Florida county chair won't let candidate into county fundraiser...tells him not to run again.

[madfloridian]

If that chairperson tells a former candidate "What!?, are you going to run again?!. You can't. You've had your chance, and you have to give someone else a chance"!....is it legal?

Since I found out about this, I have been trying to figure out how to post it carefully and fairly. I have pretty good sources on this, and it is very upsetting. I am leaving off the county chair's name for now, but this may need further posting in the future.

Here is part of an email from that former candidate that was shared with me. Hubby and I met him during his last campaign, and since he was supported by Florida DFA though not in our district, we donated. We liked him.

I would love to be proved wrong on this. I really would like that, but I fear I am right. A reporter for a major paper in the area is looking into it, but nothing yet. If they look into this the way they looked in the way the Florida Democrats handled the prinary problem, then I don't have much hope. The major papers took the state party line....hook line and sinker. Fingers crossed, though.

I am a Democrat. As Democrats we hold as foundational the principle that as Democrats, we allow EVERY voice to be heard. Even voices of dissent... Voices loud or soft that may ask questions which we find uncomfortable. Rather than silence these voices, one might well imagine that the most productive recourse would be to inquire further into the circumstances, which lead to these "questions" being asked in the first place. A process called introspection. As Democrats, we also allow EVERYONE the opportunity to participate. As Democrats, we are supposed to represent the "little guy." The Democratic Party as I grew to know it was... THE PARTY OF INCLUSION. Today, the Democratic Party has become more the party of EXCLUSION... leaving those who dare to inquire, no place to go but to the back of the bus.

Here is the website of John Russell.

http://johnrussellforcongress.com/

Here is more of what happened when he wanted to attend a fundraiser for a county. This is another email from another Florida Democrat. It is referring to the same county chair, but this time the statement is made he can not attend the fundraiser.

Permission to share, but I am leaving out names. This is a very bad situation.

As a firm believer in freedom of speech and our democracy, I feel I must make people aware of a recent action taken against a formerly nominated Democratic candidate for U.S. Congress, John Russell, by the Chair of the _____ Democratic Executive Committee. I had mailed a check in the amount of $150.00 to cover the costs for myself and two guests to attend the "United We Stand" fundraiser being held on October 12, 2007 at __________. I received a call from one of the organizers asking for the names of my guests and provided those names, one of whom was John Russell. Within 10 minutes, I received a call from the Chair of the _________. She informed me that John Russell would not be allowed to attend and that he would be "stopped at the door" if he showed up. Her reason was that he was "disruptive".

Let's summarize this. A former candidate whom the party shut out before, with a state congresswoman even praising his opponent, Ginny Brown Waite....was told he could not run again, and also was told he could not attend a fundraiser or he would be stopped at the door.

Something is very wrong with that picture.

The Sunshine State Democrats need to start letting more sunlight into the party.

[LiberalFighter]

1. Party rules don't determine who gets to run for political office.

State law does.

I doubt that he has veto power over who gets to run for office especially for federal office.

Do you know why the county chair is telling him not to run again?

[madfloridian]

2. The consensus reason is that he questions things.

His website from last year has great issues listed. He questions things, he is outspoken. He beat the candidate picked by the DCCC last time when that candidate was already being "trained" by Jane Harman's national security PAC. He was not supposed to be the candidate, the other guy was.

[zonmoy]

3. then that is probably the reason he is being blocked

so the puppet of the cabal that controls both parties is put in place to do their will rather than the peoples. to be honest I would love if he ran for congress in wisconsin since I would definitely vote for him if he did.

[madfloridian]

4. And they do over and over

They did it to other candidates who tried to run.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1487

And to Jan Scheider in FL 13.

[robinlynne]

11. His website is fantastic. He looks like a great candidate.

[flyarm]

59. i was a dem delegate in 2004 for fla in a county near John..he is a wonderful man..

and i consider him a friend..

I housed the Kerry Field rep for my county in 2004 for Kerry..and i was put in charge of helpnh the reps get volunteers for 15 rally's by the Kerry team..John Russell was one of my volunteers..and he was with me each and every time runing the VIP sections..because he cleared secret service easily and he was educated , intelligent and he was a pure gentleman! Always showed up in a blazer ..and had decorum, and impecable manners, and a died in the wool democrat.

but this is the attitude many of us have been warning others of ..and we have been ignored..seems we are always the "test" program in fla..for what is planned nationwide..

this is the DLC in action folks..they did this in the 2006 election cycle to us in Fla and to many of our candidates..and if i have said it once, i will say it again..this is Rahm Emmanuel..and the hillary gang..

don't believe me at your own risk..

this was done over and over to our great dem candidates in 2006..the DLC came in and ran republicans that they had change their registration just in time to run against our great dem candidates..and the repigs got the state FDP money.

and they shut any and all of us up who spoke out about it.

like i said ..ignore it to your own risk!

this disgusts me and makes me sick..

