US holds 860 Iraqi's 16 and younger

[cal04]

US detains nearly 25,000 in Iraq
AFP

The US military is holding nearly 25,000 people in its prisons in Iraq, 860 of whom are under the age of 16, the general in charge of their detention said on Wednesday.

Eighty-three percent of inmates are Sunnis and 16 percent are Shiite, General Douglas Stone told a press conference in Baghdad.

Egyptians, Iranians, Saudis and Syrians number among 280 foreign nationals imprisoned by the US military in Iraq, he said.

There are two prisons run by the Americans on Iraqi soil: one at their Camp Cropper base outside Baghdad, the other at Camp Bucca near the southern port of Umm Qasr.

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/US_detains_nearly_25_000_in_Iraq_10102007.html

[MadMaddie]

1. With the history of the prisons run by the US...do you believe

they are treating these kids decently? I am sadly not so confident.

These prison kids are tomorrows terrorists....wanting to seek revenge.. I really hope they are being treated well.

[PDJane]

2. According to Seymour Hersh,

that's not the case. He says that children have been sexually abused in order to get their parents to give themselves up or to obtain information.

He has tapes where you can hear the young boys crying. It's not the answer folks.

[MadMaddie]

4. These are war crimes..these crimes are of the level of the Nazi's

torturing and justifying...their behavior...

The world knows the truth....we know the truth....

[Hangingon]

5. Sorry, I just don't believe this.

[Danger Mouse]

7. why not?

[Hangingon]

9. Well, first it is Seymour Hersh...

Next I don't believe anyone would authorize sexual torture - especially after Abu Grahib.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. So you admit they authorized it before abu ghraib?

[Hangingon]

12. No I don't admit "they" authorized it before AG...

As far as I know, a court has for=und two or three people guilty of criminal acts. In addition, the military has taken administrative actions against some others.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. The officers got slaps on the wrists.

The first thing they did in response to the photos was ban cameras.

There are documents authorizing torture with Bush's name on them.

So you can go ahead and deny all you want, but I don't think you're fooling nobody.

[AuntPatsy]

8. Don't you recall several years ago that the issue of such tapes was well known

and our government fought the release of such tapes stating that to do so would be hurtful towards national security, I recall we waited and waited hoping they would be released but they won and they were not, why did they fight the release of tapes they swore were not even that bad? Does that make sense to you?

[Hangingon]

10. According to PDJane, Seymour Hersh has the tapes.

I have not see anything about this on network or cable news or in the newspapers. I just do not believe this.

[PDJane]

13. I meant to say he had seen the tapes.

That was his claim. The tapes have not been released, even after a long court battle. Gee, why do you think that might be?

The abuse was authorized at the top. This administration authorized the rape of children in front of their parents, among other despicable things.

Your government has very red hands.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2004/07/15/hersh/
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/05/24/040524fa_fact
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/03/1411207

[Hangingon]

14. And your actual proof of this?

A Seymour Hersh article where he now says he has seen the tapes? Come back with something real and I take you seriously. Otherwise worry about your own country.

[PDJane]

15. Oh, hell............

Men, women and yes, children. Rape as a tool of war.

MIKLASZEWSKI: U.S. military officials tell NBC News, the unreleased images, show American soldiers severely beating one Iraqi prisoner to near death; apparently, raping an Iraqi female prisoner; acting inappropriately with a dead body; and Iraqi guards apparently videotaped by U.S. soldiers raping young boys.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4945202/
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/14864

Rape of women:
http://www.countercurrents.org/iraq-nadia230704.htm
http://www.aztlan.net/iraqi_women_raped.htm

The Bybee Memo:
http://www.discourse.net/archives/2004/06/olcs_aug_1_2002_torture_memo_the_bybee_memo.html

Yoo Commentary:
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2005/01/05_johnyoo.shtml

Eye witness:
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0509-33.htm

Yes, Canada has done thing that make me ashamed too. For instance, the actions of a unit in Somalia in torturing a teen to death and continual abuse of the First Nations people (no, they aren't "indians"). Our actions in support of the US...holding the bully's coat...are the ones that bother me most of all.

