Do you think most dems in the US are more middle of the road?

[ourbluenation]

more centrist folks?

[Richardo]

1. Yes.

[Marrah_G]

2. I think they are left of the middle and right of DU. n/t

[ourbluenation]

5. me too. so really aren't they actually the base?

doesn't that explain Hillary's lead and why Kucinich is in nowhere land? (I am not supporting Hillary in the primaries, btw).

[Rhythm and Blue]

8. Depends on what you mean by "base."

They're the largest base of support and money by far. We're the base in terms of intellectual activity and volunteerism, though we're small in numbers. Our power in the party is even further hampered by the fact that many of us don't actually vote for Democrats.

[ourbluenation]

13. we're the base in terms of intellectual activity? The base doesn't vote for democrats?

:shrug:

I consider myself a left of center, but not far left, and I'm a dyed in the wool dem.

guess i'm not part of the smart kids group.

[Rhythm and Blue]

17. By that, I mean

the netroots--everyone here--is part of a rather rapid-fire exchange of ideas, in which good ones (opposition to the Iraq war, demand for health-care reform, maybe Bush should be impeached) find voices and support, slowly spreading into society at large, and bad ones (Hillary is going to start a war with Iran, Bush did 9/11) are rejected by the majority, and stay confined to small groups. The far left is the most active voice in this, and comes up with the most "ideas;" of course most of them get shot down, but a few will sneak out.

The "base" can mean several different things. But in the most commonly used sense--that is, "the people who form the majority of voting base of the party"--the base is further right than DU is. Getting more specific than that is difficult, simply because our party is so fractured.

[ourbluenation]

18. yo do realize that there are moderate DU'rs, right?

I myself, am a progresserate. :P

Moderate on some things, progressive on most.

[Rhythm and Blue]

20. Of course there are.

But DU, as a body, is rather left-wing.

[Forkboy]

14. That sounds about right.

I think you nailed it.

[Iris]

3. They'd probably describe themselves that way

now that "liberal" is akin to "baby eater"

[MADem]

4. Yes. NT

[WCGreen]

6. I know they are...

A large contingency of Catholic voters want to vote for the democrats...

It's in their make-up...

[Rhythm and Blue]

7. Certainly.

Polling bears that out.

[The Stranger]

9. If you go issue-by-issue (i.e., war, health care, fiscal policy, civil liberties, civil rights) you

may find them right in line with DU. It is truly amazing.

But, on the other hand, if you listen to the incessant lying of the corporate media and its demonizing of the Left and patholocial aversion to any discussion of substantive issues, then they would have you believe that anyone who doesn't listen to Rush Limbaugh is "radical" and "extremely liberal."

Wake up, DU. Wake up.

[mondo joe]

11. But DUers are always telling other DUers they are not real progressives or liberals.

Even when issue-by-issue we mostly agree.

[ourbluenation]

15. thank you. this is not liberal underground or progressive underground...it's democratic underground.

the greenies, leftie libertarians must find this place very frustrating.

[The Stranger]

33. The base of the Democratic party is "liberal" and "progressive."

It is the War Party "Democrats" that run around claiming they own the party -- when in fact what they are touting is the betrayal of the "Democratic" leadership of its own base.

[John Q. Citizen]

26. Exactly. That's why Kucinich is the only centrist in the race, since his issues,

right down the line, are the only ones supported by a majority of the American people.

Even Cindy Sheehan is apparently a centrist, since she has endorsed Kucinich.

[IndianaJones]

10. yes. nt.

[rurallib]

12. Considering how far to the right that "middle of the road"

is now defined as, I would say no.
Back in my younger days I was considered MOR even a little right wing (late '60s, early '70s). My views have changed little - fiscal conservative & socially liberal. Now I am way out on the so called left wing.
While many people like to describe themselves as MOR I would be willing to bet that if queried on individual issues their answers would be considered left wing.
I believe a lot of people try to stay in the middle simply so they don't stand out in the crowd. The right wing has taken advantage of this desire for anonymity. With the media leading the way, the perception of what is middle has been dragged far to the right and many people subsequently identify with it.
Not sure if that makes sense. Does to me.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. Makes sense to me.

My basic ideas haven't changed significantly in 35 years since my first presidential election, but every year I find myself relegated to the farther and farther left, to where now I'm next thing to Lenin.

It's like a slow-moving earthquake - the ground is shifting under my feet, changing where I stand without my own will.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Most Americans are conformists. The go along to get along.

They are interested in politics only when the antics of politicians affect the personally.

[bpeale]

19. i think they are stupid sheep

[MethuenProgressive]

21. Most people, democrats and republican alike, are centrists.

But it's the fringes that cause the trouble and make all the noise.
YMMV

[Richardo]

23. This is the correct answer.

:applause:

[stimbox]

22. The middle of the road is for yellow lines and dead armadillos. -- Jim Hightower

He said it best.

[TahitiNut]

24. No. I think they're just quite willing to jettison principles when told they're "losers."

Thus, it's almost inconsequential to speculate on the 'left vs. middle vs. right' position of a partisan "Dem" - since so many adhere to the faux ideology of zero-sum 'gamesmanship' rather than well=established poltical principles. This plays out on DU over and over again. There's what I'd say is a misapprehension that principles and values are virtually useless baggage in retail politics.