John Russell fought long and hard with Ion Sancho to get rid of our DRE voting machines..he is in video's speaking on the front stairs in Tallahassee.
But John and all our great dems who have been screwed by the DLC ..they know what is going on..

this is no longer a dem party folks..this is now a corporate party..at least it is in Fla..and anyone who speaks out is branded a troublemaker..

they tried to do it to me when i spoke out first in my county about the voting machines..they did everything they could to try to shut me up.

i just don't shut up to easily....



this is really dispicable.

John Russell is a wonderful wonderful man who has worked his ass off for dems in the state of florida..now they are trying to shut him up and shut him out!!

they did it to Jan Schnieder..they did it to many in our area..of florida.

and it was all planned to win florida for Hillary..

this was planned for a very long time!

it really makes me sick.

fly

[LiberalFighter]

26. Is the County Chair deciding who to run or the DCCC?

From what I can see of the district it is not in just one county. What do the other chairs say about the candidate? Do they want to support him?

Is he being blocked from Democratic functions in other counties within the district? If not then he should attend them. If they have monthly meetings attend them and make a request to be introduced and speak for a FEW minutes. He should try to talk to each County Chair, Vice, Secretary and Treasurer and any other officer of the County Party. He should know who they are after 1 campaign. Did Florida have a state convention last year? If so did he attend?

Is there anyone in the Florida delegation that might support him? Has he discussed his intent to run in that district with the state party?

Has he determined who are the major supporters in the district and had any conversation with them? If he has a base from the previous election he needs to expand that base.

Find out when elections are held for precinct chairs and get enough to run and win. After precinct chairs are elected then I would imagine shortly after the County Chair is elected by those precinct chairs. Depending on state party rules he might be able to appoint to any vacancies after the primary election. If you don't know how it works it should be part of Florida election law.

[madfloridian]

27. He ran against Ginny Brown Waite last time.

She is an entrenched Republican, and I think she took Karen Thurman's seat....someone will correct me if I am wrong. He did pretty well considering everything.

He will have to force his way in if the leaders have made another choice. He will have to fight all the way, and the media might pretend he doesn't exist.

It is really hard fighting the machine here, and sometimes it is just too tiring.

It is DCCC, but it is also a mindset here. They pick, that's it.

[Greyhound]

41. Multiply this all across the country and all the way up the food chain and you know why we

get the pseudo choices we are faced with every year.

[Dr.Phool]

37. John is well known in the district.

He won a 3-way primary in 2006 with 49%-39%-12%. The district covers 8 counties, and I've been to all of them. They're more like social clubs for octogenarians than a political organization. The repukes on the other hand are very well organized.

Although there is no smoking gun, John was pledged a lot of support in all the counties, but then all of a sudden, within a 2 week period, everything go real cold, and at times downright hostile during the primary season. It thawed a little during the general, but not much.

[flyarm]

65. and well respected by sincere dems!! eom

[Freddie Stubbs]

70. So, you don't think that his losing in a landslide last time has anything to do with it?

:shrug:

[autorank]

17. He tells the truth, unvarnished, and is a fighting progressive...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2039023&mesg_id=2040410

I actually know the guy and he's for real, not backing down.

Here's how it works. First, they didn't fund progressive Dem candidates for Congress in 2006, not a one. They said those candidates didn't have cash on hand. Well all of them mentioned (at the link) spent their own money. Russel got 40% plus with NO Florida or Naitonal Democratic money. Bowmen got 40+% and a 2008 primary candidate. The list goes on. Only one of the 8 progressives in Florida 2006 got any party money, $1500 from the DCCC, wow, rockin'! Second, they don't reward the effort. These progressives either have or will have primary opponents in 2008 if they run - the kiss of death for fund raising.

So, FDP screws them 1st time out with no funding then after they've spent their own money and built a base, team and name recognition, they get screwed with these primary opponents.

