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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) |
arendt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 07:32 AM Original message |
RANT: Is it Sophistry Yet? |
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BridgeTheGap (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 07:42 AM Response to Original message |
1. It could be at least one of two things (or both) |
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arendt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 07:50 AM Response to Reply #1 |
5. They go together: those lacking critical thinking find sophistry nearly impossible to refute. n/t |
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DCKit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:10 AM Response to Reply #5 |
9. I am not an unintelligent person, but.... |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 01:40 PM Response to Reply #9 |
131. Sophists have made up their minds....there's no use arguing with them... |
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Toots (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 07:43 AM Response to Original message |
2. "DUers don't do nuance". |
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WilliamPitt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:20 AM Response to Reply #2 |
12. 1010101010101010101010101 |
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Hutzpa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:11 AM Response to Reply #12 |
45. 真真真 |
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WilliamPitt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:36 AM Response to Reply #45 |
52. Binary code, i.e. "black and white" |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 07:47 AM Response to Original message |
3. You called me a book-burner for pointing out how different prefascist Germany was from our situation |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 09:38 AM Response to Reply #3 |
35. What definition of fascism are you using? |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 09:41 AM Response to Reply #35 |
37. We do have a fascistic government. We don't have fascism or reaction comparable to Germany's |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 09:46 AM Response to Reply #37 |
39. I see what you're saying... |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:07 AM Response to Reply #39 |
43. The causes, the context, and the methods are different. That doesn't make our plight less dangerous |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:09 AM Response to Reply #43 |
44. Is it really? |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:14 AM Response to Reply #44 |
46. I don't think the best arguments against where we're going have enough exposure |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:15 AM Response to Reply #46 |
47. The arguments against where we're going? |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:20 AM Response to Reply #47 |
48. The best arguments -against- our increasing authoritarianism don't have exposure |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:25 AM Response to Reply #48 |
49. I see... |
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robinlynne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:52 AM Response to Reply #49 |
57. ah red, you are a patient queen. |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:05 AM Response to Reply #49 |
65. It's worse in some aspects, better in others |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:08 AM Response to Reply #65 |
69. Well of course different... |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:15 AM Response to Reply #69 |
70. Now -that's- hard to say. It's difficult to find a historical model that would be a good predictor |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:19 AM Response to Reply #70 |
71. Thanks, jpgray. |
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Uncle Joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 09:30 AM Response to Reply #70 |
118. Regarding this sentence |
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tigereye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 09:55 AM Response to Reply #37 |
40. well the interesting thing is that Hitler apparently made alliances initially |
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Hutzpa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:35 AM Response to Reply #37 |
51. What you have not |
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JDPriestly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 12:37 AM Response to Reply #37 |
99. My husband lived as a child in what was then NAZI Germany. |
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bread_and_roses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 08:28 AM Response to Reply #37 |
115. So if there are cause and context differences we can't compare outcomes? |
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EstimatedProphet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 07:17 AM Response to Reply #3 |
110. And a perfect reason why this is important happened yesterday |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 11:20 AM Response to Reply #110 |
123. Sorry what some of us said is |
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EstimatedProphet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 01:25 PM Response to Reply #123 |
130. Yes, it is unwarranted, given the fact that we didn't know anything |
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DCKit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 07:49 AM Response to Original message |
4. K&R, bookmarked and printed. |
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ret5hd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 07:52 AM Response to Original message |
6. Nihilists: |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 07:54 AM Response to Original message |
7. This is a political discussion board |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 09:39 AM Response to Reply #7 |
36. Dunno about you, but I won't discount everything a person says |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:01 AM Response to Reply #36 |
42. I'm simply pointing out the irony of the OP's |
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Hutzpa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:43 AM Response to Reply #42 |
54. Being here as long as I have |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:58 AM Response to Reply #54 |
62. As I said, it's always the lens we view things through |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:44 AM Response to Reply #62 |
78. One's RIGHT to an opinion (or viewpoint) does NOT equate to VALIDITY ... |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 02:18 PM Response to Reply #78 |
84. That's precisely what I said. |
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Hutzpa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:03 PM Response to Reply #84 |
94. Cali sometimes opinions |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 04:15 AM Response to Reply #94 |
104. That's often true |
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Totally Committed (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 07:56 AM Response to Original message |
8. Awesome post ---- Damn, you're good! |
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Triana (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:18 AM Response to Original message |
10. I'd like an answer to that myself. Even OFF of DU I have gotten Hell |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:28 AM Response to Reply #10 |
15. When one's definitions of "fascism" or "police state" become too elastic, they lose meaning |
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BridgeTheGap (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 09:16 AM Response to Reply #15 |
31. How important is the label? |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 09:27 AM Response to Reply #31 |