I think the recent poll regarding political stances (as mapped by the Political Compass) shows that DUers' personal viewpoints are solidly liberal-leftist. Yet many/most succumb to the myth of 'exceptionalism' - that they're exceptional people and most people are so 'enlightened' or well-informed or whatever. Thus, they're inclined to be active against their own values in a quadrenially steady lockstep march to the eastern cliffs.

But that perspective is, I suppose, to be expected from an independent liberal such as myself. :shrug: It's sad.

[RaleighNCDUer]

29. The question is, where is the base on that Political Compass?

I believe that MOST dems fall in the liberal/leftist quadrant - despite the fact that most our candidates are in the authoritarian/right quadrant. That is why they are dems, and THAT is the reason our party is in such disarray - after 30 years of republican control, our candidates think they need to play to the right, where our base is NOT.

I would really like to see a general sampling of typical dems on Political Compass - I think it would surprise a few people here.

[TahitiNut]

30. The point I'm trying to make is that it's moot.

The effective majority of Dem partisans, as is abundantly shown on DU, don't vote their consciences ... i.e. they DON'T vote their principles and values. Dem partisans call such folks "purists" and demean them .. and then they extol the holy-of-holies: "pragmatism." This is then followed with the regurgitation of the simplistic and superficial rationalizations that're as old as the hills - delivered as though the person just visited the Oracle at Delphi.

It's the most pervasive fracture at DU, imho. The suppression (continuing pressure to surrender and compromise on one's personal political orientation) results in some heightened reactivity in other areas. It's much of why Nader is so venomously vilified. It's much of why self-proclaimed 'liberals' and 'progressives' are willing (and even eager) to abandon some of the more fundamental values and eagerly impose regressive taxes and extreme punishment ... under certain "PC" conditions. The principles of tax equity and caution in exerting the police powers of the state get thrown out. It's not so much the reactivity to the right and GOP as it is a reactivity to the constant "peer pressure" to assume partisan positions that're a real stretch from what each prefers.

Again, however, I subscribe to a deontological ethic and accommodate pragmatism at the tactical level, NOT the strategic and principled level. Thus, it's not surprising I'd have the above viewpoint.

[John Q. Citizen]

32. I agre, They don't even vote their issues or their own self interest. This is

a charge that has been made against lower income white Southern voters for instance, who vote Republican.

But I think in general, that the majority of voters don't vote their issues and don't vote their self interests.

They vote from there personal identification with a personality, and they vote out of fear.

Issues and self interest come in a distant second; Never mind about priciple and values.

[John Q. Citizen]

25. I'm not sure what you mean by your terminology. For example, let's take

the issue of Social Security.

Presumably the rightwing would like to privatize social security. They don't like that it's a government run program.

Lefties are presumibly against privitizing social security. They like that it's a government run system.

Do centrists/middle of the road people believe that half of the funds invested in the system should be privatized and half should be run by the government system?

I don't know of anyone who holds that centrist view. Everyone I know either thinks that social security is a good idea, or they believe that it is a bad idea. I don't know anyone who is in favor of half the system being public and half the system being private. Do those people really exist? Do you know anybody who believes that the US should take half the money out of the Government run system and put it into private hands?

Or the issue of Abortian. The rightwing believe it should be criminalized, that it's murder. The Left believes that it should be the choice of the woman. Do centrists/middle of the road people believe that abortian should be a misdomeanor? I don't know anyone who believes that. Or do centrists/middle of the roaders believe that in half the cases of abortian the woman should be tried for murder and in half the cases it should be the woman's right? Or do they believe that if a woman has 2 abortians in her life that one should be legal and one should be illegal?

See, I think the whole concept of "centrist/middle of the road" is a bogus model. There are people who have different views on issues, yet there isn't anyone who is in fact a "centrist."

[porphyrian]

28. No, I think left and right (and middle) are arbitrary designations.

People, and what they consider important, are not static. They are dynamic, in a constant state of flux. That isn't to say that people don't gravitate towards certain beliefs most of the time, we do. However, the priority of each indicator used to identify someone as a lefty or centrist (or right-wing fuckhead) varies from individual to individual based on their personal experience, which is temporal and constantly changing.

For example, a person may believe that killing another person is generally wrong, that there should be no death penalty and that we should have gun control to the point where almost no one has them - a generic leftist position. Later in their life, their spouse is murdered by a remorseless thug with a long rap sheet. At this point, they feel the death penalty is justified, not only for revenge, but for the safety of all of the thug's potential future victims. Also, because of the anxiety created by the event, the person not only reverses their position on gun control, but they go out and purchase a handgun. Now, that person appears to be a rightist, based on those positions. But what if they also believe in universal health care, ending corporate welfare and increasing regulation and a comprehensive plan to nationalize illegal immigrants? Are they now a centrist? And how does what the person perceives themself to be factor in?

The problem is with the terminology and how these terms are defined. If "left" is strictly defined by a set of positions and "right" is strictly defined by another opposing set, then everyone else is "centrist," which would literally be almost everyone, since very few people rigidly fit any one category for any length of time. But, if we're mostly centrists, then why isn't there a centrist party? Are we being forcibly polarized into a false political binary? Or is it that we simply need a better definition of centrism than "not strictly left or right?"

[Phillycat]

31. Than on DU? Hell yes!