There's more, but that's enough. I hope Florida is an exception because what I've seen there is dreadful. It's as though it were designed to keep progressives out, except those who can self-fund.

[madfloridian]

29. Russell got 40%? Not bad in that district.

Yes, they seem to follow the DCCC mantra of requiring vast funds before they help you.

I remember John Russell posted and interviewed Thurman that her son, Macky, got $15,000 from the FDP. What I never found out was if his opponent got any support from them.

[autorank]

31. Good question. FDP didn't endorse his opponent, Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) did

(the second article in my post below, the one with the Q/A is the transcript of the the Thurman interview to which you refer. The question about giving her son money is there, she denies it until
he points out that it's in the Florida database, at which point, she walks off.)

Now what in the heck is Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a South Florida Democrat, doing endorsing the
Republican running against Russell?
-----------------------------------------------

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00219.htm

Prominent Florida Democrat Endorsed Republican Incumbent in Russell’s Race

Before the campaign in Florida’s 5th Congressional district ever got underway, one of Florida’s most prominent politicians seemed to endorse the Republican incumbent.

“The bottom line is that the voters, whether they’re in the most liberal or conservative or moderate districts, they like their elected officials to have the backbone of steel that Ginny Brown-Waite has,� said Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a liberal Democrat from Broward County who has worked with, and against, her since their days in the Florida Legislature.

“When constituents know they are represented by someone who is willing to vote her conscience and do the right thing and is independent and not a rubber-stamp, that’s going to be tough to beat.� St. Petersburg Times 27 May 2006

[madfloridian]

33. This Wasserman Schultz? Who is a New Democrat and works closely with Bill Nelson?

This one? Who got right about the DNC and Dean backing Alcee Hastings and Nelson. She is one of the chairs of Hillary's campaign here, and she has been pretty tough on Dean. She is not a liberal in many senses of the word.

Wasserman Schultz helps Nelson lead the battle against the DNC

This part of her statement was just not true. Dean tried to work with the state party since last year, and even more in early 2007...they blew him off.

She said they were not interested in working with Florida. Lie. Dean offered almost a million to help. They blew him off.

"They were absolutely uninterested in sitting down and figuring that out with us. So based on everything I’ve said, it became clear that we should just stick to the Jan. 29 date so we make sure Florida voters are counted."

[autorank]

40. Nelson, barely a Democrat,; Wasserman Schultz, Democrat when convenient;)

It's going to take the grassroots and the good people of Florida for the Democrats to win there in
2008.

You're right, Dean really tried to help Florida's Dems work this out. The early primary was a joke
and it was tacked on to a very popular bill making all counties use optical scans (after the primary).

So in Florida there's Nelson messing with Dean; Thurman working for an extremely powerful Republican lobbying firm even though Chair is a full time job; Wasserman Schultz endorsing Republicans running against progressives; and the House candidates with the most FDP funding are the most conservative Democrats, while the progressives starve and get nothing.

Grass roots time.

Are you going to the convention in Orlando? Planning to raise these questions?

[LiberalFighter]

48. It would be foolish for the DNC not to work with Florida

Even if the odds were that Florida would go Republican again it could still be kept in play to at least force the Republicans to spend time and money there.

But, I wouldn't for a minute believe that we can't win Florida.

[madfloridian]

51. Dean has tried to work with Florida. The primary vote was planned

and they had no intention of listening to him.

It will soon be over, though.

[flyarm]

62. the DNC all but kissed Fla's ass ..it was the DLC who turned their back on Dean!

and then proceeded to put on a huge smear campaign against Dean..

this was planned,.,get that..this was planned by the DLC..to win the delegates for Hillary..this was planned and executed by the DLC, Rahm, and Hillary's people!

fly

[tsuki]

80. She lost me when she started naming and defaming progressives. nt

[flyarm]

61. i believe we are the testing ground for what the DCCC and DLC have planned nationwide!

this was done in my county as well to wonderful Dem candidates..the DLC wants to destroy Dean and progressives..get this through your heads here folks..this is their plan!

We were told before the primary last year..if a candidate pulled in the most money they would get FDP money national money and state money..but i remember questioning..with the state people why that could or would be..as some candidates were in wealthy areas and others in poor areas..

well...they tried smearing me at a meeting for have=ing the balls to question them and their plan...

i stood up for our candidates in the very poor areas..understand ..near the beach areas..there is big $$$ ..in the inner cities..not so...there was no equaling it out..not as far at the DLC national types sent down to us..or from the FDP who was working in lock step with the DLC folks..

this was all planned and orchestrated!

so was destroying our delegation..now no delegates ..no one to speak out for the people and districts!