34. My problem only comes in when we are compared with a particular fascism |
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Hutzpa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:48 AM Response to Reply #15 |
56. You don't think so |
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WilliamPitt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:19 AM Response to Original message |
11. Your candidate sucks. |
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baldguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:26 AM Response to Original message |
13. On target |
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countingbluecars (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:27 AM Response to Original message |
14. Great post. n/t |
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alcibiades_mystery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:29 AM Response to Original message |
16. I actually like the Sophists |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:53 AM Response to Reply #16 |
26. Yep, Plato and Aristotle gave the Sophists a bad reputation they don't deserve. |
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Hutzpa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:55 AM Response to Reply #26 |
59. So from your |
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H2O Man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:36 AM Response to Original message |
17. Really good post. |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:40 AM Response to Reply #17 |
20. You shouldn't ignore history. You also shouldn't abuse it by hasty or inattentive analogy |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:37 AM Response to Original message |
18. Comparing the Neocons to the Nazis ignores the detailed surrounding the Nazis' rise to power. |
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robinlynne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:56 AM Response to Reply #18 |
61. the german communists are now the "terrorists". the idea is to create a common enemy. |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 03:24 PM Response to Reply #61 |
87. In my experience people are getting sick of the "terrah, terrah, terrah!!!" crap. |
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robinlynne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 03:29 PM Response to Reply #87 |
88. which has nothing to do with comparing the nazi's use of the communists |
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JDPriestly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 12:52 AM Response to Reply #18 |
100. Your argument is flawed. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:37 AM Response to Original message |
19. Deleted message |
Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:43 AM Response to Reply #19 |
22. Deleted message |
Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:52 AM Response to Reply #19 |
24. Deleted message |
jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:58 AM Response to Reply #24 |
28. Edited out |
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tom_paine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 09:04 AM Response to Reply #28 |
29. Ummm, have I put you on ignore, jp? |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 09:12 AM Response to Reply #29 |
30. Don't apologize--I'm the asshole for making that assumption |
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tom_paine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 09:20 AM Response to Reply #30 |
32. I understand. We're cool. |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 09:25 AM Response to Reply #32 |
33. I think an extreme level of concern is definitely warranted |
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Zodiak (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:06 AM Response to Reply #30 |
66. I'm cool with you jpgrey |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:40 AM Response to Original message |
21. Hmm. |
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Elspeth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:54 AM Response to Reply #21 |
58. Hmmm squared |
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H2O Man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:44 AM Response to Original message |
23. Malcolm X |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:52 AM Response to Reply #23 |
25. That's actually a good example of sophistry. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 01:48 PM Response to Reply #25 |
83. Not to mention that it misportrays some DUers as "the enemy" |
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tom_paine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:54 AM Response to Reply #23 |
27. That's why the Bushies likely paid those black guys to kill him |
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Hutzpa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:07 AM Response to Reply #27 |
68. Tom.....Tom....Tom....... |
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tom_paine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:27 AM Response to Reply #68 |
75. Oh, you believe that the "60s Bushies" had nothing to with those murders |
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Hutzpa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:41 AM Response to Reply #75 |
77. I'm not so sure about Malcolm |
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tom_paine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:49 AM Response to Reply #77 |
79. Touche. I withdraw my statement. |
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Hutzpa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:08 PM Response to Reply #79 |
96. Thank God for common sense |
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H2O Man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 09:08 AM Response to Reply #27 |
117. Shortly before |
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Richard Steele (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 09:43 AM Response to Original message |
38. Yes. Yes it is. recommended |
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Cerridwen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 09:59 AM Response to Original message |
41. Well Done! K & R |
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Atman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:32 AM Response to Original message |
50. You described "the site that must not be mentioned" to a tee. |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:43 AM Response to Original message |
53. I appreciate your trying to put an intellectual framework on these discussions, |
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MedleyMisty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:56 AM Response to Reply #53 |
60. My favorite way of putting it is that they think Hitler came into existence in September of 1939 |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:58 AM Response to Reply #53 |
63. Actually the more in depth your knowledge of German history, the less comparable the two become |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:07 AM Response to Reply #63 |
67. I agree with your point that the context is different |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:21 AM Response to Reply #67 |
72. But you're correct that people who just say "we haven't killed 6 million Jews" are missing something |
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Hutzpa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:25 AM Response to Reply #63 |
74. we agree to disagree |
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HiFructosePronSyrup (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:47 AM Response to Original message |
55. It's 2007. |
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robinlynne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:58 AM Response to Original message |
