Joe Torre "insulted" he was only offered $5,000,000 for a year's contract

[RiverStone]

He quit.

I hope Joe does not cry too much in his beer, given that he just finished making $19.2 million over the past 3 years. I figure we won't be seeing him in the unemployment line anytime soon.

So when the New York Yankees offered him a one-year contract with a hefty paycut, performance-based bonuses — and no room to negotiate — he was insulted and figured he had no choice but to walk away.

“The fact that somebody is reducing your salary is just telling me they're not satisfied with what you're doing,” Torre said Friday at a packed news conference. “There really was no negotiation involved. I was hoping there would be, but there wasn't.

<snip>

The 67-year-old Torre turned down a $5 million, one-year contract — $2.5 million less than he made this season, when the Yankees failed to make it past the first round of the playoffs for the third straight year.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2003962423_webtorre19.html

Within the world of astronomical, obscene, and grotesque salaries that make up MLB (and pro-sports in general), Torre probably did have a reason to feel insulted after 12 winning seasons which included 4 World series titles. And no baseball fan will be jumping on owner George Steinbrenner's side either - George probably is at the pinnacle for greedy and over zealous owners in ALL of pro sports.

The very sad irony in all of this is how anybody could feel slighted by a mere 5 million dollars a year contract?!!! He would have received another 3 mil if the Yanks reached the WS in 08.

I think about all the teachers, social workers, college professors, police officers, firefighters, paramedics, and others in service professions that risk life and limb or who give 100% to teach and influence and inspire the very life direction of today's youth. How many of them would feel dissed by a salary of 5mil, or 1/10 of that at 500K per year? In reality, most make 1/100th of that offer per year and somehow "get by" on 50K a year.

Joe Torre is no more or less greedy then other managers in Pro-sports; and his salary is pocket change compared to A-Rod's close to $23,000,000 he got in 2007 (how much is that per bat?). It just speaks to the warped reality that makes up the business of pro sports.

I can't even wrap my mind around that much money...and I work in Education.

Pretty fucked up priorities eh?


p.s. And BTW, I'm a Mariners fan - don't ask me how much they re-signed Ichiro for! :crazy:




edit: kant spel

[H2O Man]

1. He was being asked

to train the next guy to take over. I think that he should have done it. $5 million is a lot of money.

[JackRiddler]

24. I bet the book deal will be double that...

Wonder what the ghost writer will get, though? It would be best to have it out in time for Spring Training '08.

[Kagemusha]

2. Excuse me, and I mean this politely, but... would any union worker accept this quietly?

Let's say you're being paid $25/hour. Your employer comes to your union and suggests that everyone at your level is reduced to $18/hour with incentive packages that provide some bonuses for achieving superhuman results. Would you regard this as a polite offer?

[WinkyDink]

23. Let's be real; we're not talking PERCENTAGES. FIVE MILLION is insanely high, no matter WHAT last

year's salary was.

I don't think ANY UNION MEMBER would turn down $5 MILLION, do you????

[Kagemusha]

29. What if the union member had a net worth of say, $50 million?

He doesn't need the money, but he has pride in his work, and, knowing he doesn't need the money, the employer offers him $18 an hour instead of $25... with an incentive package, and the promise of leaks to the media about his lack of performance if he doesn't deliver anything less than the Second Coming.

It's not just about the money. Like: Knowing that management knocked his pay down, can relieve him from his duties at any time, and that management is looking for any excuse to take him out, how can Torre coach a bunch of multi-millionaires, a good many of which are making a hell of a lot more than he is? Given what he's earned over his coaching career, does he need to go to work every day with a bull's eye painted onto his back?

And I have a family member who is leaving such a position (edit: bull's eye, not $5m) right now. I would not wish such situations on anyone.

[muntrv]

3. He sounds like a few CEOs, who think they're entitled to hundreds of millions

of dollars per year.

[flvegan]

4. I'd have told Egobrenner to go fuck himself when he said he'd fire me if we lost

before the game.

Yeah, like Torre NEEDS that moron. George insulted the shit outta Torre before the first pitch. Good luck, Yanks. You're gonna need it. A-Rod can only do so much. Hey, maybe he can manage, too?

[SeattleGirl]

8. So would I.

I think Egobrenner finally shot himself in the foot.

[JackRiddler]

25. Yes, but...

contractually he was still in the organization, under its rules.

Cash in the last check, then your freedom of speech is restored.

Negotiate $11 million book deal.

Have it out by spring training.

Voila.

[spanone]

5. 5 mil probably ain't enough to put up with steinbrenner's shit

yea, sports really is just like show business, they're in the business of selling tickets, nothing else. and they make shitloads of money. priorities are screwy.

