The Clintons have a symbiotic relationship

[cali]

in the political realm. There's nothing surprising about this. And it isn't an indication that she's where she is due ONLY to her husband.

She's long been an accomplished and capable woman in her own right. Love her, hate her, or something between.

And one indication of her capabilities lies in her campaign. She's running an impressive one. She's not George bush who truly is in the White House simply because his family and powerful friends installed him there.

Does being married to Bill help her? Sure. Did it in her run for the Senate? Yep. But she got out there herself and ran hard for that Senate seat, and she's doing the same for the Democratic nomination.

Suggesting that her marriage with Bill is the PRIMARY reason for her political career, is incorrect, and way too simplistic.

[NanceGreggs]

1. Well said, cali! n/t

[cali]

2. Thanks, Nance.

Coming from someone who says so much well, that's a nice compliment.

[northzax]

3. All good relationships are symbiotic

Both parties get what they want from the other. This is just the first real rockstar political marriage in modern times, at least publically. They challenge and push eachother, she is one of the reasons he was so successful, and he is one of the reasons she is so successful. Without the other, neither would be where they are today, successful, certainly, but not this successful. Combine the two and you have a vertiable supernoca of talent, skill and ambition. they really are the smnartest people in the room, any room.

sorry for spelling...blackberry issues.

i think one reason both inspire hate is because Bill could, quite literally,, have any woman he wanted, and he chose to while straying, stay with Someone who challenges him. I really think that many women are jealous of Hillaryshe loves her husband, he loves her and they work through problems, even public humiliation. And men are threatened by both, they are thinking 'my wife would castrate me if got got a bj from a chubby intern, why doesn't she?' and wondering what it is about her that has stopped Bill from getting a Fredesque trophy wife. he is a rich, powerful, brilliant, charismatic, flawed man, what does he see in her? Awhy does he encourage and support her, that's the woman's job!

we don't have role models of rich, poerful, ambitious and successful men who encourage their wives to do the same. Power couples are almost always unequal in some way, they aren't anymore, and it scares the daylights out of people who don't think they could do the same.

[sufrommich]

19. Insightful,thought provoking post.nt

[riderinthestorm]

23. Outstanding post. Thanks for your insight. nt

[aquart]

4. The marriage probably stalled her political career.

She couldn't run for anything while she was a governor's, then a president's wife. Yet she never lost her cool in public, never took it out on her beautifully-raised daughter, and never engaged in self-destructive behavior.

[book_worm]

5. She overcame a lot in NY

called a carpetbegger. She had high negatives there--but now that people know her she is very well liked and her negatives in NY are not what they once were. She did all of that on her own.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. Yeah, the same way Junior and Poppy are symbiotic.

[cali]

7. No. Not that you made a case

as to why they're the same.

Let's look at some differences:

Hillary Clinton- Distinguished herself aa an undergrad an in law school.

shrub: mediocre student.

Clinton politically active as a young woman.

shrub: no.

Clinton: worked with Marion Wright Edelman on issues vital to child health and welfare.

bush: drank

Clinton: lawyer with Congressional Committee during Watergate.

bush: drank. Arbusto.

Clinton: successful attny.

bush: one failure after another. bailouts from friends and family

Etc.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. And?

Is that supposed to mean it's not just as nepotistic?

[JuniperLea]

9. I wonder if Junior considers it "cheating"...

That Poppy spends so much time with Bill...

[mondo joe]

10. If Jr had been by Poppy's side from the start, as his chief peer and advisor, you might have had a

point.

[northzax]

11. That's intergenerational within a family

An ancient paradigm, ambitious fathers enabling their sons is as old as Herod. But ambitious men enabling their ambitious wives? Very rare.

how many examples can you think of of wildly successful, powerful men who literally could have anything they wanted stepping back to help their wives achieve the same? To not only equal them, but perhaps supercede them? sure, people do that for their sons, but how many do it for their wives?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

13. yes, because clearly husband wife relationship have the same paradigm as parent child

relationship

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Clearly there's no meaningful difference...

when it comes to nepotism.

[cali]

16. Well, in your mind that's clearly so.

Not that you've presented a case for your "clear" assertion.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Nor have you presented a case why it's not old fashioned nepotism.

[cali]

18. Actually, I did.

It's in the OP.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. I meant a good one.

Your argument is that she's running a successful campaing, and therefore it's not nepotism.

Seems to me Bush won the Republican nomination.

[cali]

22. You don't know what the word means

and that was not my only point.

I gather you think New Yorkers are stupid gits.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. Sure I do.

It's derived from an eastern european word meaning "nephew."

Comes from the practice of medieval Popes giving relatives positions of power in the catholic church, often the nephews or whoever would wind up Popes themselves.

More recently, it's part of systemic institutionalized racism and classism. It ensures people with good jobs and good education will keep it in the family, keeping the have-nots down.

In some cases it's illegal, and IMO, always immoral.

[cuke]

32. Were those nephews ELECTED pope?

Hillary was elected. Twice

You may want to look up nepotism in the dictionary

[La Lioness Priyanka]

21. the original question asked was what would hrc be w.out bill

its assumes that bill lead always and hillary followed.

hillary had several independent career successes before bill was successful in his political career.

[northzax]

25. You mean would she be the front runner

In the democratic nomination race for president if she hadn't married Bill? Probably not. But the he probably wouldn't have been President if he had married someone else.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. thats sybiosis, no? but the truth is we dont know.

we dont know how she would have done without bill or he without her. they are both very successful together and may have been successful apart.

she certainly had the ability, motivation and the beginning of a great career w.out him.

[northzax]

30. Without a doubt

Both would be successful to some extent. But not THIS successful. Bill would have topped out as governor of arkansas, without Hillary, his inability to keep his dick in his pants sinks him. And without him, she's not a front runner for president in 2008 sexist America.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. agreed.

[northzax]

33. You just can't know how things will break

There are probably 10,000 people born the same year as Hillary in the US with the same talent, drive and determination, who knows what choices elevate the few to that level of opportunity?

[northzax]

24. It's not nepotism

And neither was Junior. Nepotism is getting something from someone in power based on your relationship with them. Nepotism is appointing your daughter to your vacant senate seat *cough cough* frank murkowski...*

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. bush jr's presidency is not nepotism. agreed completely.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. well said.

[ProfessorGAC]

15. Well, That i Buy!

Indeed. As with most succesful relationships, there is a mutual need and mutual satisfaction of those needs.

Good call.
The Professor

[riderinthestorm]

26. Great point Cali.

There are more than a few who believe Bill is/was actually a drag on Hillary's potential! She grew up with her own powerful connections in Chicago, Illinois - not a city/state for political novices.

And she is so smart. It's strange to me how people don't recognize how powerful she is all on her own. Frankly, it's interesting to ponder who she would have become without Bill - yes, a moot question but interesting to ponder nonetheless.