato chips, soda, and Tuna Helper, the bill would have been a quarter of that. We're lucky we both work and live in a low cost of living area so we can eat this way. Our relative wealth is what enables us to do it. It's just a fact. And this is a big reason why the poor are fat and the rich are skinny. It's also the reason obesity is stigmatized so heavily in this culture. Rich people are thin. Everyone else is stigmatized.

Also, we have to put some effort into eating this way. We have to plan out what meals we are going to eat so that our produce doesn't go bad, we have to make a grocery list, we have to cook them, and we have to wash all of the dishes (and it takes more pots & pans to make a decent meal with veggies than to throw together a pot of Kraft mac n' cheese). I also have to plan out my lunches and snacks every day in advance and put them together. I would say we both spend several hours each day involved in activities surrounding food. It's an awfully good thing that we have the kinds of jobs and family situation that allow us to do that. If both of us had to work two jobs to make ends meet, who would shop, plan healthy meals, cook, and wash dishes? Our relative education is what allows us to do it. Lower SES people may just not have the time or energy to spend on the frivolous activity of cooking balanced dinners.

And lets not forget that we have a grocery store within driving distance, and a working vehicle to get us there. What would we do if neither of those things were true? Eat at McDonalds? The convenience store? Some people are in that situation...

Eating "real" food is costly in a number of ways.

[Dorian Gray]

52. All that is true...

but you don't need to buy Salmon and Asparagus to eat healthy. You can buy chicken and spinach, which is much cheaper. There are cheaper fish, too. Mackerel is really good for you. Sardines, too. Tomato sauce is really healthy. With some whole wheat pasta. A Bag of Frozen Shrimp at five per person for four people can last for two meals. A whole roasted chicken. And all the leafy greens are super healthy: Kale, Chard, Collared Greens, Bok Choi, etc. They're not too pricey in my supermarket.

[IronLionZion]

54. Supply is fixed, but demand will keep increasing

The price of good food is only going to increase and the price of bad food will stay about the same or decrease.

The deck is stacked against poor people. Those folks will have to eat whatever food they can afford just to feel full and make do with artificially fortified milk and cereals and supplements to get their necessary nutrients.

[progressoid]

26. Great, another story to screw up Americans' eating habits.

All of the debate over too much fat vs. too much sugar vs. too much _____ vs. too much ____ etc. avoids the bigger issue. We just eat too much and exercise too little.

Koop should have just made a simple statement. "Shut your pie-hole and get off your ass".

[MattSh]

28. Well, guess who first came up with that....

The processed food industry. They certainly didn't want anyone pointing the finger at THEM for making America fat. So the commissioned a multi-million dollar ad campaign to convince everyone that THEY (the consumers) were the problem. And YOU fell for it.

[progressoid]

31. ok

[MattSh]

27. Hmm, sounds like evolution at work...

First, it wasn’t clear that traditional diets were especially lean. Nineteenth-century Americans consumed huge amounts of meat; the percentage of fat in the diet of ancient hunter-gatherers, according to the best estimate today, was as high or higher than the ratio in the modern Western diet.

Who would have thunk?? Eat a diet closer to what people ate 100 or 1000 years ago. What's the difference? Minimal processed food. Cook with lard instead of shortening (invented 100 years ago). Eat minimal sugars, especially processed sugar (150 yrs ago, the average person ate 10 lbs of sugar a year; now it's around 160 lbs a year). If it looks like something that grows on a tree, is picked from a plant, or meat or fish, eat it. If it looks like it belongs in a box, toss it.

Here's an earlier NY Times article (2002) from Mr Taubes about the same thing.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E2D61F3EF934A35754C0A9649C8B63

[Withywindle]

35. That really does seem like common sense to me.

It's true that sometimes we want to think we have more control over our health than we do, and some of the "simple solutions" are definitely wishful thinking that don't apply to everybody.

But it's also true that this obesity epidemic is a RECENT phenomenon. Everybody over 35 or so (I'm 38) can remember when the "fat kid" in class was just that; there were two or three of them in an average classroom, not the majority. There are WAY more overweight people around now than there were just 20 years ago. And the US has an obesity percentage that you just don't see in other countries--I've been to countries in Europe, South America, and Southeast Asia, and it's really true. Nowhere near the proportions, just from observing people on the street. Human physiology doesn't change that fast! We're not that physically different from people who lived 100 years ago.

What's the difference? It seems obvious to me it has at least *something* to do with an increase in processed food and sedentary lifestyles, doesn't it?