[rinsd]

6. What worker in the world should take a paycut when doing their job successfully?

Are you willing to take a 20% paycut with the promise you'll receive a 10% raise if your company reaches the highest point it can?

Sorry, I can't blame Joe and it was an insult considering his years of diligent service that turned the Yankees into one of the most marketable brands in the world and made the Steinbrenners a huge amount of money.

[renie408]

9. The Yankees have made the playoffs for twelve straight years. Torre was doing his job.

I don't blame him either. Steinbrenner is an ass. If the money is there, Torre should get his fair share.

[renie408]

7. I hate that comparison.

I really am sick of that "oh we don't pay schoolteachers enough, yet goober ball players get millions". Goober ball players GENERATE millions. If you are really all that upset about the disparity between what goober ball players and teachers make, quit being a Mariners fan. Don't watch or encourage any kind of sports. Because the fans pay the salaries.

[RiverStone]

11. Fans pay the teachers salaries too

At least those that pay taxes, vote for school levy's, and education funding percentage relative to a state budget.

My point is simply that relative worth in pro sports is being defined ONLY in TERMS of revenue generated. There is far less value placed on the things that are less tangible in our world. Which is more important: batting avg. vs your kids grade point avg.?
That which holds the most "real worth" is offered the least real compensation.

I see nothing changing.

I do see Joe whining about being offered "just" 5mil a year as simply a sign of the times. A reflection of our society. I offer no fix. It just seems crazy that he will walk away (insulted at that) for a contract worth more than many of us will make in a lifetime (or a few lifetimes).

Yep, I'm a Mariners fan (could not write such an OP without full disclosure) - but I don't attend games and mostly catch them on the radio --- if I'm not otherwise doing something fun and outdoorsy.

[Jackpine Radical]

10. It would really piss me off to if they only offered me 5 mil.

Gad, how humiliating!

[hadrons]

12. Get off the soapbox, it has nothing to do with just getting "a mere $5 million"

Torre didn't turn down the contract for the money, but because the contract was structured in a way in which he would have been a lame duck in the clubhouse ... the deal offered no job security and rumors of him being replace would start with the first three game losing streak.

Torre kept the team together and in the playoffs because the players knew he would be there at the end of the season.

[RiverStone]

13. How ever one spins it - Greed Wins.

I'd love it if the team with the LOWEST annual payroll - which I think is the FLA Marlins (per Google) kicked the team with the highest payroll out of playoff contention! Or a team with the lowest market share of audience kicking a team in a HUGE market - that would piss off the advertisers.

My point with this entire OP simply is we live in a society with fuck-up priorities that creates sympathy for a fellow who got dissed being offered a mere 5 million per year. All folks want to focus on is how George S. is a total ass-greedy-unappreciative-bastard (which he is of course). But no one hardly questions what the fuck a baseball manager is doing making 5 mil when firefighters make 1/100th of that. Thats the point I was trying to make.

Looks like I'm in the minority position on this thread...
Or I'm not doing a good job articulating a view at the tired end of my meager salaried work week. It just kind of pissed me off to read of Joe's woes. I'd settle for that problem.


peace~:)

And have a fun weekend!

[JackRiddler]

26. In this case, I doubt it.

He's like 71, probably worth $30 mil if he invested even half-wisely, and what amount of money would you have to offer him to resist the pleasure of telling Steinbrenner to shove it?

[hughee99]

31. What is special about having the lowest payroll?

Now granted I can only seem to find revenue information from 2005 and payroll information from 2007, but ASSUMING the numbers are roughly in line , the Yankees brought in about 277 Million and spent about $195M on their players, the Red Sox brought in about 205 million and spent $143M on players (both around 70% reinvested in the team), meanwhile the Devil Rays brought in over $100M and spent about $25M on players, the Nationals took in 145M (about as much as the Indians, Diamondbacks, Rockies or Tigers who all spent a good bit more and have some success to show for it) and only spent $37M on players (about 25% reinvested).

Some of the highest payroll teams are at least using the money to try to improve the product the fans are paying for. Some of the lower revenue teams are not reinvesting the fans' money, putting a shitty team on the field, ripping off the fans and enriching the owners. That is one of the biggest issues with revenue sharing in MLB. The big market owners were pissed at the thought of having to share their profits with smaller market teams if there wasn't some sort of guarantee that the money would be spent trying to improve their teams. Why should the Yankees owner have to give 10% of his revenue to the Devil Rays owner if he's just going to pocket the money? Based on the numbers I have, both owners have about $70M left after paying their players.

Revenues from 2005
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/33/Revenues_1.html

Payroll from 2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_teams_by_payroll

Wouldn't greed also win if the owner who keeps most of the money for himself gets a World Series ring?

