I thank you for your vote of confidence in judging my

[Joe for Clark]

ability to call a military situation a certain way.

I better be f-ing wrong here. Cause it is a lot worse then may be apparent.

Could be, appears to be.

But I DO believe in the United States - that somehow - in the end - we pull out of an apparent shithole.

You know the difference? - A thousand years ago - the world didn't have weapons that could obliterate countries in 45 minutes. We better get this one right - or god judges us in the end.

He is not the United States - WE ARE!!! Remember that.

Joe

[mmonk]

1. With you Joe.

[Mnemosyne]

2. We are Joe. Thank you. n/t

[knowbody0]

3. loads of love and respect, Joe.

[MadMaddie]

4. There you are! Joe....you are right We the American citizens

are the United States!

[TomInTib]

5. Hey, Joe.

good to see you around.

Now don't go getting all clairvoyant on us, man.

Hope all is well with you and yours.

I actually miss those hard conversations we had.

Is Troy back in Theater or is he Home?

Tom

[Joe for Clark]

8. He is out of it now -

Lived and every thing. Trying to figure out if he is really ok.

I am no clairvoyant - but I am a fair student of military history.

I don't know - I kind of understand war Tom - a strange curiosity I had growing up.

And I am not my parents generation and I didn't go when it called my brothers or my kids - but I do understand it. Kind of strange thinking about it now.

I thought I could teach war to scare the hell out of kids contemplating it -

I don't know now. It is too bizzare to really understand. How can anybody really know what it feels like to be shot at unless you are shot at.

Joe

[TomInTib]

13. You are doing the right thing, Buddy.

Keep your lamp trimmed and burnin'.

Tom

[Joe for Clark]

18. You know Tom - what bothers me - I was not at the ends of that

valley - at Que of Kha - Maybe it would be easier now to me if I was.

But I wasn't.

I do know - in the end - I am thankful Dad ended up at Buchenwald - I am. It gave him a good rationalization for all the people he had to kill then. Hew killed a lot. He still had the nightmares - but at least he didn't blow his brains out.

You guys need to speak out Tom. We know what you guys had to do. Don't leave it to intermediaries like me - you guys speak of war - I never got shot at - I only knows what that feels like from others.

And they are dieing.

War is war Tom - all war. You guys that did Nam - your turn to talk.

DO it.

Joe

[Joe for Clark]

22. Been to too many grads that too many kids ended up dieing -

Sometimes you take a stand -

I like those kids Tom - and I know they are stupid -

And they may never know us - but I will scream and twist and wiggle all the way down.

Cause I like those dumb kids. I will fight for them - they don't have to know me.

It wouldn't mater to me anyway.

To you either.

You were one of them once.

Joe

[Joe for Clark]

6. I am catholic - and hoping the nazi pope passes quickly

into history - I'll just say, that man was just a target in my families gunsights way back when -

Ignoring that - some of my family - priests and all that - I think were good christian will say-

This president needs to be ex-communicated from christianity.

I really think a lot of the Quakers sometimes - and I have a guy - A Quaker minister -and he says - only the pope can really ex-communicate anybody (not too fond of the pope and all that) and I looked at him and say, oh no - there is so little difference in all christian faiths - that that is bullshit. He is not christian - christ should shit on him - He shits on Matthew, and calls himself christian??? I don't think so.

I know many agnostics, athiests that are better "christians". He agreed.

I have no problem with any faith - or lack of faith - it shows thought. It is how you act towards your fellow humans that really counts anyway.

But this guy a christian?? No way. Makes me sick.

Christians think that the least of my brother (Matthew 25) - all that - this guy can go to hell. He doesn't think that way at all.

And I am sure he will end up in hell.

Joe

[DemoTex]

10. Acts 9:5 : It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

The Virgins are all trimming their wicks,
It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

http://www.hit-country-music-lyrics.com/johnnycashlyrics-mancomesaround.html

[Joe for Clark]

12. I don't know - it is funny - but not -

IF you really are christian - then you better be able to defend your acts in accordance with the gospels - at least that.

I freely admit - if I could cut CCD to go with my girlfriend then, I did.

Now - I don't know. I think a lot more of my "more christian family" then I did then.

SO what do I know.

Joe

[DemoTex]

16. Things change .. I know what you mean, I think.

As far as defending ones' acts vis-a-vis the Gospels: I defer to Shakespeare (and Luke). Both say, basically, that the devil cites scripture for his own purpose.

[Joe for Clark]

19. What ever you do to the least of my brother, that that you do

unto me.


That makes you a real christian - the day you believe that.

That is Matthew 25 - Try and call yourself a christian and not live that - and I will call you a heretic - even me.

Joe

[DemoTex]

21. Joe, I'm starting to think you are the most genuine thing on DU.

mac

[Joe for Clark]

23. I don't know - I never said anything I didn't mean -

I got deleted sometimes - particularly when I talked about Japan in the 40s - meant every goddam word too - I don't have bad feelings about Germany now - and they killed some of my family!!!

I knew those guys - and I trust them with my life that came back alive from Guadalcanal and Saipan and Okinawa - my damn family. SO if I say Jsps, they were worse then lowlife - I don't think so, I know.

But I also know - we did what those lowlifes did - on Tinian and the islands up the Philippians -AMERICANS, for god's sake - not us - not us. How did they let that happen???? This was not a battlefield hot of the moment thing - they did this on purpose - god damn them to hell.

Those kids - DO NOT belong there - not our kids. Not now. This is crap.

Joe

[TomInTib]

25. I am pretty much sure he is.

Joe is pretty plain-spoken, but he is a true student of (recent) military history.

Joe hasn't been there, but he sure knows how it is.

[DemoTex]

20. BTW: Simple music. C-Major. Great heavy left hand piano (C-MAJ)

One of Cash's best.

[Lucinda]

11. Well some prophecy people would like it

Pope and a half from prophecy fullfillment with Petrus Romanus

I know next to nothing about Ratzinger

[Joe for Clark]

17. Jesus - you got it - you know almost no one does??

You read that stuff??

I am impressed, really am.

Guessing I don't count, at all, My grand uncle is a saint in the church - here is what I say - screw everybody - America lives on - we are the paradigm. We saved the world and we get bonus points.

Two times in two centuries we saved a people, to liberate and not conquer.

My god - we are so different. And seven or eight years means nothing in our history.

We are America. And everybody else can go straight to hell.

Impressed.

Joe

[Lucinda]

26. Yup. I read that stuff.

Been waiting for something my whole life. Started looking around the connect the dots.
Still trying to find my way though it all.

And yep. We are much more than what our bad custodian has done. I'm gonna remember that. Bad Custodian.

[Canuckistanian]

7. You're alright, Joe

<punches Joe in shoulder>

[Joe for Clark]

9. No I am not -

Been to too god damn many basic grads - no I am not.

I am afraid I know just how fucked those kids really are - and I want to be wrong.

[bonito]

14. Hey Joe

Just dropping in.:hi:

[EFerrari]

15. That's right, Joe. We are.

K&R

[Joe for Clark]

24. You know - I really do like you guys.

I don't know if I show it -but I do. You ARE Americans. God I am proud of you.

Your forefathers would be so proud of you too.

Joe