Is anyone watching the weapons haul at the home

[malaise]

of the 14 year old in Pennsylvania. He planned a Columbine type attack -had a scythe among the weapons and also had a Hitler book. Press Conference on MSNBC now. A class mate turned him in. You should see this weapons cache.
How did a 14 year old acquire these weapons and knives?

Fuck the NRA.

[JuniperLea]

1. There has always been, and will always be...

a black market in weaponry, with or without the NRA.

Hundreds of felonious gangsters are arrested every month in Los Angeles holding illegal guns... parole violators. These weapons have nothing whatsoever to do with legal weapons. Nothing.

[slackmaster]

29. The one firearm he had was a gift from his mom

Legal.

If it turns out he had actual explosive devices, those would be items that nobody can normally buy anywhere legally (i.e. they would be homebuilt or stolen from police or the military).

[H2O Man]

2. I've seen a few

reports about this situation today. I would think that the investigators will be examining his connections to one of the groups that the SPLC has identified as posing an internal threat to the security of this nation.

[malaise]

5. I would hope so

bomb making material as well - WTF!!

[H2O Man]

14. As Juniperx noted in Post #1,

there is a huge black market for weapons in the US. It involves "organized crime," though not the old-fashioned "mob" that we think of. It's gangs/groups that often are involved in money-making vices, and that invest their profits in weapons. We live in a strange and dangerous time.

[Atman]

3. Crazy lunatics with guns don't kill people...

...the voices in their heads tell them to do it.

.

[NeedleCast]

4. NRA has what to do

with scythes?

[ret5hd]

6. Maybe it was a fully-automatic scythe?

[malaise]

8. A lot more guns and ammo

only one scythe. His mother purchased the 9MM. All these weapons were found in the kid's bedroom. By the way he was home schooled for 18 months.

[atreides1]

12. Home schooled you say

Well fuck home schoolers, or are they not as evil as the NRA is?

[NeedleCast]

18. Maaaaaaybe we should look to the parents

who let said stockpile be built up before we lay this at the doorstep of the NRA.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

50. Homeschooled because he was BULLIED at school

Sounds familiar.

Take a bunch of mean-spirited teens, pick on a "crazy" mean kid, and this is what you get, sometimes. We've seen it before.

[piedmont]

53. Only one gun, and no ammo is what I heard. The rest were toys.

Airsoft guns.

[PRETZEL]

56. I know myself I'm now looking at this from a different perspective

yesterday when the story first broke it appeared only the 9mm was found. The rest apparently were "fake". Today we learned that there were two .22mm weapons that the parents bought. We still don't know if there was ammo purchased and if they were kept with the weapons at the friends house. But as far as I'm concerned this kid wanted to attack the school my daughter goes to. It only takes one shot from one gun to kill my precious daughter. I really don't give a shit what else he had. He had a laser targeted rifle. We don't know just yet if he had the ammo. We know he had a home made bomb that was active. I don't care about the rest of the "toys". What if this kid got the chance to detonate it and my daughter was a victim.

Bruce Castor can make a spectacle of this all he wants for the media. I don't care. My daughter is safe because another kid and his father stepped up and took this seriously.

[piedmont]

59. It's certainly serious, PRETZEL. I was only addressing the "all those guns" comment. nt

[PRETZEL]

60. sorry,

I know.

[LSK]

21. they convinced millions that the 2nd amendment is about individual gun rights

When it only talks about militias.

[benEzra]

22. It doesn't say "the right of militias to keep and bear arms"...

it says "the right of the PEOPLE"...agree or disagree with the intent, that IS the same people as in the 1st and 4th amendments, which in the other amendments is interpreted to mean individuals (i.e., the 4th amendment is not considered a collective right).

And given that 40% of U.S. households, and around one in 4 Dems and indies, personally owns a gun, a heck of a lot of people do subscribe to the interpretation that it is an individual right. The weight of peer-reviewed legal scholarship on the topic leans toward the idea that the right is, indeed, a right of the people, and does not only apply to males between 17 and 45 (e.g., the militia as defined by Federal law).

[LSK]

39. Exact quote:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

And thanks for proving my point.

[benEzra]

45. You've studied grammar. What adjective phrase modifies the word "right" in that sentence?

The prepositional phrase "of the people."