64. most excellent post. Thank-you. |
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progressoid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:21 AM Response to Original message |
73. No Shit! |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:32 AM Response to Original message |
76. "Anyone recognize any of these behaviors occurring at DU?" |
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Hutzpa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 12:18 PM Response to Original message |
80. Won't allow a slow death, so.... |
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hootinholler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 01:22 PM Response to Original message |
81. "To focus on the horse race is to lose sight of the political ideas we hold sacred as a democracy." |
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T.Ruth2power (371 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 01:35 PM Response to Original message |
82. Excellent rant |
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earth mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 02:48 PM Response to Original message |
85. Awesome post! The game plan is to muddy the waters because they can't have people knowing the truth. |
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flashl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 02:51 PM Response to Original message |
86. Seem sometimes like human bots appear for specific topics. n/t |
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arendt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 05:27 PM Response to Original message |
89. Front page kick. n/t |
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conscious evolution (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 05:53 PM Response to Original message |
90. The sophists are definitely here. |
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L0oniX (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 07:55 PM Response to Original message |
91. Kick (_o_) & R |
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tom_paine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 08:54 AM Response to Reply #91 |
116. Damn, Loonix, that's a great quote plucked from the past! |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:42 PM Response to Original message |
92. can't believe i've missed this thread all day -- wonderful discussion! |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 08:46 PM Response to Original message |
93. Well said and we know WHO they are |
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DS1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 10:05 PM Response to Original message |
95. The more center you move (Hillary) the closer to you move to right |
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barbtries (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-16-07 11:47 PM Response to Original message |
97. thank you |
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sce56 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 12:18 AM Response to Original message |
98. I have been calling them NAZIS for quite sometime now! I also get locked quite a bit! |
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Senator (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 02:39 AM Response to Original message |
101. Diagnosis: Impeachophobia |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 02:48 AM Response to Reply #101 |
102. Thank you for that link |
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cornermouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 04:10 AM Response to Original message |
103. Yes!!!!!! |
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Pacifist Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 04:42 AM Response to Original message |
105. I have often wondered if it our educational system coupled with... |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 05:14 AM Response to Original message |
106. Really wanna see this crap? Check out the "untruth" squad in the 9/11 dungeon nt |
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lvx35 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 05:42 AM Response to Original message |
107. I got called a sophist on this site, for claming that the democratic party represented |
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Syntheto (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 05:49 AM Response to Original message |
108. Perceptions are important. |
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arendt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 07:36 AM Response to Reply #108 |
112. Your very first post! I am honored. Seriously. And it is a very deep, intelligent post... |
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Syntheto (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 09:59 AM Response to Reply #112 |
121. Thank you for replying in the same vein. |
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tom_paine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 09:31 AM Response to Reply #108 |
119. Counter-point: what is the point of self-censorship against relentless propaganda? |
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Syntheto (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 11:07 AM Response to Reply #119 |
122. I am humbled by your response to my post, and again |
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tom_paine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 11:41 AM Response to Reply #122 |
124. No one is advocating violence. Awareness of a grim situation, |
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Syntheto (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 12:28 PM Response to Reply #124 |
127. I don't think that you're wrong to worry |
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tom_paine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 01:02 PM Response to Reply #127 |
129. Not to be a kiss-ass, and I don't say this to many people but YOU, sir |
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Syntheto (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 02:09 PM Response to Reply #129 |
132. I understand where your coming from |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 11:44 AM Response to Reply #122 |
125. Welcome to DU by the way |
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Syntheto (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 02:31 PM Response to Reply #125 |
133. Thank you, |
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Aviation Pro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 06:38 AM Response to Original message |
109. "The rules must be completely stable." |
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Blue_Tires (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 07:19 AM Response to Original message |
111. ttt |
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D23MIURG23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 07:57 AM Response to Original message |
113. Yeah this is familiar, and obnoxious. |
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GTurck (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 08:23 AM Response to Original message |
114. Demanding purity |
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MedleyMisty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 09:44 AM Response to Reply #114 |
120. Hmm - usually the sophists are the people using the "purity" attack |
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GTurck (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-18-07 09:44 AM Response to Reply #120 |
134. We agree.. |
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kineneb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 12:25 PM Response to Original message |
126. wow- lots of interesting posts, and my 2 cents... |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-17-07 12:36 PM Response to Original message |
128. Deleted message |
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