[Berry Cool]

33. True, but some of the lowest payroll teams use the money to try to improve the product also.

The difference is in their approach. They focus on growing the best farm players they can and bringing them up through the system. rather than on shopping for expensive superstar free agents. And sometimes, it works.

[Berry Cool]

32. For the record, the Tampa Bay Devil Rays had the lowest payroll this year

and you see what they got for it.

However, the Indians knocked out the Yankees and their payroll is the eighth lowest. And the Rockies' payroll is the sixth lowest. So if the Indians make it to the Series, you will be seeing two of the lowest-payrolled teams ever competing for the championship. If the Rex Sox make it, it will be the second-highest payroll vs. the sixth lowest.

[TimBean]

14. You could say teachers are overpaid

When compared to the rest of the world. 1000/yr would be condsidered amazing by a large portion of the world. A teacher's yearly salary?? That takes a lifetime to earn. Some people need to see beyond themeselves.

[Rhythm and Blue]

15. Way to forget about cost of living. nt

[pintobean]

18. Right.

A mud house doesn't cost shit.

[Rhythm and Blue]

19. I lived in Shanghai for a year between junior and senior years of college.

Shanghai--big city, tall skyscrapers, lots of people, the occasional Rolls-Royce gliding by. I had a friend working for the State dept., pulling in just under $70k/yr. He lived like a millionaire. Penthouse, nice car, fancy toys, etc.

When people are poor, necessities are cheap. On the flipside, when necessities are cheap, those with money can put all of it towards luxuries.

[pintobean]

20. I've seen poor.

Most people in the U.S. don't know what poor is. Cheap is a matter of perspective. If someone has nothing, the cost of necessities is completely irrelevant.

[Rhythm and Blue]

21. Agreed nt

[TimBean]

22. Yep

Americans have it real good compared to the dirt poorness of much of the world.

[AZBlue]

16. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Rhythm and Blue]

17. Screw him, and screw the Yankees.

Yankees fans and management: Alex Rodriguez is the best player in baseball today, and Texas is literally paying you to play him. He costs you less than Clemens, Jeter, or Giambi. Yet you boo him when he has a bad week, and yawn when he wins MVPs.

Joe Torre has led you to the postseason every year he has been manager, and has brought you four World Series rings. To suggest that he needs "motivation" to do better is flagrantly stupid. For God's sakes, no team has better than a 25% chance of winning the World Series once they make the postseason. The "average" postseason team (which is itself one of the four best in the league each year) has a 12.5% chance. Threatening to fire him for losing in a few series is incredibly arrogant, and he should have refused to hear your offer just for that.

-------

Joe Torre: You are paid $7,000,000 to literally sit on your ass and watch people win games for you. You have three jobs: fill out lineup cards, choose when to bring in relievers, and keep your players motivated. You are mediocre at the first two and are excellent at the third. However, you are not $7,000,000 worth of excellent. A cheap motivational speaker brought in from the conference room of the local Holiday Inn could do your job. By suggesting that $5,000,000 is "an insult," you are saying that the uniform, fans, wins, and pride mean less to you than cash. If it's all business to you, I don't see where you get off bashing them for playing the same damn game.

[Occulus]

27. This is reason #1 why I no longer watch MLB

and haven't since the players' strike.

There are people constantly hungry in this country, people who are dying because they can't afford medical care, people shivering in the cold or burning up in the sun because they don't have a home, people who are one broken leg or arm away from missing rent and getting turned onto the street, and these assholes are (pardon me) bitching and moaning over how many millions they get paid.

These assholes- and they ARE assholes- are (pardon me) being shamelessly self-entitled sons of bitches, and I hope they all lose every last penny they have. If the epidemic of doping in pro sports is any indication, they damned well should.

I used to be a baseball fan, and my very first thought, when I heard of the strike, was "what in all creation are they complaining about??"

Greed. That's what it is, and that's all it is. May his house all his houses burn to the ground while they sit empty.

[JackRiddler]

28. It wasn't the contract -

It was the opportunity to slam the door on George and live out a swank retirement.

BTW - In this thread it's funny watching the baseball fans as against the others, talking past each other like ghosts on different vibrational planes.

[RiverStone]

34. ...like ghosts on different vibrational planes

I like that!

Great observation too JackRiddler.

Sometimes OP's are like knuckle-ball pitches, ya never know what you'll get! :hi:

[cboy4]

30. Torre told Steinbrenner to shove it. He fired the owner.

Joe was offered an insulting pay cut and he said no.

That's awesome.

[book_worm]

35. so after what? 11 pennets and 5 World Series he was asked to take a pay cut

his contract was for one year and any option for 2009 would be based on the Yankees getting to the World Series. I'd have been insulted too after all he had done for the ball club.