Health insurers run amok??

[proud2BlibKansan]

My employer is making all of us give blood and urine to continue receiving health insurance for free. If we refuse, we have to pay $250 a month for our insurance.

My friend told me his co-worker had to sign an affidavit promising to exercise 3 times a week in order to remain on his wife's health insurance policy.

This is insane. Is it not a violation of my privacy to be forced to give blood and urine?

[OzarkDem]

1. This is crazy

an invasion of privacy.

I suspect we'll see more and more of it, as well as urine and blood tests just to get coverage, period.

[Seedersandleechers]

4. They can find

all sorts of information on you with a blood and urine sample.

[havocmom]

10. Pardon my tin foil, but combine these requirements with lots of adds for DNA ancestry

Looking for ways to target particular populations with genetic specific viruses or what?

[OzarkDem]

14. Genetic predisposition for illness

which, btw, you may never develop.

The insurance industry is either 100% confident that whoever wins in 2008 will let them keep doing this or they're shooting themselves in the foot and inviting a movement towards single payer health care.

More tinfoil: Employers and insurance companies are behaving as if they already know the outcome of the 2008 election.

[havocmom]

15. Yep, and yep to acting like they know the outcome of next election

But I still worry about a more sinister use for data collection and DNA

How many microbiologist dead under strange circumstances in the past half dozen years? How much $$ is big pharma raking in due to government policies of late?

Like telecoms making big bucks on wire taps (Comcast says they charge $1000 per tap & $750 per month to maintain)
[br />If there is money to be made going along with vile agendas, can we count on giant corporations to behave?

The world is getting crowded. Resources are playing out. Populations not amenable to handing over their resources really don't matter much to the real power in the world. I put nothing past the bastards running things.

Creating genetically targeting viruses for warfare? Seems possible.

[Seedersandleechers]

17. Yes, and not only that but

have you smoked anything? Are you pregnant? What drugs are you taking? Are you predisposed to diabetes or a heart attack? Do you drink? The list can go on and on and on.

[havocmom]

20. Since some insurers are already working to deny claims

by tracking down 'pre-existing conditions' people didn't know they had, this looks like a sure bet for profit. Take the payments until someone files a claim, then slam them for not being honest and reporting conditions they might not even know about.

What a racket.

Wish I could accept that as the only reason for collecting data on so many people. But, I think there are other reasons beyond the payoff off for insurers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Oh I know

[antigop]

2. It may be a violation of your privacy, but is it illegal? n/t

[Richard Steele]

3. "Run amok" indeed. recommended

[ThomCat]

5. unfortunately, because it's a private contract with a private company

I'm sure they can put all kinds of invasive stuff in there. Your only recourse is to refuse coverage. x(

Insurance companies are going to get more and more blatant over time, searching for any hint that you aren't healthy to kick you off their policies. They make money by selling insurance to people who won't use it. They'd be perfectly happy to see people like me disappear and die from lack of healthcare, because that would help their bottom line. Taking money is more important to them than saving lives.

[tom_paine]

6. Of course they are running amok. Imperial Amerika itself has been driven insane

by Bushie PropaInfoganda, intimidation and lies.

And yes, it is now "trickling down" to our daily lives at a faster and faster rate.

As I and everyone who has been hip to what is going on from the beginning pointed out seven years ago.

This is just another small step.

Saaaay, want to hear what people thought of this kind of stuff the last time the Bushies seized a Republic?

"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.

<snip>

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it - please try to believe me - unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, "regretted," that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these "little measures" that no "patriotic German" could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

<snip>

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even to talk, alone; you don't want to "go out of your way to make trouble." Why not? - Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, "everyone is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none."

http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html

[juno jones]

13. Thank you for that link

I've been hearing about that book for a very long time. I think I'm ready to read it now. Everyone who says this isn't a dictatorship yet because they aren't killing undesirables yet or breaking down doors 24/7 should look at this. The change was subtle; a cooling of natural public discourse, the threat of surveillance-'WE know who you are and when WE win this war we will come after YOU TOO!', among other things. It's just too similar. A few cultural differences....which is even scarier, I suspect our system is far more subtle, due to media, electronic, and technological advances.

Another quote that chilled me:
"Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?"

[midnight]

19. These are very real and understandable to what is going on

now, but who are they initially from?

[seabeyond]

7. we as a nation willingly signed away privacy and rights when we allowed

the slippery sloop to our own personal agendas. we created what we are getting and will continue to be worse.