That we are to blame does not absolve the US, and it doesn't mean I can't see what's going on. The US army follows the Corporations. They are a tool of imperial power, and freedom hasn't got a damn thing to do with it.

[Hangingon]

16. I see one credible source on your list - MSNBC.

AS far as I am concerned, he rest are whack jobs. And, you have jumped back to AG - when I said I didn't believe the OP's claim of any currently held prisoners being raped. I still don't believe that and you have not shown me anything that has changed my mind.

[PDJane]

17. The least credible source is NBC.

We have a difference in perception.

[PDJane]

18. Please note that the common dreams article

is from the Independent, in the UK.....a very credible source.

[Hangingon]

19. I don't care if it is the Independent...

I don't believe that biased article. You can give it up lady, I am just not buying. I am quite sure we disagree on the meaning of torture, the truthfulness of islamofascists and many other things.

[PDJane]

21. We disagree on

The moral clarity and truthfulness of your government is what we mainly disagree on.......along with that islamofascist thing. Are you sure that DU is the place for you?

[Hangingon]

22. Yes I am sure I have a place on DU...

From the rules...

2. Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.

As a Democrat, and a voter in the United States, I think I have every right to express my views. I think I meet the "generally supportive of prtrogressive ideals" part of the Who We Are.

What gives you the right to question my presence?

[Marrah_G]

23. Welcome to DU

You have to have a thick skin here or learn to use the ignore feature alot.

Anyway...welcome to DU!

[Hangingon]

24. Thanks Marrah_G

Never used ignore. Guess I'd better lear.

[Marrah_G]

25. It makes life more peaceful somedays.

[PDJane]

26. Ah, well..........

Your unwillingness to believe:

1. That men taken from their homes and girlfriends and lives and thrown into an endless occupation in a place where the climactic conditions are rigorous, the people don't want them, and casual brutality and corruption is the norm would refrain from rape as torture and retaliation, and
2. Sources out of the mainstream, and your willingness to villify Seymour Hersh, who has been right more often than wrong, display a rigidity that isn't truly in tune with a democratic perspective.

[Hangingon]

27. Yes, "Ah Well"...

Condescension noted.

"That men taken from their homes and girlfriends and lives and thrown into an endless occupation in a place where the climactic conditions are rigorous, the people don't want them, and casual brutality and corruption is the norm would refrain from rape as torture and retaliation".

My son-in-law spent 27 months in Iraq, my nephew spent 13 months in country, and three other young men and women I have know personally have served. They were all ABLE to refrain from rape as torture and retaliation. This isn't in the spirit of US fighting forces. Is it normal behavior for canadian fighting forces under stress? If it is it would be a surprise to me. Certainly, I would want solid sources to make me believe it. The young people I know who have served speak with compassion about the plight of the majority of Iraqi people.

My unwillingness to believe "Sources out of the mainstream, and your willingness to vilify Seymour Hersh, who has been right more often than wrong, display a rigidity that isn't truly in tune with a democratic perspective".

Yes, I question my information sources. People of maturity do. I was educated to ask questions about who and why people say things in print. Sources like Aztlan and Islam on Line are hardly impartial. I found the citation of an posting by "Jack" on Discourse.net - on the fringes of public discourse simply amazing and amusing. As to my willingness to "vilify" Seymour Hersh, I do NOT believe he is right more than he is wrong. Lately, many of his assertions have not stood up to scrutiny. In his prime, he was a good reporter but he I has lost much of his objectivity in his dislike for the present administration. Many of us dislike the present situation, but we retain standards if that is "rigidity" so be it. I see it as integrity - unwillingness to let the end justify any means. I believe I developed my democratic perspective working for Democrats as a teen in Texas, stuffing envelopes for Jack Kennedy as a college student and casting my first Presidential vote for Lyndon Johnson.

If you feel those of us who have done the Lord's work for our lifetime are not in tune with a democratic perspective - from the canadian point of view (?) - perhaps you should start a canadian progressive union.

[AuntPatsy]

6. This cannot be ignored, we cannot let it

[AuntPatsy]

3. that is really pathetic and sick, K n R

[spanone]

20. get the red cross over there right fucking now....are we torturing children????