[KurtNYC]

29. Article is about group think -- not about nutrition

The book may have a different focus but this article is about how non-scientists and non-nutritionists have influenced the debate and national guidelines about the links between health and diet.

Diet is one of the most heavily studied parts of health. High intake of saturated fat DOES correlate with heart disease. High intake of alcohol DOES correlate with heart attack and cancer. Intake of nitrites (hot dogs, lunch meat, bacon) DOES correlate with a 67% increase of risk for pancreatic cancer.

Saying things need "more study" is the standard MO of those who do not like the facts.

[AngryAmish]

32. Correllate not cause

Maybe people who drink have other factors in their lives that cause heart attacks. Teasing our causation is very difficult and making huge changes based on slippery causation may not be the best thing.

[KurtNYC]

34. But good correlative research looks at the "other factors"

And stands up to peer review.

Correlation is the general picture -- cause and effect is the detail. And it is that detail which is important. I agree with you on correlation but disagree on causation.

Causation is often perfectly clear:
Smoking cigarettes can cause lung cancer.
Being overweight can cause the need for knee replacement.
Heavy drinking can cause brain damage.

The mechanisms for these examples are easily understood. Nothing slippery about it.

[AllieB]

77. Saturated fat raises HDL and lowers Triclycerides

It has no effect on LDL, which is considered-along with triglycerides-the leading indicators of heart disease. Taubes' book meticulously documents the studies that prove this and shows how scientists chose to ignore this fact in order to get research money from the AHA and corporate interests. It's much like how the MSM doesn't give Democrats a fair shake because the media is corrupted by Republican money. The mainstream health media is corrputed by Big Pharma money (have you ever looked at the number of statin ads in "Prevention" magazine?) and agribusiness.

[KurtNYC]

101. Triglycerides

The American Heart Assoc mostly concurs with your statement about the relationship between fat and HDL but recommends monounsaturated fats:

People with high triglycerides may need to substitute monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats —such as those found in canola oil, olive oil or liquid margarine — for saturated fats. Substituting carbohydrates for fats may raise triglyceride levels and may decrease HDL ("good") cholesterol in some people.

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4778

Research done in countries with single payer health care systems (which incentivises prevention) lead to the banning of trans fat in Canada. This forced major food companies to reformulate their products for all of north america. My point is there is a limit to group think and its effects.

[Anwen]

109. Actually, saturated fat raises LDL and cholesterol...

and it appears to have no real effect on HDL. I will look for a web link to back it up, but I am studying nutrition right now, and we just finished the chapter & exam on Triglycerides (which I aced :)

Saturated and Trans fat are the ones that raise cholesterol and LDL's, while good fats like Omega-3 and monounsaturated fats apparently raise HDL's.

[Anwen]

121. Oops, it does raise HDL too.

Upon further research, saturated fat does raise HDL along with LDL. But saturated fats do raise cholesterol because the HDL being raised is pretty much negated by the LDL going up, too.

[hedgehog]

123. My take on saturated fats is this: for centuries, people in my

family probably had one or two cows and no grocery store. If they wanted butter, they drank skim milk. They probably slaughtered one or two pigs a year and maybe if times were really good, a couple of chickens. So I buy butter and skim milk and try to keep meat portions small.

What's really funny? Most of my kids are pretty lean, but I have pictures of some of them sitting down munching away on a stick of butter. Little kids need a lot of energy!

[pitohui]

37. we followed a low fat diet for 20 years, result, my husband has metabolic syndrome

it breaks my heart what i did to his health, not knowing the harm that replacing dairy/meat/butter and olive oil with lots and lots of brown rice and other grains did to him

you simply can't be satisfied easily on a low fat diet so you end up eating a LOT of grain, especially if you don't normally consume sweets, as we didn't

and all the while the science was bad, they knew in the 1950s the science was bad from the look of this article

and we wonder why diabetes has become epidemic in this country

my husband's numbers are much better on a low carb diet, but it's tough, i wonder if this would be necessary if we'd followed a more moderate diet, instead of a low fat diet for all those years

[Locrian]

41. what is metabolic syndrome?

I had adrenal fatigue that played HELL with my metabolism. Cortisol (what the adrenal glands produce) is part of the krebs cycle etc. That and low thyroid (T3 to be exact) was a big issue.

Besides stress, I had been on a high carb (vegan type) diet. Doesnt work for me at all. Now, with better diet as well as hormone supplements and cortisol I feel like Im 25 again.

