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"War on Christmas" silliness comes early to suburban Detroit

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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 08:24 PM
Original message
"War on Christmas" silliness comes early to suburban Detroit
from the Detroit Free Press:



Write-in hopeful defends creche
Nativity scene back as a values issue for City Council race
October 15, 2007

BY BILL LAITNER

FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER

Debate is back in Berkley on whether religious symbols should sit outside City Hall.

On Nov. 6, voters are to decide on a charter amendment to return a Christian nativity scene to public land.

Running unopposed until last week had been Mayor Marilyn Stephan, who sided with a council vote last year to remove the nativity scene under threat of a lawsuit from the American Civil Liberties Union.

But Stephan's election cakewalk ended Thursday, when former mayor Maybelle Fraser filed to run as a write-in candidate. Fraser's name won't be on ballots, which already had been printed, but she's well ahead of the Oct. 26 deadline for write-ins, City Clerk Karen Brown said.

Fraser, 76, was on the City Council in 1989-93, returning as mayor from 1995 to 1997.

On Friday, she said she wanted to revive "the values we have here," including a City Hall-based depiction of Jesus' birth.

Of her opponent, she said, "I don't think there will be any barbs thrown. I just don't agree with her decisions, especially on the nativity scene."

Stephan, 73, and in her eighth year on the council -- including the last two as mayor -- said Friday that she and the council majority felt good about their 6-1 vote in October 2006 to give the nativity scene to the Berkley Area Clergy Association. It was displayed last year downtown on the lawn of Berkley First United Methodist Church on West 12 Mile.

"And there wasn't a snowman or a choo-choo train beside it" and "there weren't gift boxes all lit up -- which we would've had to put up with if we'd kept it at City Hall," Stephan said, referring to federal court decisions that require placing secular symbols beside religious displays on public land.

Some residents, including Councilman Dale GoodCourage, have objected to having secular symbols with the nativity scene. Yet ACLU lawyers told the city it needed secular symbols to comply with the law. .....(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007710150317



Check out some of the reader comments on the story. Proof positive that the average citizen is much smarter than the average elected official:

Post a Comment View All Comments

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chin music

As a Berkley resident, I find this whole flap about a religious symbol to be hilarious. The original complainant who objected to the religious symbols on public property was, and remains a citizen of Berkley, as are the majority of city council and the whole clergy association, who all oppose it. Yet, the "vote yes" crowd continues to refer to "outside groups" interfering with Berkley affairs. I guess that they are referring to the ultra right-wing Thomas Moore center and the many non-residents of Berkley that are providing most of their support.
Our family plans to vote NO on this silly nonsense, because if a nativity scene is displayed on public property, it must be accompanied by secular items and other religions must be allowed to place their own symbols on the same property with equal status, by order of the Supreme Court. However, if the proposal passes, it could be very entertaining. I would very much like to be around the leaders of the proposal when somebody insists on their right to put a Wicken symbol or marijuana leaf out there with baby Jesus. I'll bet their heads will explode.

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:34 pm


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RGoffeney

I don't understand why the "Vote Yes" folks would want to cheapen the Nativity display by crowding it 'round with Santa, Rudolf and a host of secular Christmas stuff. If the "Vote Yes" proponents were TRULY concerned about the sanctity of our Nativity display, they would be delighted by the solution worked out by the City Council and ALL the Berkley Clergy last year, giving the Nativity the prominence it deserves, on our main street.

I think the "Vote Yes" folks have good intentions, but I suspect they're being manipulated by the radical Thomas More Law Center. Don't let outsiders drag the City of Berkley into their Culture Wars - vote NO and let Berkley go back to being Berkley

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:42 am


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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. RIght next door, it's where I lived in 1947-1959. They have SIGNS on the lawns for this 'issue.'
Edited on Mon Oct-15-07 08:31 PM by TahitiNut
Amazing. They sure don't teach civics in Berkley High School like they did when I went there.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Uh-0h...
Edited on Mon Oct-15-07 09:02 PM by IanDB1
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Sad but true!!
:thumbsup:
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. "RGoffeney" makes good points.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. You'd have to be familiar with Berkley to know just how sensible that is.
Edited on Tue Oct-16-07 01:59 AM by TahitiNut
The "Town Hall" is a small complex on a side street, somwhat apart from the main shopping district and the flow of traffic. The church on 12 Mile Road is in the main shopping district and 12 Mile Road is the most heavily-trafficked in Berkley. Placing the display at the church is far more prominent.

But it's clear that's not the point of the advocates ... which is to hijack the coercive power of government (and it's resources). These are theocrats, not democrats ... mimicking the attitudes of the Taleban.

This is the church ...


Here's where it's located (12 Mile, west of Coolidge, is the shopping and banking district) ...


For comparison, the City Hall complex is southeast of the intersection of 12 Mile and Coolidge one block sout and one block east.

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Ready4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. Not even Halloween yet.
Yes, I am at War with Christmas. I'll lay down my arms when it's actually Christmas-TIME, not one second before.

I'm seeing Christmas decorations for sale in hardware stores. It's a blight. Kids are going trick-or-treating in Santa outfits.

Hell, I'm gonna celebrate July 4th in a leprechaun outfit. Why not?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. I miss the good old days, when the "War on Christmas" didn't start until after Thanksgiving.
Edited on Tue Oct-16-07 01:57 AM by impeachdubya
...sigh.

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