On our Authoritarian government and American Exceptionalism

[nadinbrzezinski]

So every time any of us posts about how close we are to a totalitarian state we have the usual suspects jump, and get their panties in a wad. Why? How dare we even suggest this?

What is going on? Well, people's mind's immediately go to the best known example in modern history (Nazi Germany)... and we have been trained from early on to think that the Nazis were that exceptional and out of the historic norm because of the holocaust.

So lets clear the table shall we?

I could very easily compare current events to Kirchner's Guatemala of the 1950s... look on the bright side, there is no recognized genocide committed there. (Having talked to some Maya Indians, from the Quiche region, they may take exception to this statement and rightly so... but you get the point)

So what did it have in common with every other authoritarian government in the 20th century?

Lets check, shall we?

A thuggish class... the Guatemala Army, especially some of its special forces elements, were all but nice and cuddly. Hell, they were quite nasty and remember those Maya I mentioned above? They'd be able to regale you with some stories that will make you return your cookies. Oh, they involve all the classics, from rape and murder to land taking and attacks of religious believes... and throw people into prison, no due process, torture... you know the drill.

Secret jails and dark prisons: Yep, present.. and many a Maya ended up there

A controlled press: Absolutely, and being a reporter in Guatemala could mean taking your life in your hands, especially if you wanted to be critical. Hell, most folks knew they could publish what they wanted, legally that is, but the nod and wink meant they knew better. Hell the right to speak freely WAS in the Constitution.

A legal system that was compromised: Absolutely, and that legal system did what the President told them

Rule by Fiat: The whole mess started with fiat... and continued that way.

Internal and external enemies: For Kirchner it was them damn Ruskies... I mean there were Communists under every bush... just ask those working for him.

Internal surveillance system: Check... and yes they had their intelligence people listening to calls and all that. Now for the most part they relied on the fact that people knew that you were not supposed to look over your shoulder.

Harass citizens groups: Yep, any person protesting this was observed and citizen groups were broken down and up.

Arbitrary detention and release: Absolutely, especially in the country side among the Maya, but also among the intellectual class.

Target Key Individuals: Civil Rights lawyers and civil rights workers, including one who was recognized for her life's work by the Noble committee

And of course anybody dissenting in any form, was talked off as a traitor.

Now... I could do the same exercise with other authoritarian states such as Russia, Pinochet's Chile, Franco's Spain, and so on... and what is going on in this country RIGHT NOW.

Now why do we call this fascism? Mussolini defined it best... This is the mixing of corporate and state interests... that is why this particular form is fascism.

Here is another critical note...

Yes... you can discuss this still, and in fact most of these totalitarian states left most of the middle classes alone, and even allowed them to talk ammongst themselves. The security forces had records... and in some cases citizens spied on each other (the Staszy in East Germany), but for the most part unless you are making way too much noise, they need you to keep an illusion that you are free.

Was Nazi Germany extreme? Yes... if you look at the holocaust... but genocide is not necessarily the end result of these totalitarian systems... It can be... as Germany, Cambodia, Turkey, The Balkans and Rwanda have proven. But, camps are not a necessary the end for most of the population. Nor is genocide the necessary end result

I have argued in a post offering a readying list that there is a method to close down a society. My readying list included offerings from the best known example (as far as Americans are concerned) and of course it had the usual knee jerk reaction from the usual suspects.

But if you expect American Totalitarianism to take the exact same forms as German Fascism... then you are purposely ignoring the lessons of history. After all, that extreme of death camps was also reached by the USSR, which was NOT Fascist, but nevertheless was totalitarian... but Italy and Spain did not... and neither did Chile, Argentina and even Guatemala. (even if I will argue that there was genocide committed against the Maya, but there were NO camps)

Should we all stop discussing this because oh my we dishonor the victims of the holocaust by thinking that Germany is unfortunately more the norm than we want to believe? Absolutely not. If anything, putting our head in the damn sand as the country is closed down into our own form of Authoritarian government is refusing to learn the lessons and the echoes of history...

And yes, I do expect the usual suspects to come and tell us how this is ahistorical, incorrect and damn it, I can still post this without fearing a knock from DHS agents at my door, so drop the bong... we are still free and damn it it truly could not happen here. (That is American exceptionalism talking, and yes it can and it is happening here)

[Arkham House]

1. Hear, hear...

...we've forgotten history. Our "exceptionalism" has made us think that maybe we've escaped history--but the Founders wouldn't have been fooled by this, they knew the Republic was an experiemnt, and that it could fail. It's come so close, so often, to failing... There are no certainties, for us or anyone else. And to suggest that the Republic could fail, is *not* the same thing as comparing Bush to Hitler, a good point that seems obvious, but is apparently beyond some folks... I'm frightened. I think there's a 50/50 chance that we will live to see the Republic fail...but I'm going to fight for it all the way...