John Russell was and is a blessing to all of us Dems ..this is a disgrace.

i do not have permission to name the other candidates this was done to or i would name them...i won't do it without them wanting me to..but we have now lost many wonderful dems who have walked away in total disgust!

fly

[Dr.Phool]

66. Hey Fly, good to see you again.

They just fucked Clint Curtis real good too.

He was told in an off hand way, that if he dropped his challenge to the election, they'd get behind him, and they expected Feeney to be under indictment anyway, and he'd get all kinds of support.

Now, they go out and recruit another candidate! One who has a shady kickback background herself.

[flyarm]

74. Hi Dr Phool..yeah i saw that one coming..and Clint has done so much to try to stop Feeney

thats the problem..I do not think the DLC wants Feeney stopped..or exposed ..

Look, I am convinced this is a national plan that is being tested..where else ..but Fla..we are the testing grounds for all that is crooked and stinks!!

No one wants to look at it until election day..when we lose again..because it is being orchestrated by the National DLC'ers...and no one from other states want to look at what we are warning them about..until it happens to them!

It is so frustrating trying to make Dems in other states see what is really going on..we have to see it up front each and every day..

Consequently I trust about ..no one..in Fla politics..

I have peace of mind when I am in my other state and dems are real dems!!..and not a party of infiltrated repigs and DLC'ers trying to destroy those who care most about the democratic party values.

It is so sad to see what could be .. in another state ..and what is ..in Florida.

..and ya know what....there are wonderful Dems in Florida..truely wonderful democrats..who daily work to better the party and people's lives..they are just neutered in every way by the corporate whores who have a nafarious agenda and now have control of the FDP.

They are certainly not democratic party values , that I know and have lived my entire life.


Dr Phool..
I always thank you for all you do for us dems in Fla..and I Thank John Russell..for all he has done as well..

there is an agenda..that does not square with those of us who value democratic values..going on and i do not know how to stop it..i have prayed for Gore to get in the fight to stop the people behind all of this in our state..but my hopes fade each day..

This was and is being done to promote one and only one dem presidential candidate..and it stinks to high heaven..you know it as well as i do..

fly

[CT_Progressive]

5. The legal answer is "No, the party cant do squat to prevent him from running. "

Period.

If he files his paperwork, and another candidate does from the same party, that forces a primary.

Simple as that.

[madfloridian]

7. They can pretend they don't exist....with complicit media.

They just ignore them. They never mention them.

[GreenPartyVoter]

73. Yep. So very true

[flyarm]

75. funny you say that..there is one reporter..who went to the 2004 convention

and i can't stand his guts..and this ..one of the papers of record in my area..wanted to interview me and follow me through the convention..i said ...that guy ( reporter..ha!)...i won't even talk to..i said only the boss..the head honcho ..would i talk to or even acknowledge!!

So the only one i allowed to write an article about me, and who i would acknowldge, was the boss ..the top editor of the paper..and I wouldn't budge..

I won't play into their bullshit games!!

fly

[Dr.Phool]

9. In all probability,

It wasn't so much of an order not to run, but more likely an emotional outburst, because they've probably got another genius waiting in the wings.

I just checked the Division of Elections website, and another candidate has filed as a Dem for the seat. His name is David Werder. He finished 3rd in the primary last time with about 12% of the vote. He's a nice guy who runs for office as a hobby. He doesn't try to raise any funds, tells good jokes on the campaign trail. He has a long white beard and rides a motorcycle to all events. I don't think he has a car. And at the last convention, he showed up in a Santa Claus outfit.

His claim to fame is that back in the '70s he spent over a year on top of a flagpole in Clearwater to protest the high price of gas.

[madfloridian]

10. Well said, Dr.

:rofl:

[autorank]

18. Good point. Primary opponents disocurage donors.

The various PACs that support progressives look at races and fund those without primary candidates first. This is a perfect example. Nice system. Maybe that's why we have a Democratic controlled House that can't do squat on Iraq etc. It's worth taking a look at the new class or finding out who did that already. I'd be curious how many progressives were recruited to run; how many were supported by their state and national Democratic Party.

[Dr.Phool]

6. Kick and Rec.

After I read your post, I called John Russell, and he says he won't be a former candidate for long. He's going to be filing again in the near future.