The militia clause is a dependent clause, stating an intended outcome. The right is not connected with or contingent upon the militia; the right of the people to individually own guns makes possible an armed militia.

"A well educated electorate being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed." That statement could not be construed as applying the right to keep and read books only to those registered to vote. Rather, the right to keep and read books is a necessary precondition for the statement in the dependent clause.

Read Federalist #46 and run the numbers against the population at the time.

If you have time, check out Barnett R.E. and Kates D.B., Under Fire: The New Consensus on the Second Amendment (45 Emory L.J. 1139-1259) (1996).

BTW, under Federal law, I am a member of the national militia. Where's my M16? :D

[slackmaster]

30. The people are the militia

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/search/display.html?terms=militia&url=/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000311----000-.html

[RethugAssKicker]

7. a Hitler book ?.... Why are the psychopaths always

RW racists???

[malaise]

11. Hitler's second book

This kid had lots of help. Now hearing that they didn't find any ammo just guns - grenade canisters, etc. etc.

[theHandpuppet]

16. So all those clips I saw were empty?

Okay, perhaps someone can explain to me why someone would have a bedroom full of guns and no bullets.

[malaise]

17. I wondered the same n/t

[benEzra]

24. Those were TOY guns. Airsofts.

Plastic replicas that fire little plastic pellets, that don't even hurt (unless you got one in your eye, I guess). Toys.

He reportedly had ONE gun, a cheap 9mm (pistol caliber) Hi-Point carbine with a small magazine capacity (only 10 rounds). Apparently he didn't have any ammunition for it, unless the police haven't found it yet.

This kid apparently was a threat, if news reports are correct, and it is good that people took his threats seriously, but he did NOT have a roomful of real guns, just toy replicas. I'm not sure why the police laid the guns out as if they were real, unless it was just to get a rise out of the gun-404 media.

[slackmaster]

31. At least his mom had the sense not to buy him any ammo for his rifle

Minimum age to buy 9 mm ammo is 21.

[PRETZEL]

44. now I'm not so sure he didn't have the ammo

it just wasn't at the house. From what was mentioned in the MSNBC report there were other weapons at a friends house. Are we sure the ammo wasn't there?

[slackmaster]

48. It wouldn't surprise me

The woman is obviously living in a fantasy world of denial.

[atreides1]

9. Did the NRA give him his toys

What about mom and dad, they are after all legally responsible for their son, right?

Maybe it was the NRA-Hitler advisor/babysitter who gave the kid the idea? The NRA constantly sends out e-mails with plans on how to conduct a do-it-yourself Columbine massacre!

Now, while the NRA does promote gun ownership, I don't recall scythes or knives listed, granted I've only been a member for two years so maybe I don't have access to the "knives are as good as guns" page!

The NRA is bad, all Germans are Nazis, and all white southerners are members of the KKK!!!!!!

[AuntPatsy]

10. You'd be suprised I guess how easy it is to attain illegal weapons

[theHandpuppet]

13. Did the parents of this kid even know him?

Hate books, bomb-making manuals, an arsenal that included grenades, rifles, pistols, thousands of rounds of ammo, etc... even if he bought all this stuff on the black market how does a 14 year old get the money to buy enough guns to wipe out a small town? Excuse me, but how could these parents not notice something was very wrong here??? :wtf:

[malaise]

15. The mother bought the 9MM for him at a gun show

Damn

[theHandpuppet]

19. Just what every 14 year old needs...

As I recall I believe I got a telescope at that age, but unless one can make a grenade launcher from it, where's the fun? :sarcasm:

[Hangingon]

25. What is the difference between buying at a gun show and

a sporting goods store?

[slackmaster]

28. Thousands of plastic BBs, ZERO rounds of firearm ammunition

Maybe he had a newspaper route.

[benEzra]

20. He had *ONE* gun...a pistol-caliber carbine with a small-capacity magazine.

The ONE gun he owned was a cheap Hi-Point 9mm (pistol caliber) carbine, capacity 10 rounds.

He also had around 30 TOY guns (Airsoft-style plastic replicas of AK's and pistols, that shoot little plastic pellets), a couple of toy or reproduction swords (can't tell which from the photos), and reportedly had made a couple of crude grenades.