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. I fear the Republic already failed (in the same way Rome failed)

We are now an empire and why we live in a society that is closing down

by the way, you are fan of HP Lovecraft? Side point but what can I say?

[annabanana]

3. The shell of the Republic remains. It "looks" much the same as

it did 50 years ago... but it is hollowed out. All kinds of infrastructure is compromised (not just the physical plant).

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. That's why I am refering to Rome on this

:-)

It was a shell, once it became an Empire. The Senate still met... if you catch my drift

[Arkham House]

4. I don't think it's failed beyond redemption yet...not quite...

..but it's close. We're like the late Republic--which had constant crises and dictators, and a huge empire, but was still at least "called" a republic... The Rubicon hasn't been crossed--not quite, though the Coup of 2000 was very close... Yes, I'm a Lovecraft fan, very much so. But, technically, "Arkham House" is named after a specialty SF/Fantasy publisher of the 1950s, a number of whose books I have...

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Unfortunately I see the Patriot Act as that crossing of the Rubicon

cemented in our leaders in the house and senate not forcing their authority to declare war because they fear that perception of being weak

[AntiFascist]

6. The founders never warned of fascism, but they issued plenty of warnings...

against tyranny. Both lead to dictatorship, or the oligarchical rule of many for the benefit of the few. What is done in the name of national security is really a global power grab that not only fuels the threats to our security, but could permanently affect any future form of true democracy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. That is why that readying list included the founders

why? The fight for liberty and against tyranny is a constant

We may change terms we use to refer to some of this... but hell's bells King George the First and the way he ran the colonies had plenty of elements of an authoritarian state...

So it wasn't as efficient as modern tools allow it to be, but the system was there

But you are right, they spoke of Tyranny. I have the feeling though that if they were alive right now, they'd be in the trenches fighting this new tyranny though.

[GuvWurld]

9. This is exactly what Naomi Wolf's new book is about, The End of America

Absolutely the lessons of history show parallels among all dictatorships and watching our society over the past seven years totally looks like "the formula" these patterns reveal.

I recommend Naomi Wolf's new book, The End of America. It is a rather slim 160 pages but overflowing with footnoted references. Lots of connections I hadn't heard about. One comes to mind. Right after 9/11, before invading Afghanistan, Cheney spoke of the country being on a "war footing," a term used by the Nazis. It is insane how many examples there are like this, particularly around fear framing. We have surrendered our country to the most unimaginative dictator ever.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. I know but the other day I was pounded by the usual

suspects

How dare I even compare Guatnamo to Dachau?

She did, and I did compare similar cmaps to Dachau (twenty years ago in a graduate seminar) at the time they were in the balkans. HEll, we even had a conference on Genocide, and found out how often genodide occurs.

But you should have seen the hew and cries

By the way, I am readying her book and not only enjoying it, but getting shivers

Damn it is not only me noticing... and now it IS in print

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. And on that threat, for clarity sake, I compared the two camps

In the following way

They both have been the subject of criticism by civil rights lawyers

They both share elements outside the law

They both have been visited by the ICRC (And the ICRC has released records from Guantamo)

they both imply extraordinary extra legal requirements

They both have military commissions

They both released prisoners

But apparently I failed to recognize the house of Horrors that Dachau was, since I did not mention the number of prisoners who died from starvation in its lifetime, or other horrors that were particular to Dachau

That is a great error on my part

Never mind the echoes of Dachau insofar as the closing of a society are there to be seen, but you need to dig into the method... and not think of Dachau in 1945, but Dachau in '36, or '37

[Hydra]

10. I'm surprised no one came in here to thump about how disrespectful you're being

But as you know, I agree with you. People shout "Never again!" at the top of their lungs while they ignore it happening here. I think that is MORE disrespectful to the dead- dancing across their graves, so to speak.

Just yesterday, Madame Pelosi had these pearls of wisdom for us:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/09/AR2007100902006.html

But her spirits soured instantly when somebody asked about the anger of the Democratic "base" over her failure to end the war in Iraq.

"Look," she said, the chicken breast on her plate untouched. "I had, for five months, people sitting outside my home, going into my garden in San Francisco, angering neighbors, hanging their clothes from trees, building all kinds of things -- Buddhas? I don't know what they were -- couches, sofas, chairs, permanent living facilities on my front sidewalk."

Unsmilingly, she continued: "If they were poor and they were sleeping on my sidewalk, they would be arrested for loitering, but because they have 'Impeach Bush' across their chest, it's the First Amendment."