As someone who was intimately involved in his last campaign, I can testify to a lot of funny business that happened during the primary. And even more during the general. The County Chair in question conveniently "forgot" to form a federal PAC, and could not donate money to us (But there are legal ways around that). In a district that covers all or parts of 8 counties, we received support from ONE. And they caught hell from the FDP over that.

As for the DCCC picked candidate, what a disaster! I've known him for several years. He's a very nice likable guy. But, a lousy candidate. They just wanted someone they could control.

I could go on and on, but I'll post some more later if necessary.

[madfloridian]

8. Glad he is filing for sure.

We met the other guy last time also. Our district is just close enough that some in our area are in corners of that district. We aren't but we meet them at meetings and fundraisers anyway.

This was an outrageous thing for her to do. It really was.

[loudsue]

24. Hey Mad! Thanks for keeping us informed about Florida.

I'm sure glad there are some SANE people like you down there!

Can't the county people get rid of that county chair? Can't someone start a campaign to get in someone who is honest?? And not a wholly owned whore for the DLC?

Thanks for all you do! :hi:

:kick:

[madfloridian]

77. Hi and thanks....

but very hard to do anything here. We really did try hard for a while, and may do so again.

[flyarm]

81. Mad ..is queen to me!!..eom

[robinlynne]

12. When he files, you can help him get on progressive support lists. Feingold has one,

dfa, pda, and other progressive organizations. moveon too, I think collects donations for progressives.

[flyarm]

63. we need to get him on Mike Malloy show..and get national attention to get $$

becsuse he won't get any from the FDP..count on that!

fly

[youngharry]

58. Dr. Phoo

As someone who knows Florida politics very well, please be advised that not all those that are registered Democrats are in fact Democrats. This goes way back to the 60s when it became part of the M.O. of the Florida Republican Party to have their members re-register as Democrats and then volunteer for Democratic campaigns to get inside info and to destroy them from inside.
Get your team together---those that you trust---and create secret phone banks, in a couple of your relatives houses. Keep a headquarters, but only to throw them off base---where your phones will be tapped. Only use pay phones and then not the same ones all the time to communicate with each other.

Good Luck.

[robinlynne]

13. As for being stopped at the door; that sounds exactly like what the neocons do.

No dissenters allowed near a candidate.....

[tkmorris]

14. Just had a look at Russell's website and...........

WOW is all I can say. This man is precisely the kind of candidate we need to be supporting. I can see why the pro-corporate toadies in the party leadership don't like him. I am going to keep an eye on this guy, he is going to need our help getting elected.

[autorank]

39. The dislike him so much, he has trolls show up when he posts on news blogs.

They say really nasty things, totally in appropriate. It's always a personal attack. I've seen
it and it's disgusting. They have the same ugly themes and show up where he does. Can't help but
think it's organized.

That is a great web site.

[The Backlash Cometh]

15. Actually, in Florida, it's not a bad idea to run twice. Especially if you've

done something positive since the last time.

It's one way to build name recognition in small locales.

[autorank]

16. Check out these two articles on Florida's Democratic Party & Progressives, e.g. Russell

M. Collins: Florida Citizens Versus Party Insiders

Tuesday, 17 July 2007, 9:39 pm
Opinion: Michael Collins

Candidate for Congress John Russell with DNC Chair Dean, Summer 2006

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00219.htm

Michael Collins
“Scoop� Independent News
Washington, D.C.

Karen Thurman is the current Chairman of the Florida Democratic Party. Al Cardenas is the former Chairman of the Florida Republican Party and a major player in Republican politics in Florida. Al pays Karen $3,500 a month to lobby Democrats in Washington in behalf of Miami-Dade County.

Ms. Thurman gets $100,000 a year for the full time position of party chair. Apparently she’s giving 242% since the Cardenas contract and another extracurricular endeavor earn her an extra $142,000 beyond the cool $100,000 she gets from the Democrats.

The St. Petersburg Times quoted Rep. Dan Gelber, (D-Miami Beach) as saying: "Everybody in political life navigates the ironies of relationships and friendships. It's ironic, but it's not improper." This was typical of the tolerance shown by others in the Florida Democratic establishment to this apparent conflict.

It could have been more ironic. The other firm representing Miami-Dade in Washington is Greenberg Taurig of Miami where convicted felon and former Republican operative Jack Abramoff served as a partner.