[depakid]

8. You no longer have a right to privacy

Reagan along with moralizing sell out Dems made sure of that back in the 1980's.

A lot us knew back then that drug testing without cause was a slippery slop- but very few would listen.

The war on drugs, you see.

[Javaman]

9. Simthers: ah, Mr. Burns, do you want me to get rid of these jars of urine?

Mr Burns: Hmmm, better hold on to those.

[kdmorris]

11. Well, this year, my company

"will hire an outside auditor to audit the dependents on our health insurance policy to determine if they are allowed". If they decide that they are illegal dependents (as in, an 18 year old who doesn't actually live with you, but has no health insurance outside of yours (and isn't a student) who you keep on your plan until she's 19 anyway), you will be charged with insurance fraud and terminated from your employment.

So, they are trying to cover LESS people, not more.

[The2ndWheel]

12. Nothing comes for free

I'd say get used to it. We live in an information generated world, and that's not just for the rabble. There is a goal of predictable perfection at play here. It comes from both corporation and government. As both institutions own more of life, you have little choice. You will be molded into the image of one or both of them(if there is still any difference between the two).

[havocmom]

16. Insurance benefits are NOT free. They are part of compensation for time, work, skills

The corporations are starting to act like they are entitled to all our time, work, skills for just about free.

Benefits we receive are part of compensation.

[The2ndWheel]

26. We've let that happen

Being interchangeable cogs and all. That's the beauty of universality. There is no diversity. There is no anywhere. That works for the corporation because they're able to plug in the next worker drone unit easily. That works for the government because it's an uninterrupted stream of money.

Of course the corporation is entitled to your time, work, and skills. The same way the government is entitled to some portion of the money you earn from the corporation that is entitled to your time, work, and skills.

Your time is not your time. Your work is not your work. Your skills are not your skills. You are not yours.

"In the past the man has been first; in the future the system must be first."

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1911taylor.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. My health insurance is free

My employer pays 100% of the premiums.

[The2ndWheel]

29. So are they or are they not making you give blood and urine?

It may have been free in regards to those green tinted pieces of paper, but now they're able to do whatever they want with you.

You could always walk away, or fight them, but there would be risk in that either way.

I guess it all depends on what kind of world we want. One of submission, or one of chance. Can't have both.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. I'll take one with less authoritarianism

[havocmom]

40. Your insurance is part of the renumeration for your services

It is not free, it is part of the deal you and your employer strike for your services/work.

Think about it. If you quit, do they keep your insurance for you? No, it is part of the employment arrangement.

You may not pay premiums, but you have to show up for work. Not free. Part of your compensation.

[guruoo]

18. "...advanced forms of biological warfare that can 'target' specific genotypes...

may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool."

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

[PA Democrat]

23. I'll bet they are not doing it out of any "concern" for the health of the insured,

but rather they plan to use this policy to boost their profits. Refuse to supply blood and urine samples, and they'll charge you more. But I'll bet that if you do give then the samples and they find something they don't like, such as high cholesterol, proof of smoking, etc. that they'll also charge you more. Either way it stinks. Do you belong to a union? If so, do they have any input?

[Atman]

24. All due respect, your employer's purpose is not to provide you with a job

Or with insurance, for that matter. Your employer started a business with which he hoped to make money so he could buy his own insurance and help his own family.

I agree that it's invasive and rude and invades your privacy. But you have the right to say no. Do you want to know how much my wife pays for health insurance? You'd be jumping even at $250.

The point is, drug using employees cost the company money (especially if they're caught, and the employer has to pay for expensive rehab). Obese employees can cost the company money, as well, and have documented higher incidences of sick days. He'll, I'd sign an affidavit saying I'd exercise three times a week. Who is monitoring you? What is exercise? It's cheaper than $250.

I know mine isn't a popular position, but I'm not saying I like or necessarily agree with your employer. I'm just saying, I'm not sure you can decry a privacy violation; you work for him, he will pay for you insurance if he has a reasonable expectation that you take care of yourself. Isn't that what we're always bitching about in the American system, is that we only treat people AFTER their sick, instead of preventing illness in the first place?

:shrug:

.

[Solon]

25. If the insurance company or employer was actually concerned with health...

then they would mandate yearly checkups, AND pay for it. It sounds like, in this case, a trolling for pre-existing conditions, not to look after your health, but to deny you coverage for when those conditions actually become a problem.

