Barney Frank: Bad or the worst?

[Stinky The Clown]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2007/10/12/MNKESOESB.DTL&type=printable

My thread title is intentionally hyperbolic.

[catnhatnh]

1. Jeepers, Stinky....

He's only WRONG...

[JackBeck]

2. Who crowned Barney Frank king of gay rights in Congress?

Tammy Baldwin is all for inclusion. I look forward to her coronation.

[cboy4]

3. I agree with Matt Foreman:

"No civil rights movement has left part of its community behind as it moved forward, and we're not about to be the first one to do so," Foreman said.

Even though I disagree with Barney, I still respect him.

[TreasonousBastard]

4. Barney Frank is the worst, pond scum...

and more.

How dare he argue against the deep knowledge and wisdom of the Scions of the Internet who, even though most haven't been within 500 miles of the Capitol in their lives, know best how to run Congress?

How dare he defy the wishes of the hundreds, perhaps even a thousand or so, around the nation crying for the immediate impeachment of the President-like-object at all costs, even putting aside actual legislation and work that they erroneously claim to be a bit more important?

Oh, yeah, and that gay stuff, too. What the hell does he know about being gay?

Beware, Frank-- you are now the enemy of the Mighty Leftwing Bloggers, and you will pay the price!

(If that doesn't scare him, I don't know what will)

[JackBeck]

6. How dare we voice our dissenting opinion.

Let's be like good Republicans and mimic party talking points.

[TreasonousBastard]

8. There's dissenting opinion and...

then there's dissenting horseshit.

Or is is horseshit opinion?

"Fuck you, you're wrong" is certainly an opinion, but not one anyone really needs to hear.

[JackBeck]

9. Care to define the parameters of your so called "horseshit"?

[TreasonousBastard]

10. I thought I just did.

[JackBeck]

14. Where?

[BootinUp]

17. If you want a serious plan for impeachment

go build up support for it around the country. But you already know this, you just enjoy pounding on elected Democrats even though its pointless.

[JackBeck]

18. Funny how I thought this was more about ENDA, since that's what has been more in the news recently.

OP left it open for many interpretations.

[BootinUp]

20. Maybe you are right

in which case I should extract my foot from my mouth. Perhaps the OP will clarify.

[cboy4]

7. One thing that is clear is you know absolutely zero

about civil rights.

In fact you may know less than zero.

Right TreasonousBastard?

[TreasonousBastard]

11. Didn't I meet you in jail in 1967? Remember that march?

[cboy4]

12. No TreasonousBastard, the only march you know is the

one that comes after February.

[TreasonousBastard]

16. Good one! Now, long before I get to the point of telling you to...

kiss my ass then eat shit and die, I'll just say that I'm not about to compare my credentials with anyone-- sometimes they're better sometimes they're not.

What I will also say is that "civil rights" is one thing, and politics is another. Sometimes they actually intersect but this is one of those times when they are at odds with each other. The art of politics is the art of the possible, and knowing just what that is.

Losing a battle is nothing to be ashamed of or even to worry about. It happens, and should make you fight harder in the next one.

[JackBeck]

19. And yet you continue to be obtuse.

Whose "civil rights" intersects with which politics?

[cboy4]

31. Sorry. Civil rights trumps politics. Agreeing to

dissect aspects of basic civil rights in the name of politics, is the day you concede that basic civil rights are open to negotiation.

And they are not.

[Swamp Rat]

5. Barney Frank is wrong here, but I still respect him.

"Nancy Pelosi is not Glenda the good witch," Frank said. "She can't wave her magic wand and make people from all over this country vote however she wants them to vote." - Straw Man, Barney.

Nancy DOES have the power to start the impeachment process. If Nancy and the rest of the Dem controlled Congress did what we asked them to do 10 months ago, many of our troops would already by home by now.

I do not buy this theory that Congress is so monolithic that it takes years to accomplish the tasks we mandate. I think it is a cop-out, a very poor excuse to hide their fear of losing power for whatever reason.

[orleans]

13. tsk, tsk, tsk...barney, barney, barney...

WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF REMARK IS THIS???

"The question is: Can we govern responsibly? And governing responsibly means working with everybody, listening to and exchanging views with the people who care passionately ... but then as you go forward with the goals, taking reality into account,"

so...barney believes that those of us who "care passionately" are NOT "taking reality into account"??

EXCUSE ME!

regardless of the topic--iraq, transgender issues, etc etc. i think it's rather condescending of him.

"What troubles me is this notion, and not just on this issue, it's people on the left who are insisting on impeachment, it's on people who say why haven't you stopped the war," Frank said.

yes well, maybe we just "care passionately"

[renie408]

24. The point is, that in REALITY, that bill wasn't going to pass with transgender

peoplen included. SO, it was send the bill like it was and watch it sink out of sight, or drop transgender people off. And when the people who 'care passionately' can't see that keeping that in there means losing the bill, he thinks they aren't taking reality into account.

[Semper_FiFi]

15. I still respect him.

I don't think the issue is simple. I realize that trans-gendered people will feel differently, but civil rights issues move slowly in this country. I believe his heart is in the right place.

[MidwestTransplant]

21. what'd he do? hook up with Craig?

[Forkboy]

22. Barney is still the best.

I'd take a hundred more just like him any day.

[cali]

23. me too. I'm a long time admirerer. n/t

[Forkboy]

28. In his last campaign he ended his ads with...

"This message approved by Barney Frank.Who else would?"

:rofl:

It'll take a lot more than this to make me not like the guy.

[cali]

29. That's just a riot.

Not too many things make me laugh in the morning.

[CTyankee]

30. The "inconvenient" truth is that there is not a hundred more just like him and THAT

is the problem here, or at least the way Barney sees it. If I read him right, he is viewing this as a "win something vs. lose it all" kind of struggle. And since there are NOT more votes on our side we are better off doing something. It is an age old quandary.

I don't pretend to know the answer, as many here seem to do. When I try to look to history for examples of incrementalism vs. bold moves I see a mix of both in how we get things done. A good example is health care: presidents going back to FDR (excepting Reagan and Bushes) have wanted some form of universal health care in this country. LBJ built on his then popularity and a Dem Congressional majority to ram thru Medicare and Medicaid. We are not in that glorious position today, so what do we do?

This is at the basis of most every fight I've seen here at DU on substantive issues.

[mitchum]

25. In my perfect world Frank would be the presidential candidate...

a man of great wisdom and wit

[mmonk]

26. I still respect him but have to disagee with him.

Country and constitution and the people come first.

[sendero]

27. I agree with part of what he says......

... but definitely not all of it. Particularly his assertion that the Dem's problem is the votes. Republicans will FORCE A VOTE when they think that they are right but might not win.

This leadership only places a bet when they have four Aces. That's not very impressive and it won't win the game.