[pitohui]

43. pre-diabetes or syndrome x are other names for it

my husband says he feels 10 years younger on the low carb diet

[DemBones DemBones]

47. I'm sorry to hear that. You thought you were

doing the right thing. We have had so much conflicting advice about diet in the past forty years, nobody knows what to believe any more. One week coffee is bad for you, the next week it's good for you.

My skinny grandmother always said you had to have some fat in your diet for your hair and skin so now that we're vegetarians, we still use olive oil and other oil and don't hesitate to eat bread with olive oil. We also get fat from the cheese we still eat. Soy cream cheese by Tofutti is delicious but so far there is no good soy Cheddar or Gouda! We lost fifty pounds just by giving up meat and most dairy and have kept it off for two years.

[Dorian Gray]

53. I saw soemthing on television

where a doctor was saying bread WITH Olive Oil was healthier than bread WITHOUT O.O. Even though it's calorically higher.

Oh, and the fats in salad dressings help you ingest the beneficial vitamins and minerals in the veggies. I tend to make my own, but sometimes I buy a fat free dressing and add a tablespoon of Extra Virgin Olive Oil to the mix. (That way I can control what I put in.)

[lildreamer316]

93. Hey - coconut oil is good too!

have you tried?
WONDERS for your hair also; ingested or applied...and really good on burns!

[Dorian Gray]

48. Certain fats are really healthy for you...

Avocados, Olive Oil, Walnuts and Almonds, Omega 3s from Flax and Salmon. Eat up that Guac. Enjoy that sushi! Add a handful of nuts and Cheese to your salad.

But, don't deep fry everything. Fries and Twinkies have no health benefits. :) (Different types of fats!)

[killbotfactory]

51. What about trans saturated fat?

Trans fat is bad for you and causes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_fat#Health_risks">all sorts of problems like heart disease. The only reason that crap is in our diet is because it's cheap to produce.

[Anwen]

108. Yep! Avoid trans fat like the plague.

Certain fats are good for you and actually lower cholesterol, like Omega 3 fats found in nuts, avocado, etc. Even polyunsaturated fats like olive oil are good for you in small doses.

But saturated fats and *especially* Trans fat are to be avoided at all costs! Those are the ones that raise your "bad" cholesterol even higher than eating actual cholesterol does.

[Nia Zuri]

117. In a few years, you will learn that there is nothing wrong with

saturated fats. Yes transfats are horrible, but there is ntohing wrong with animal fats or saturated fats. Yes,transfats are horrible, but cholesterol in the diet has nothing to do with cholesterol in your body. You heard it here.

[Anwen]

120. Of course nothing is wrong with saturated fats....

Unless you eat too much. I'm not saying don't ever eat them, but in order to maintain ideal heart health and body weight, you should only eat your daily recommended level of saturated fats (preferably no more that 20g per day), and try to replace them as often as possible with Omega-3 fats and monounsaturated & polyunsaturated fats.

[denem]

132. You are studying nutrition?

Olive Oil is monounsaturated - the "best" saturation, as is Canola/Rape seed. Sunflower is an example of a polyunsaturated fat. This is very basic stuff.

[Anwen]

135. Gosh...

In my haste, I guess I forgot to type polyunsaturated fats AND monounsaturated fats like Olive Oil. My bad. I do in fact know the difference. Thanks for your condescension, though!

[Blackhatjack]

58. I read his chp on tryglycerides and cholestral and looked back at my med records/labs & he is right

It is the carbohydrates that drive the high numbers of bad substances. He pointed out that the majority of carbohydrates are composed of 'highly refined' grains, starches and sugars.

It is not the fats I consumed that spiked my lab reports, but rather the carbohydrates.

Cutting out soft drinks that have HFCS in them was a huge help. I still drink the occasional soft drink, but I find the ones made with pure cane sugar have a less detrimental effect. I drink flavored seltzer water and spring water most of the time now.

Increase your intake of vegetables and reduce the amount of rice, especially white rice, and other starches, and keep your fat level at a moderate level, and you will see your lab numbers go down --even without exercising.

I check 2 yrs of records and it panned out for me.

[depakid]

63. Do your own empirical experiment

Eat a pint of Haggen Daz every day for two weeks.

See what happens.

[BadgerLaw2010]

64. Eat 1500 calories/day of food you like and a multivitamin, you will lose weight (adult male).

Basic physics. You burn more energy than you take in in a day, weight goes down. You can eat honey BBQ chicken wings if you want.