<snip>

"We have to make responsible decisions in the Congress that are not driven by the dissatisfaction of anybody who wants the war to end tomorrow," Pelosi told the gathering at the Sofitel, arranged by the Christian Science Monitor. Though crediting activists for their "passion," Pelosi called it "a waste of time" for them to target Democrats. "They are advocates," she said. "We are leaders."

Apparently, she has problems with the first amendment and the concept of democracy- by and for the people, and all that.

The fact that this is Pelosi telling us to shut up, sit down and do as we're told is disturbing. This is something I'd more expect from George or Dick.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Madame Pelosi is playing the same stupid game

many legislators across the 20th century played with thugs

You don't negotiate with thugs... yet she's trying

That is the problem with her, fundamentally

And as to the victims...

I expect the usual suspects to show up sooner or later... they will... because this challenges their fundamental way of looking at the world and the it can't happen here mentality, driven by fear

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. kick

[kineneb]

15. you are, of course, correct

the course of fascism in country A would be different than in country B. It not the particular form fascism takes but the similar means/pattern to get there.

I also have lived under a (near) police state, the Iran of the Shah, circa 1970. As long as no one protested his rule, they were mostly left alone. Challenge any misdeeds in the open, and SAVAK would come visit. It was simply understood that one did not criticize the Shah or his rule.

Chalmers Johnson had a good comparison of the different paths of the Roman and the British Empire in their final days (in Nemesis). You may want to add the Blowback series to your fine reading list. I found the series quite "informative", and also depressing... to find out so much of what has been done in our name and the cause of "freedom & democracy".

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. For me it was the Mexico of the 1970s

I still remember my dad warning us to "watch what we said on the phone."

But I used Guatemala since Guatemala covered all bases... and I should have added the Iran of the Shah, Sadamn's Iraq, Syria... hell, the british empire, several times over...

And I will get to that series in time

;-)

And these days... I wonder how long until I too go to the habits I still remember from growing up...

Not talking to strangers

Watching what I said on the phone

Trying to see if anybody overheard anything...

And damn it I was a kid... and I still remember that

Or the conversatiosn at home when the currencny controls came down about having to go to dark places to change dollars for pesos...

Of course the tourists never knew of this... ever

In fact, it was those years why my dad applied for a green card...

Ironic, isn't it?

[kineneb]

17. deeply ironic

sort of frying pan into fire.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Well it wasn't back then

you can't predict those things thirty years in the past

:-(

[kineneb]

19. true, my parents had to leave after the Revolution

my step-father- because he had worked in government under the Shah's regime, he had been a mayor of a town there...
my mom- because she is blond and very western (a California girl, actually)

Now, America once again hates people from the Middle East, and is becoming more like the Islamic Republic of Iran every day, theocracy and all. Sigh.

One of the great ironies of family history... they leave an Islamic theocracy, and they come back to a developing Christian theocracy. Step-father is still Islamic, but I don't ask his views on much, he voted for King George last time. There is a reason I live 2.5 hours from the parental units.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. You know it is ironic

my dad, he went though the holocaust (I guess I took the never forget to mean all of humanity)

He saw the dangers back in Mexico, and decided to get his two youngest kids out... he still lives in Mexico

And these days he watches FOX when they visit

His reason actually makes sense in a sick sense, it is easy to understand... but until very recently he didn't see the danger of George Bush

And these days he worries that I have already opened my mouth a tad too many times... he worries for my safety

But then I look at my nephews... and realize... if this gets really, really uggly, and it goes down the road of genocide, well this time it will be arabs, jews soon after and those of other brown heritage as it were

As is, the patterns are scary as hell

But I will not stop fighting, even though I understand the cost if I am the loosing side. Why? Humans who have died due to genocides across the world and history beg of us to stop it, or at least fight it.


Hell, the other day, outside one local store, a group of Arab males were talking.. I knew they were arabs since they were talking arabic ever so softly. A gentleman started calling them names and demanding that they go home. I screamed back at him, and confronted the bully. He was right, if he wanted to have people go home, perhaps he should pack his bags and lead by example. He was shocked that somebody confronted him, especially a five foot slightly overweight woman with an accent. I hope his son learns the lesson in that one... By the way, he rushed into the store... and did not want to confront me. Bullies usually react that way. The irony did not escape me.. what this man was doing was not different from what grown men did to my father when he was growing up in the shtetl in Poland... you may say the circle of history closed. I am also aware that we still have time... as little as we do... but we will only reverse this if we confront his behavior everywhere and let people know, this is not acceptable... in no uncertain terms. If we don't, it will get ugly.

[Jim Sagle]

21. As for the scoffers, this poster portrays them as well as anything I've read:

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. I have not seen that one in a while

good that he's still around

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Given this is now a topic du jour again

here is a shameless kick