So he had one small-caliber rifle and a couple of homemade grenades. Definitely enough to worry about (and I'm darn glad the people who heard his threats took them seriously!), but hardly a "weapons haul."

[spanone]

23. i agree with fuck the NRA. nbc said MOST of the guns were bb guns.

[Hangingon]

27. What does the NRA have to do with this?

Are they into air soft guns? Last I heard they were for strict enforcement of the gun laws on the books. This case has several violations - Fox just ran a list of the charges against the mother. She violated the law by allowing a 14 year old to have a firearm.

[benEzra]

43. Not even BB guns. Toys.

Airsofts aren't even BB guns. A BB gun fires .177 caliber metal pellets (lead or steel), that can kill small animals (frogs, mice, birds), or penetrate the skin of a human. An Airsoft gun fires small plastic pellets that wouldn't even hurt a bird, unless you hit it in the eye or something, and are often used as a cheaper and less messy alternative to paintball (the only safety gear you need are a pair of sunglasses).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BB_gun

BB guns should be handled with extreme caution and should never be fired at other humans. Simple, cheap BB guns that one can purchase at Wal-Mart have the capacity to fire over 1000 fps. BB guns are not to be confused with airsoft guns, which are not very harmful to humans. Any lead .177 pellet fired at or above 600 fps most certainly has skin piercing abilities and possibility of fatality if fired improperly. Steel BBs are also very prone to ricochet, especially off of hard surfaces such as brick or concrete. Eye protection is not essential when shooting BBs (but is a safety precaution that is recommended), more so than when shooting lead pellets, since a bouncing BB retains a very large portion of its initial energy, and could easily cause serious eye damage up to and including blindness.

[slackmaster]

26. ONE actual firearm with no ammunition, a bunch of Airsoft guns and assorted toys

:eyes:

Possibly some illegal hand grenades. Those would be extremely illegal, if it turns out they were real.

[PRETZEL]

32. I posted in another thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2022729#2028817

This situation is real close to me and more importantly my daughter.

[slackmaster]

33. Pretty scary

The police are to be commended for catching him before he did anything.

[PRETZEL]

34. Not only that but the young man

that this kid tried to enlist to help has to commended for realizing to take him seriously and to alert the police.

[benEzra]

46. Definitely. Kudos to him,

and I hope the outcome of this is to get other kids like that to speak out.

[aikoaiko]

35. Malaise -- what do you think of how you were manipulated by press conference?

Sure, it looks scary at first glance, but now we know what was actually shown.

:shrug:

[malaise]

36. Still scary

but clearly the plan wasn't for today.

[aikoaiko]

38. Sure, I agree

I fully support the police intervention, but displaying toy guns as if they were a real danger to people was meant to manipulate you into thinking this kids had many guns.

Is a kid with some homemade bombs and one gun bought by his mother who talks about a columbine type of attack scary? yes, but the police made you think his access to guns was much worse than it was.

[malaise]

64. You're right n/t

[PRETZEL]

37. mother charged

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21253029

[slackmaster]

41. Thanks - Now a .22 rifle and a .22 handgun have been added to the mix

Based on the Brady Campaign's assessment of PA gun laws, it appears she may indeed be in hot water for giving the weapons to her son and allowing him to possess them unsupervised.

JUVENILE POSSESSION
Are minors restricted from possessing guns? Yes

State law restricts juveniles under 18 from possessing any firearm without parental permission or authorized supervision.


JUVENILE SALE
Is it illegal to sell guns to kids? Yes

State law restricts selling or giving firearms to juveniles under 18, except for supervised loans of firearms or for limited lawful activities (such as hunting).

Source: http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.php?st=pa#juvposs

I hope they throw the book at her.

[piedmont]

54. I see a big ol' loophole.

"State law restricts juveniles under 18 from possessing any firearm without parental permission or authorized supervision."

I'm guessing she gave him permission to possess that 9 mm.

[slackmaster]

63. The Parental Permission Loophole!

Congress must DO SOMETHING!!!

[piedmont]

66. Simple! Ban all parental permission!

Hello, "mother Big Brother-may-I?"

[CRF450]

67. The problem their is that

Most parents who give their kids a gun have good supervision, and then keep the ammo or gun locked away when not in use. A ban like that is never going to happen and it shouldn't.

[piedmont]

68. Huh. I didn't think I needed a sarcasm tag.

I guess I did, though.