[eridani]

70. Maybe, maybe not.

It isn't necessarily possible to burn more energy than you take in. Cut your calories, and what you "need" will drop as well, instantly for some people.

[AllieB]

78. It's not that simple.

Insulin has a lot to do with how people burn calories-and don't burn calories. The metabolic efficiency of a food may vary with the state of the body.

[ecstatic]

66. Point blank: You can't go wrong if you eat foods found in nature

Even if you do it in large amounts. Anything artificial/man made and that's when you will have problems.

My problem is I feel betrayed by the government for pushing this Diet Soda/Diet drink trend for so many years. I've been using that stuff for like 7 years, with the Aspartame in it. I finally looked up the dangers of Aspartame and now I feel like I should have took my chances with loads of sugary drinks. I have no idea what damage I may have done to my body at this point.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

71. About sodas

I thought about that too, but then I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes. I figure I'll die younger from sky high blood sugar levels than aspartame caused cancer. I guess the best option for me is to cut sodas altogether but I just can't do it.

[ecstatic]

88. :( I can live without soda, but I can't do the plain water thing

So now I'm taking my chances with Splenda. (sigh)

[Snarkturian Clone]

67. I don't listen to any of it.

Don't eat this, eat that, shop and so-and-so store. I ignore it all. Why? Everytime some diet comes along it's debunked shortly after. Is it possible that nutrition is just pseudoscience? I don't believe it is but I wouldn't be surprised if we found out it was.


flamesuit activated.

[Mike03]

68. Gary Taubes is a good author, and

I enjoyed his book "Bad Science" enough to buy two copies, but I have a feeling I might disagree with him on this issue.

In any event, he can eat however he wants to eat. After having read so many papers, studies and books on diet and chronic disease, I'll just continue to exercise avidly, avoid sugar and processed foods, as well as saturated animal fats and animal proteins.

EDIT:

Especially dairy

[pink-o]

73. Okay...let's look at this long-term

...I grew up in the 60s and 70s and the one person I remember who didn't smoke, drink excessively or sit around in an office eating donuts all day was Jack LaLanne. Dude just had his 92nd birthday, and is in better shape than most people 1/3 of his age.

When the media asked LaLanne his secret, he said he lifts weights 4 hours a day (and more power to him: I can't stand strength bearing exercise more than 3 times a week!) but that if people only did one workout, they could stay totally healthy and in-shape by....

Swimming.

So all I was saying earlier is that there's no magic bullet, no pill, no fad diet that's gonna get you in shape. The answer is simple: exercise, burn off more calories than you take in and stay away from processed foods that have chemical ingredients you can't pronouce. I mean, we'll all eat M & Ms, Doritos and Oreos, we just can't eat them every day. And cutting out fat or carbs does nothing except make you unhappy and craving.

One other thing: (I've said this before and I'll continue to bang the drum) DO NOT BELIEVE A WORD THE FOOD INDUSTRY SAYS!! Their goal is to sell their crappy, processed, non-nutrional slop that passes for sustenance, and anyone who commissions a study can manipulate the results. So General Mills can tell you their sugar and corn syrup laden cereal is "whole grain" and therefore good for you. Seriously, that's tantamount to the Bushies saying we're winning in Iraq--the same attempt at brainwashing to disguise the real agenda which is (as always) $$$$$$$ for those in power.

There is a huge industry out there, all who have a vested interest in keeping Americans nutritionally ignorant, overweight and unhealthy. We have to educate ourselves, as we've done with the Bushco agenda, in order to not get caught up in it!

[AllieB]

80. Spot on about the food industry!

One other thing: (I've said this before and I'll continue to bang the drum) DO NOT BELIEVE A WORD THE FOOD INDUSTRY SAYS!! Their goal is to sell their crappy, processed, non-nutrional slop that passes for sustenance, and anyone who commissions a study can manipulate the results. So General Mills can tell you their sugar and corn syrup laden cereal is "whole grain" and therefore good for you. Seriously, that's tantamount to the Bushies saying we're winning in Iraq--the same attempt at brainwashing to disguise the real agenda which is (as always) $$$$$$$ for those in power.

There is a huge industry out there, all who have a vested interest in keeping Americans nutritionally ignorant, overweight and unhealthy. We have to educate ourselves, as we've done with the Bushco agenda, in order to not get caught up in it!

What kills me are the Democrats/progressives who always question the political motivations of our government but swallow the health and diet information without hook, line, and sinker.

[OzarkDem]

74. Easier to blame people for what they eat than to provide health care

Conservatives and the corporate news media have long pushed flimsy research on diet and exercise in an attempt to derail real health care reform and justify letting insurance companies provide less coverage.