Snip



Snip

The only Democratic Congressional challengers well funded by the state party in 2006 were: Christine Jennings, Charlie Stuart, Phyllis Busansky, Ron Klein, and Republican turned Democrat Tim Mahoney (running against Foley in the 16th). Klein and Mahoney were the only party supported candidate to win. The rest received little to nothing. These Democratic Congressional candidates (Progressives) were largely or entirely neglected by the Florida Democratic Party: Dr. Bob Bowman, (Lt. Col, Ret) (15th), David Bruderly (6th), Clint Curtis (24th), Frank Gonzalez (21st), Samm Simpson (10th) and Russell (5th). However, four of the six did receive money from the progressive National Committee for an Effective Congress. Each of these candidates fought hard campaigns with little support and went down in defeat.


...and on Florida's Democratic Party Chairperson Karen Thurman

Collins: Citizen Russell Interviews Karen Thurman

Thursday, 19 July 2007, 10:02 pm
Article: Michael Collins
Show Me the Money (& Listen to the Tape)

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00271.htm

Michael Collins
“Scoop� Independent News
Washington, D.C.

KT - Karen Thurman, Chairperson of FDP
JR - John Russell, Congressional Candidate, 2006, Democrat
Tape starts.

KT: John how are ya?

JR: Very good Karen. Just drove all the way down to hear your side of the story on this Miami Herald thing (telling of the F

KT: I’m not worried about it John

JR: They’re a lot of people are concerned about it.

KT: OK so what do you want me to say?

JR: If you worked for Pepsi, can you honestly you do some consulting on the side for Coke?

KR: Well I don’t work for Al.

JR: He signs the check doesn’t he?

KT: He does…no, his check comes from the Miami Dade County Commission who says, we need some democrats.

JR: The paper says you’re working on a number of lobbying gigs.

KT: No they said that I have the Miami Dada contract that he has. They said to him, since the Congress has changed to be Democrat, that they they want some Democrats representing them to Washington, DC.

KT: No they said that I have the Miami Dada contract that he has. They said to him, since the Congress has changed to be Democrat, that they they want some Democrats representing them to Washington, DC. SNIP …the concern is there is only one party in Florida, the money party, and you represent the Democratic side and Al Cardenas is representing the Republican side. Where do the ordinary people fit in? We only have so much time…

[madfloridian]

19. Here is the fundraiser Russell allegedly would not be allowed into.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2007/10/hillary-who.html

She was/is DFA I hear, and I am disappointed even more. We should believe in primaries. Russell proved to be a good candidate, beating the one picked by the DCCC....a familiar story told often in Florida.

[Dr.Phool]

22. Her DFA group never held a meeting.

It was formed by the Penberthy campaign to give an illusion of grassroots support. They had a bunch of DEC members sign up, and never held a meeting.

When Penberthy was asked at a DFA candidates forum in Hernando County, during the primary, how many DFA meetings he attended, he answered, "This is the first".

[madfloridian]

23. Aha....I had heard that. But forgotten.

Thanks for reminding me. I even remember when the group was formed. Sneaky stuff...

[knitter4democracy]

20. We've had that happen here in Michigan, too.

If the powers that be don't like the candidate, he often gets frozen out. Ticks a lot of us off.

[autorank]

32. What do you think of the big three Dem candidates ignoring Michigan?

I saw Lou Dobbs Kirking out over this but I listened anyway;) and he had a point - Michigan has some
major problems, it's a huge state, and it's been loyal to Democrats. So why don't they go? Silly,
if you ask me. Or maybe they have been there and this is just disinfo. But if not, bad on them.

[madfloridian]

35. Hillary IS going. The others are not.

MI broke the rules like Florida did.

Apparently people LOVE Hillary's "disciplined" campaign, but get pissed when Dean tried to instill party discipline.

:shrug:

[autorank]

38. If Dean weren't there this party would be over.

He's like the Dutch boy holding his finger in the damn. And they stole credit form him in 2006, as
though he were an titular leader. We were verging on implosion after 2004 until Boxer stepped in and
saved the party. Now, we've got Dean, about the only reason progressives can find for sticking around,
that an hope that a real progressive runs. At least, that's my opinion.

Amazing times.

[knitter4democracy]

43. Clinton's on the ballot, as is Kucinich.

Kucinich got his paperwork in late to get removed from the ballot, and Clinton is saying she won't campaign here, even though she'll be on the ballot.

