hisownpetard
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Thu Oct-11-07 11:36 AM
Original message |
Seeking legal opinion: If the telephone companies do not get the retroactive immunity they want |
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and were apparently guaranteed by Bushler, and if they subsequently get sued by citizens whose privacy they invaded illegally, could they then turn around and sue Bush? Or the government? And on what grounds would it be?
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monktonman
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Thu Oct-11-07 11:39 AM
Response to Original message |
1. Why do they need it anyway? |
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If the phone companies aren't doing anything illegal, why do they need this protection? Besides, how the hell am I going to sue a telecom from my cage in Guantanamo?
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bryant69
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Thu Oct-11-07 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
4. You're getting a cage? Wardens pet! |
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I'm pretty sure I'll end up in the pit. Bryant Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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TwilightGardener
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Thu Oct-11-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
6. They DID do something possibly illegal--I'm not sure the wiretapping |
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they did will hold up in the future as legal. But the real beneficiaries of immunity is ChimpCo--if his program is found illegal through court cases against telecoms, then...he pushed illegal policies on them, and they will point the finger at him. Opens a big ugly can of worms against the adnministration, I think.
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hisownpetard
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Thu Oct-11-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
9. Trouble for this administration? The thought of it makes me all warm and fuzzy. n/t |
havocmom
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Thu Oct-11-07 11:40 AM
Response to Original message |
2. And, if they didn't do anything wrong, why do they worry? |
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The fact that the DO worry is a good sign. Means the corporations aren't so sure America won't be restored and rule of law re-established in accordance with the Constitution.
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hisownpetard
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Thu Oct-11-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
8. Judging from how adamant Bush is on getting retroactive immunity for them, it's obvious |
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to me that they violated the right to privacy of American citizens. I'm sure they were strong-armed into it by Bush and his minions.
If that is so, then they deserve to be sued for everything they're worth.
I'm fervently hoping that they would have the right to turn around and sue Bush for misrepresentation or for forcing them to do something illegal.
But it seems to me that, once again, BushCo. will get around this by using the terra excuse.
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hisownpetard
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Thu Oct-11-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
10. Wouldn't that be refreshing? P.S. Go, Sox!!!! |
Ganja Ninja
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Thu Oct-11-07 11:42 AM
Response to Original message |
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But to hell with them anyway. If they were an accomplice to one of Bush's long list of crimes they deserve to get sued. It will serve as an example in the future.
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hisownpetard
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Thu Oct-11-07 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
11. Bush's tag line to Verizon: DO YOU FEAR ME NOW? nt |
Ganja Ninja
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Thu Oct-11-07 01:57 PM
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hisownpetard
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Thu Oct-11-07 02:31 PM
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backscatter712
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Thu Oct-11-07 11:43 AM
Response to Original message |
5. My amateur opinion, no. |
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Congress and the President have immunity to those sorts of lawsuits.
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hisownpetard
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Thu Oct-11-07 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
13. That's what I feared. nt |
onenote
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Thu Oct-11-07 11:45 AM
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Kurt_and_Hunter
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Thu Oct-11-07 01:48 PM
Response to Original message |
12. The term is "Sovereign Immunity" The government cannot be sued unless it consents to be sued. |
hisownpetard
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Thu Oct-11-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
14. Thank you for that info. And, of course, I have no doubt that Bush would consent to be sued |
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if it were for the good of the country. Just like he's going to resign, for the same reason.
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Manifestor_of_Light
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Thu Oct-11-07 02:34 PM
Response to Original message |
17. The Constitution says no ex post facto laws shall be passed. |
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"Ex post facto" is Latin for retroactive laws.
But paraphrasing Nietzsche, 'What is the Constitution to Sons of God?'
The original quote is "What are laws to Sons of God?".
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hisownpetard
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Thu Oct-11-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
18. Wow! So then, how can they even consider passing what Bush is requesting? |
MiniMe
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Thu Oct-11-07 03:14 PM
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19. Nobody knows who is being wire tapped and who isn't. |
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So how can you prove your case?
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hisownpetard
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Thu Oct-11-07 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
MiniMe
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Fri Oct-12-07 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
21. Yeah, we see how well the subpeonas are working now |
hisownpetard
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Fri Oct-12-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
24. And whatever happened to Condoleezzzzzzza's? Someone's sleeping on the job. |
BadgerLaw2010
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Fri Oct-12-07 08:46 AM
Response to Original message |
22. Short answer: Nope. Three layers of problems. |
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Even if the government and Bush didn't have immunity to suit, I don't see a valid claim here. What did the government actually *do* to the telecom companies that caused them injury?
Finally, you run into the issue of trying to sue someone over illegal activity that you were a party to. The courts, bluntly, don't recognize claims resulting from unlawful agreements unless there is some other incident that would be a tort or a contract claim (for example) that wasn't a result of the illegal agreement. I cannot sue you over me joining you in a conspiracy to smuggle drugs.
I could sue you over breach of contract in a real estate purchase agreement that we entered into that had nothing to do with the drug smuggling.
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hisownpetard
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Fri Oct-12-07 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #22 |
23. Thanks for the explanation. nt |
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