They have many doctors on the payroll, like Koop, to back them up.

[Katherine Brengle]

83. Fat is not bad for you.

Certain kinds (trans really) yes, but fat itself is a necessary and healthy part of any human diet.

The fat myth was created by the diet industry and will be perpetuated as long as they can get away with it.

[Mike03]

100. Certain fats are good for you, but the best

fats are fats found in nature, in foods like raw nuts, avocados, almond and peanut butters. The fat found in most animals is contaminated with hormones, dioxins, and long-ago banned fungicides and pesticides that are still in the ground and fed to cattle or end up in the water with the fish.

For every "fat myth" perpetrated by diet companies, just remember the enormous lobbying industry for meat and dairy, who don't want you to know that animal protein causes cancer, and rBGH (Bovine Growth Hormone)-containing pure fats like those found in milk and dairy accelerate the growth of cancer cells.

I frankly think the dairy and meat industries have the more powerful lobbying. Otherwise, the food pyramid would not be the deceptive disgrace that it is.

[Katherine Brengle]

118. Oh absolutely --

I couldn't agree more.

I feel best on relatively high carbs, good quality proteins, and a decent intake of all kinds of fats -- on a high protein low carb diet I felt like death all the time. And I'm of Western European stock, so it's not them fancy Asian rice genes or anything :).

[lildreamer316]

94. We need to listen to our bodies more.

We need to learn to trust ourselves.
I am sure it may not work for everyone; but it has worked for me and my husband for years...
If I crave something; I get it. Then I'm done.
My weight fluctuates naturally up and down to a max of 10 lbs. depending on time of month, year, my mood; etc.
I'm learning more about what my body wants and will tolerate; and it is getting pickier, but that's fine.
Oh, and I love me some red wine...the French have it right there, too.

[Mike03]

102. There's an epidemic of chronic disease in the U.S.

And to think that it has nothing to do with our deteriorating diets is pretty ridiculous. People always are searching for others to confirm to them that they should not improve their eating and lifestyle habits. I think in many cases health is a choice.

[distantearlywarning]

107. Everybody should strive to improve diet and health.

And it IS up to us to work it out for ourselves. Nobody is going to sit us down and put the vegetables in our mouths for us. Nor are they going to invent a magic pill that makes Doritos good for us.

But wouldn't it be nice if corporate America didn't throw so many obstacles in our way?

[Mike03]

112. Yes

Obstacles, you mean, like misinformation and the food pyramid, which was practically designed by the dairy industry?

No, you are very correct; the government entities such as the FDA and even, I hate to say it, some well known and respected disease "societies" persist in dispensing bad information. Until very recently, most diabetes organizations were still telling their patients to eat foods that are refined and high on the glucose scale. They were pushing refined carbs. I've heard, but have not confirmed, that the advice to diabetics is improving, and that some studies just came out within the past month that say diabetes Type II can be reversed with diet and exercise alone.

That is one reason I have quite a bit of compassion for American consumers. It is like navigating a maze trying to figure out what is healthy and what is unhealthy, and most people here are working themselves to the bone. How are they supposed to find time to do medical research?

[AllieB]

136. Correction

Obstacles, you mean, like misinformation and the food pyramid, which was practically designed by the dairy industry?

It was actually designed by the grain industry (Cargill, General Mills, Archer Daniels Midland, etc). Who the hell can eat 6-7 servings of carbohydrates daily and not end up diabetic?

I agree about dairy. We can live without it. The barrage of misinformation from the FDA, health associations, and doctors certainly make it nearly impossible to decide on a healthy diet. Also, have you ever noticed the conflicting information anout disease? One day, this thing helps prevent cancer. The next study shows it causes cancer. It really is annoying.

[Mike03]

138. I share your exasperation

Ascertaining the truth about what constitutes a healthy lifestyle has become nearly a full time job, and who has the time to refer to the actual text of the studies in order to figure out what they are actually saying as opposed to the frequently erroneous versions converted into meaningless or frightening soundbytes we hear on Paul Harvey News and Comment and venues of that ilk.

But there have been some incredibly disingenuous spins on major studies, such as the very long term nurses study, the one that purported to demonstate that women who ate "low fat" diets had no less breast cancer than women who did not avoid high levels of fat. What they called "Low Fat" is what most citizens of China and the East, where cancer is rare, would consider gluttonous consumption of fat. So the studies need to be honest in the first place. Many of them are sponsored by corporate factory farming.