Right now, it's a game of chicken. Michigan's tired of being called a swing state but not really having any say in who the presidential candidates are. We're not important until late in the campaign every time, and we're trying to get the respect we deserve on this. We're a purple state, really, and I know many Dems are ticked off that the candidates aren't coming. Some are even saying they'll vote in the Republican primary and like Ron Paul. The Republicans had a debate here, at least, and while I think Romney overdid it when he said we have the worst economy in the country, at least they're paying attention.

I think all of this is going to backfire on the Dems. Florida did the same thing we did, so are they not going to seat their delegates, either? Two huge swing states? Somehow, I don't think so.

[madfloridian]

44. So it's ok to you if big states break the rules?

I don't agree.

Yes, they will lose their delegates. Yes, the nominee will seat them.

It's ok if MI and FL do it? I don't think so.

[knitter4democracy]

46. I'm not happy our state party started this fight, no, but--

I don't think New Hampshire and Iowa should decide our nominee. The way things are now, the states that become important later have no say in whom our candidate becomes.

Look, life's pretty crappy in Michigan right now. By all the stats, we're in a depression (worse than the Great Depression in some numbers), so the last thing most of us want to hear is that we're not important, that our issues don't count (or did the unions become a big force in Iowa all of a sudden?), and that we should take that condescending pat on the head and be good. That's what is under all of this, I'm sure. I think Dean needs to figure out a better way before losing the state to the Republican candidate in the general.

[madfloridian]

50. Don't you worry. Hillary takes over control in Jan. or Feb. Delegates will count

The nominee will be in power. They can replace that bad chairman with Harold Ford or Simon Rosenberg or even Terry McAuliffe. And everything will go back to just as it was in the party. Comfortable, no one trying to change things.

Nice.

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a
"voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the
DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to
let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local
email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in
chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument
here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone
call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to
Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had
to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

[knitter4democracy]

55. ?????

I'm no Clinton fan, and I don't pretend to understand exactly what's going on here. Heck, I became a Dem because of Dean. I know that our county party leadership doesn't like Dean, which confuses me, but I don't like Dean treating our state like this. This stupid game of chicken could lose us votes, and I think both sides need to get their heads out of their asses.

Look--Michigan's barely Dem. Union votes cannot be counted on anymore, and we're losing union members anyway (job losses, etc.). Most of the state (area-wise) is very conservative, and all it takes is the Dem Party to seem disrespectful to lose someone's vote. Right now, that's how it looks here. People are pretty ticked off.

[madfloridian]

56. Then your state and Florida should admit they broke party rules...

and blamed the party that set the rules. That is what is missing and what makes me so angry. So angry that I can not work with the party here in Florida for a while.

Lies matter. It is NOT the DNC that is taking the votes away. All the states knew the rules. I know Florida voted for them, and I assume MI did as Mark Brewer used to be supportive of Dean's efforts. I guess he changed.

Florida is getting away with making it sound like they are the victims, and they are not. They are able to get away with it because the media is going along and not researching the issue.

You can fool the people for a long time when the media plays the game with you, but it will someday catch up.

I have noticed that where MI and FL are concerned now, that being honest doesn't matter. Being first was their goal, and the rest did not matter.

[knitter4democracy]

57. I haven't trusted Mark Brewer for awhile now.

He knows the mess our county party's in, and yet he does nothing about it. That makes no sense to me.

Like I said, this game of chicken's just going to cost us votes. It's stupid.

[flyarm]

64. dean didn't break the rules..he is forced to abide by the rules..so the dlc is making him the

strawman..

this was all planned and contrived by the DLC to marginalize Dean!

and progressives.

fly

[knitter4democracy]

71. But he's still the chairman. He can find a better way.

There has to be a better compromise, and we need him to lead out of it. Even if this is all a set-up, and it sure sounds like it is, then he still has to figure out how not to have a mess at the convention that ticks off thousands of key voters.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Dean fan and royally ticked off at how he gets the shaft all the time from the "powers that were and want to be again," but he's still in charge and can still fix it.

[flyarm]

72. the problem is ..he has tried to fix it ..in many different ways..and the dlc in fla

won't even attempt to look at the fixes..and they have ignored any and all of his fixes..and have left those who vote on the fixes out of the loop!..deliberately!

and those who are trying so hard to get the fixes in place aren't even getting the memo..

remember this some are very responsible and won't air the dirty laundry..because they are responsible dems.. ...and are trying to effect the fixes quietly..but the dlc powers in the state are putting knives in the backs of those who are trying to find solutions..