[Atman]

28. Could be that they're trolling

I don't really know, but it's certainly a valid point. BTW, my insurance pays for yearly check-ups. I thought that was fairly normal.

.

[Solon]

30. Depends on policies of the insurance companies...

The last time I had insurance, it was a 20% co-pay for "normal" doctor visits, limited to two such visits a year, a deduct of about 2,500 dollars, and a max limit of 10,000 dollars of catastrophic coverage. The doctor visits were limited to those on their list, of course.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. As a self-employed person, I have a $5000 deductible for

the only health insurance whose premiums I can afford.

I still have to pay 20% OVER the deducible.

As far as I can see, this piss-poor policy has only two advantages:

1. I get a slight discount from their preferred providers, even before meeting my deductible

2. If I ever become seriously ill, bankruptcy will overtake me slightly later than it would otherwise.

Every month when that premium is deducted from my bank account, I feel tempted to call the insurance company up and tell them where they can stuff their hypocrisy about "being concerned about every member's health."

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. I am a teacher

My employer didn't start a business to make a profit.

[Atman]

36. Is your employer asking for blood and urine?

If not, then I guess you don't fit into this scenario.

.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. I started this thread

So, yes.

[Atman]

38. LOL! Sorry

So you did...my bad. I lost track.

.

[lovuian]

27. Yes they are changing the rules and making demands

Insurance companies are the biggest fraud that hit America

[yellowdogintexas]

32. are you working for a medium small to small company. The smaller the group

the harder to find affordable coverage of any kind. They have found a plan that they can afford if they can identify the risks up front. Also, if you are discovered to have say diabetes previously undiagnosed, then you can be ridered for care for the number of months your state laws allow and this does vary significantly from state to state.

The larger the group, the less this can be allowed to apply. When you go to work for a megaemployer, you just sign up for benefits, pick the plan you want from the ones offered and that is that. You can't be even reviewed for pre existings in most states unless you have been without coverage for more than 60 days.

example: lets say I leave my current job and am moving to another one. I have a history of something chronic or serious that may recur. My new employer won't start my coverage until I have been employed 90 days. The old coverage will end with my last day at old employer. To avoid any risk of pre existing or issues with my old scary diagnosis within the first 6 months of my new plan, I would need to take out one month of COBRA. That's all. If on the other hand, my new coverage begins within 60 days I wouldn't have to do anything because the 60 day window against any investigation of my medical history is still intact. If I did not have any prior coverage and had not been treated for any chronic conditions already known to me within 6 months of my hire date, there still would not be an issue in most states.

The smaller employers though get stuck with fewer and fewer options for their employees and families. So carrier comes up with ingenious plan to guarantee the risk the group can initially represent.

Spent a great many years working for a company that administered small group and individual plans; they are a whole different breed from the large group plans.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. I work for a school district

5th largest employer in the metropolitan area

[yellowdogintexas]

44. hmm. I know that the ISD in our area has had traditionally lousy

insurance. They use a self insured plan, which means they get to write the rules, and they do try to keep high risk employees out. Self insured plans can take more liberties with who they include and don't include because they are making the rules. Not subject to the group rules.

I had forgotten about self insured plans, they are a whole 'nuther breed of coverage.

[bvar22]

39. Yes! America needs MORE of this!!!

Bigger, Richer, more powerful FOR PROFIT Health Insurance Companies.
Lets make it MANDATORY, and divert taxpayer Dollars into their pockets to pay for the poor!

Vote Hillary 2008!

[ikojo]

41. Who is your insurance carrier?

I work for an HMO and have never heard of something like this.

Beginning in January my sister must pay an additional $15 a month on her insurance because her husband smokes.

[superkia]

42. Support a candidate that wants to take on the health insurers.

Or support one who wont and we can all shut up and accept the choices we make as voters. Don't like the patriot act, support a candidate that is against it and so on. We are given choices and we seem to always pick the bad ones and complain like its someone else's fault.

I hate the insurance industry the way it is and I will make sure they know it by my primary vote. Yes it should be an invasion of your privacy but obviously we have no representation in politics that are willing to take on the insurance thugs and our choices of candidates that will are slim but thats where my votes going, I am sick of the corporations raping us for profits as we all struggle in our everyday lives. I am done with it, I will only support someone that supports me from now on, I am done with just accepting who the media decides is best for me.

[Canuckistanian]

43. Sounds like privacy now has a price

And in the end, the only people WITH privacy are the ones who can afford it.

The rest of us can go suck an egg.