The dairy claims have been absurd. Not long ago it was claimed that eating cheese every day made people thin. Cheese is not just a fatty food, it is 100% fat, filled with recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone, unless it is organic.

[AllieB]

139. The Nurses Study (89,000 nurses over 20+ years)

actually found that higher fat consumption resulted in less cancer, according to Gary Taubes book Good Calories, Bad Calories:

In 1999, the Harvard researchers published fourteen years of observations. By then almost three thousand nurses had contracted breast cancer, and the data still suggested that eating fatty foods (even those with copious saturated fat) might protect against cancer. For every 5 percent of saturated-fat calories that replaced carbohydrates in the diet, the risk of breast cancer decreased by 9 percent.

The mainstream media would never admit that salient fact.

[KT2000]

115. Sometimes it is

someone else's choice.
Think about the air that you breathe - it is now full of auto exhaust, formaldehyde, sulfuric acid, pesticides that are manufactured for the purpose of killing.
The interior of homes has the worst air quality and the highest levels of pesticides. Carpeting is an effective shoe cleaner that retains chemicals that rely upon sunlight and water to dissipate.

If you live next door to a yard nut who relies upon chemicals - you are exposed to neurotoxic chemicals that can cause brain disorders and cancer in children.

Many of the chemicals we are currently exposed to are deposited in our fat tissues - the brain is loaded with fat.
These chemicals are released into the bloodstream upon dieting, exertion and stress.

Just saying - there are certainly choices we make for ourselves but we must look beyond that to discover the truth. We are all living in a toxic soup!

[Mike03]

116. I stand corrected

You are absolutely correct. There are environmental toxins over which we have no control, and we are exposed to them in plastics, tap water, overcooked meat, insecticides at our schools or apartments, incineration debris, etc...

I will edit my prior post to reflect what you are saying.

EDIT:

It's too late to add what you are saying to my previous post, but I definitely agree with you. In fact, a relative of mine now has a cancer that was most likely caused by his exposure to some chemical like asbestos or dioxin at a young age.

Thank you for your comment.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

111. Autoimmune diseases are increasing.

And they often cause weight gain, like diabetes or Hashimoto's thyroiditis(the most common form of hypothyroidism).

So the self righteous people who don't have a weight problem can say "If you only ate less, you'd lose weight". Not always true. Metabolic syndrome is quite common.

But it makes the naturally skinny people feel better to say that.

[distantearlywarning]

113. I have basically stopped responding to posts like that anymore.

It's pointless. Those people will never understand until it happens to them. It's just too hurtful to try to argue about it with the skinny smugheads anymore.

But secretly, I do kind of wish that it WOULD happen to those posters who say things like, "Just eat 1500 calories a day and the weight will melt off!" or "It's a simple matter of calories in vs. calories out!". Not that I think any of them would come back 50 lbs later and admit that they didn't quite have the whole story...

[knitter4democracy]

146. I feel the same way.

I can't explain what's going on with my body because no one knows, really. It's like pain--until people really experience severe pain, they don't get it. I lived with appendicitis for ten years, the last year of which was a constant, never-ending hell. I can't take narcotics, so I got to deal with that and my kidney surgery with ibuprofen and lots of breathing and moaning. Try to explain to someone that it really is possible to pass out from pain when that person's never had anything worse than a mild headache--it's impossible to get through.

[Mike03]

114. Sadly, you are right

There is a lot of insensitivity that goes along whenever health and weight and diet issues come up. People very close to me are overweight due to something other than their intake of food; it won't be long before the pieces of the puzzle come together, and it may end this unfair prejudice towards people who are overweight due to unknown causes.

As a migraine sufferer, I remember a time when people simply thought I was malingering because I had a "headache." Now it is more commonly understood that migraine is not just a headache. It won't be long before that becomes true of other syndromes, including those that result in people being overweight.

[knitter4democracy]

147. Migraines are awful.

Frankly, they scare me. It's not just the horrendous kill-me-now pain but all the other symptoms and the come-and-go nature of it. Heck, I'd rather have my pain. At least I can still mostly function with my odd abdominal pain. My best friend is just wiped out on a migraine.

Best book on pain ever: All in my Head by Paula Kamen. She really nails what it's like to live with pain, especially headache and migraine.

[slackmaster]

131. Bacon and eggs for breakfast, with a side of smoked salmon

Add half a grapefruit and a cup of strong coffee, I'm good to go.

[Blue_Tires]

141. ttt nt