[renie408]

40. In this case, Fuck his parents.

I am pretty damned anti-gun, but this isn't the NRA's fault. This is his parent's (and all the adults around him) fault.

[slackmaster]

42. I'm pretty damn pro-gun and I completely agree with you

The kid obviously has psycholical problems, and all his mom has done is enable him to stay messed up. (Not to mention creating a real threat to public safety.)

She broke multiple laws. The NRA has nothing to do with it.

[pokerfan]

65. I'm pro gun as well and I'm thankful law enforcement got involved

though I'm not so impressed with them displaying the arsenal of air-soft weapons as if they were actual firearms. I caught a glimpse of that on the evening news last night and I was like WTF? Today the truth comes out.

Manufacturing an explosive device is extremely illegal and imo the most disturbing act here, and the authorities are going to come down hard on that point.

Buying three firearms for a minor, two handguns and the carbine (long gun chambered in a pistol round) is also very serious and allowing him free access to them is just plain irresponsible.

I'm not a fan of conflating toy guns with real guns. Firearms are never toys and I suspect that this kid saw little difference between his airsoft toys and his .22s and 9mm.

My dad "bought" me a .270 hunting rifle for my 14th birthday some thirty-some years ago. I was not allowed to use it without supervision and I had to take a firearm safety class to get my hunting license. Hunting was just another way to put meat in the freezer.

My dad had a couple of pistols that he kept locked up in a safe. We didn't have a safe for the long guns ("my" .270, his 30-06, and a couple of shotguns) but I knew never to touch them unless he was present. Besides, he kept all the ammunition in the safe.

I suspect that the respect for firearms was somewhat different in my house vs. this kid's.

I hope the kid gets whatever psychological help he needs.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

47. YES!

I'm amazed at this!

And the mother bought some of that. Yikes!

[slackmaster]

49. It's pretty bad but please take it with a grain of salt

The media is sensationalizing it quite a bit.

[napi21]

51. You've fallen for the new hype!!!! ALL BUT ONE of what you saw

were BB Guns! The ONE semi auto he had was bought for him by his mother!

I thought it was quite interesting that the police laid them out in the most dramatic display possible!!!

I am certainly NOT condoning or forgiving this boy for wanting to "do a Columbine" on his school! With that in mind, I don't think his mother should have bought him a semi automatic either! HOWEVER, the picture is portraying this boy in a much worse light that is real.

[renie408]

52. It still shows a fascination with weapons.

Even though they were not 'real'. And I don't think it shows the boy in a bad light. I think it shows his family and anybody that knew him at all well in a bad light. The principal that ignored warnings from students is right there with the rest of them.

This was a fourteen year old fucked up kid. I feel as bad for him as I do for the people he killed.

[napi21]

55. Facination with guns/weapons is not in itself an indicator of

emotional disturbance OR a bad family. My husband was the same way from an even younger age than 14, and his dad bought him his first rifle for his 15th b-day. He's now 65, and STILL facinated with weapons, but he's never harmed anyone...other than a deer each year, and some small game...which we used to save a lot of money on groceries.

Something else is going on with children who aren't only facinated with guns, but with revenge and what seems to be to be a strong belief that everyone is picking on them.

[H2O Man]

58. The weapons

are not the disturbing thing. It's the kid's mindset -- and he reportedly had a fairly unhealthy interest in violence -- as well as the sad lack of an intelligent parent with a capacity for insight. The kid reportedly was at very least fantasizing about violence in a school setting, and had said things that appear to have been an attempt to recruit another kid. In that context, even the single 9mm weapon and the homemade explosives is a serious problem, that could have reached a tragic outcome.

[benEzra]

62. This kid didn't kill anybody, thankfully.

He supposedly tried to recruit a friend for some sort of "imitation Columbine" thing, and the friend went to police. You may be confusing him with the kid in Cleveland, or the police officer who shot up the party recently?

[WinkyDink]

57. Better this story than one about a NOBEL PEACE Prize.

[MilesColtrane]

61. At what point do you, as a parent, begin to suspect something's wrong with...

...your son's state of mind?

After he's purchased his 15th toy gun...20th...25th?

You would think someone who home schooled their kid would have a close enough relation with him to detect an unhealthy mindset.