..or are pushing those who are trying to effect fixes out of the party.

fly

[knitter4democracy]

78. You know, that sounds a lot like my county party up here in MI.

I could totally see it happening on a state level. This is soooo not the time for this power-grab crap.

[NobleCynic]

21. Sorry, but nothing out of Florida suprises me.

For those who read it, fark has a Florida tag for a reason.

[madfloridian]

25. She reported from Yearly Kos and treated a progressive candidate like this?

Telling him he can not intend their fancy fundraiser in a country club, even though he was their candidate last time?

Here's her report from Yearly Kos. This makes me angry. She apparently started a DFA group with Rick Penberthy to get the DFA people on board, and this year attends Yearly Kos....and then tells John Russell not to run, and says he will be stopped at the door from entering their fundraiser. HIS fundraiser, OUR fundraiser, not HER fundraiser.

http://www.fladems.com/content/w/2007_yearlykos_convention

I thought nothing would shock me after they voted and worked with the Republicans on the early primary and then blamed it on Dean and are suing him.

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

[LiberalFighter]

28. Who decides who is the State Chair?

I know it isn't the District Chairs.

In our state it is the Junior Senator. He use to be the Governor.


Oh yes... Is your District Chair also against Russell as a candidate? He needs to work on those officers too.

You should contact DFA and let them know that Florida do not prescribe to the DFA principles.

[madfloridian]

30. Our county chair sent a letter to withhold funds from the DNC

because they said the primary was all Dean's fault. That tells you a lot right there. She heard from a lot of us, and sort of backed down. I imagine she agrees with the Pasco chairwoman.

The DFA was told about this.

[Dr.Phool]

34. The State Committee people from the county DEC's elect the chair.

But, it's a weighted vote, according to the population of each county.

Bill Nelson threw his support behind Thurman for Chair. That convinced just enough people to back her.

[madfloridian]

36. And they used tactics to keep progressives from running.

.

[LiberalFighter]

47. Seems to me that the best way to get Thurman out is to put the heat on Nelson

Enough of you would have to organize to do this.

To put the heat on Nelson you would have to put the heat on Thurman's involvement with the Republican Party.

Whoever becomes the nominee for President will need to put in place an organization to work around Nelson/Thurman's people and hopefully expose those not working for the party. If the state party and renegade party chairs don't support and help the Presidential nominee and other candidates they will suffer the consequences.

If Harris gets elected who is he likely to call for press announcements in the area? The party chair who blocked his candidacy or his supporters?

Party Chairs should not be stupid in preventing candidates from running unless the candidate is a complete or near bozo. If a candidate wins when a party chair comes out against them they lose their control.

[madfloridian]

54. We can't put heat on Nelson.

Many of us have tried to get him to listen for years. He tends to be very concerned about Republican votes and working with them.

[flyarm]

76. sorry but i am chuckling here...heat on Nelson?? ...

nope..won't happen...

nope ...will not happen

fly

[ooglymoogly]

42. kr for exposure

[Coexist]

45. I hope he runs again.

[Dr.Phool]

67. He's going to.

Unfortunately, I won't be part of his team this time.

I'm buying a pizza joint in Tampa, and that will take up most of my time.

[Coexist]

68. best of luck with that.

[dkofos]

49. Like we keep telling the Repubes, we need to take our party back.

And by the way, you should name names.

[SergeyDovlatov]

52. party is a private organization... it can do whatever it wants

though doing bad things can tarnish the image of the brand (democratic party)

[autorank]

60. They're so comfortable in their dominance, they don't even think of image.

Otherwise they wouldn't do things like keeping a candidate out of his county "unity" dinner.

But they think we're nothing. how else do you explain taking "power" and doing nothing about Irak,
voting for those two Iran amendments enabling and encouraging Bush.

When there's no style and no substance, what's left?

[SergeyDovlatov]

53. dup. please ignore

my browser is playing tricks on me

[Malikshah]

69. Florida Dem "leadership"-- Delusional Stockholm Syndrome types

every last one of them.

With Democratic folks like this, who needs Republicans.

Oh, for the days of Bob Graham.

[AuntPatsy]

79. Something is definately wrong and thank you for not allowing it to be ignored.

[madfloridian]

82. I don't intend to let it be ignored any longer.

Something weird is going on in Florida, and it needs the light of day shining on it.

:hi: