Setting Up for Martial Law...Chertoff threatens Americans

[rfranklin]

IEDs seen as a rising threat within U.S.
Chertoff vows to step up planning for bombs that have ravaged Iraq
The Washington Post
By Spencer S. Hsu and Mary Beth Sheridan

Updated: 12:28 a.m. ET Oct 20, 2007
WASHINGTON - The Department of Homeland Security and the FBI agree that the homemade explosive devices that have wreaked havoc in Iraq pose a rising threat to the United States. But lawmakers and first responders say the Bush administration has been slow to devise a strategy for countering the weapons and has not provided adequate money and training for a concerted national effort.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, who told the Senate last month that such bombs are terrorists' "weapon of choice," said yesterday at a local meeting that President Bush will soon issue a blueprint for countering the threat of improvised explosive devices, or IEDs.

-more-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21386918/

I believe that the Bush junta will not relinquish their unitary power next year. There will be another "Al Qaeda" attack and all the dictator powers that have been set up will be activated. I keep thinking that there is basically nothing that we can do about it. The regular "law enforcement" officers will probably go along with it because most of them are enamored with crisis situations that allow to use the tools of the trade. If they don't cooperate with the takeover, then there are always the Blackwater mercernaries to commit some atrocities that will scare the shit out of the general populace and cow them into submission. Will Americans rise up and revolt? I think not. I believe that the same sceneario that created the Nazi Reich will take place right here in the U.S.A.

[kedrys]

1. I believe the same thing

which is why we're making plans to leave the country. I am NOT going to be the last guy on the roof watching the last helicopter take off. :mad:

[cali]

2. I don't buy that you could impose martial law

in any kind of effective way, in the U.S.

[Subdivisions]

3. Hi cali. Could you elaborate please? n/t

[cali]

5. Yes.

We're a large country, bot geographically speaking and population wise. There are 300 million Americans, and many of them are armed There are thousands and thousands of miles of sparsely populated border and coast line. Many governors would not go along and not allow the National Guard to by utilized in any attempt at martial law. The armed forces is overextended, and couldn't possibly subdue a population this large, while otherwise occupied in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

9. You forget Blackwater.

*bush's private stormtrooper army will do its best for its master. They have no morals and no qualms- they are arrogant enough to believe themselves above the law even when it concerns our own military.

And I guarantee they are better armed than you and I...

[cali]

12. Blackwater simply doesn't have the troops. n/t

[ArbustoBuster]

29. Machiavelli had personal experience with mercenaries.

His advice for a leader who would retain his power: Don't ever use mercenaries. They work for pay, and fold when really up against a wall. Also, your opponent can outbid you and take your mercenaries away.

[kineneb]

39. you know this & I know this, but does BushCo?

I think this falls under the "didn't study history" category. I just finished reading my copy of The Prince... even by 16th century Italian standards the BushCo has really blown it.

[me b zola]

41. How did that work out in New Orleans?

Blackwater took away the people's weapons, guarded the property of rich people, and killed/murdered poor people. Too bad those poor people didn't have the funds to buy off the blackwater thugs.

[martymar64]

43. In terms of Blackwater's effectiveness

New Orleans is a poor example. NO is a city with easily closable borders being limited on many sides by Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River and lots of bayous. It could be shut down at the few available choke points. That would not work for cities like Atlanta or Dallas or Denver or Los Angeles or Chicago or Minneapolis/St Paul that don't have the same geographic limitations. Police forces may be able to control small pockets but the LA riots proved that their effectiveness is extremely limited if enough people get pissed off and go for their guns.
Blackwater may be able to control access to one city but not all of them and they can forget about controlling the countryside. They simply do not have enough forces to counter an angry armed populace. If places like the mountainous tribal areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan can't be controlled by US troops, there's no hope of them trying to control the Rockies or the Sierras or the Cascades.

[bbgrunt]

18. you also forget that B* has proclaimed that he can hijack the Nat'l guard from state control

whenever he decides there is an "emergency".

[John Q. Citizen]

22. Some points. Declaring a State of Emergency and not reliquishing power doesn't require

declaring nationwide martial law.

Martial Law has been declared in the past in the US, but in small specific geographic locations. Why do you imagine that martial law would be declared nationwide in the event of a suspension of elections?

The 2000 elections were stolen with no response at all from the citizen of this country. Why would bush staying in power provoke a response? And with no response, why would martial law be declared nationwide?

[davekriss]

37. I think Bush would have an impossibly difficult time...

...staying in power at 24% approval rating. It would be bad for business. The powers that stand behind the symbol (Bush) would not let that happen. Better to pump money into successor candidates likely to continue with their agenda. It's still cheaper to maintain the illusion of democracy than run an open totalitarian state.

[John Q. Citizen]

42. Yes, I agree, and of course this is what Mexico did/does. And it's far more

likely that any disruption in elections would be used on a regional basis to insure a congress that will comply with a chosen successor.

Still, with the way things have come down, it appears that the powers that be like having a little insurance in the form of the ability to suspend basic rights as need be.

[Emit]

10. cali,

Did you see this last night?


Jeremy Scahill - Part2
"I think we're in the midst of the most radical privatization in our nation's history," Scahill explains to Bill Moyers. "We of course see it in schools. We see it in the health care system, in prisons. And now, we're seeing it full blown in the war machine."

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10192007/watch2.html

Eric Prince sent in Blackwater down to New Orleans -- with no gov't approval. Only a few days later did the contract through Homeland Security come through. Listen to Scahill and find out the scoop on that -- how many were down there, what their roles were, how much they were paid.

There was a discussion on it last night:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2091964

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. That was a great show

Erik Prince is a monster.

[cali]

13. Hi, Emit.

You know I don't do TV. But I did read Scahill's interview with Amy Goodman, and I'll see if Moyers puts out a transcript. None the less, I don't think my basic points are negated by Blackwater's nefarious existence: There simply aren't enough of them to impose martial law on 300 million people in a country this size.

[Emit]

14. You can watch it on line at the first link there in my post above

Scahill explains how many BW folks were there in New Orleans -- and he also explains how BW and others recruit - by paying high salaries and recruiting from the military.

Bill Moyers asks about Martial Law -- and asks how far fetched that would be. Scahill explains about "how the future might look" and then proceeds to discuss Blackwater, 180 men in New Orleans, how they got there before FEMA by Prince's own decision, how intimidating they were, how they had 600 men from TX to Mississippi, BW was paid $240,000 day, and the NW men being paid $350 per day plus a per diem.

Then he talked about Israeli commandos having been paid by a wealthy business man -- a company called Instinctive Shooting International -- how intimidating they were, how they tapped on their automatic weapons and told Scahill how afraid US civilians are of seeing them (unlike the Palesitinians who are used to seeing them), he then explains how the poor get treated like thieves and the wealthy hires their own commandos, "In a National Emergency ... The poor drown ... the rich bring in their mercernaries..."

edited for clarity

[Mrs. Overall]

17. One of the most appalling things about Blackwater and New Orleans that seems to be forgotten

is that those New Orleans citizens who were still trying to get water and supplies in spite of the curfew (enforced by Blackwater), were referred to by the media (CNN, MSNBC, FOX, etc...) as "insurgents." I still can't believe more wasn't made of the fact that US media referred to US citizens trying to get life saving supplies as "insurgents."

[BeHereNow]

28. Got a bank account?

They can flip a switch and leave you
with nothing.
Most people need to eat.
Prepare for Techno Martial Law.
You resist?
They simply cut you off.
BHN

[earth mom]

32. Those who scoff at this will continue to do so until the day they get a very rude wake up call. nt

[madokie]

4. nothing like going thru the day scared shitless

I so want to hope that isn't true but my better sense tells me it is. We as a country are almost to the point where it will be very painful for us to ever return to our Constitution which we will do at some point. I just wish it would be now so as to get it over with and before the monster gets any bigger, the damage this criminal crew is causing grows exponentially by deed

[Beerboy]

6. It doesn't really make much of a difference whether

the Nazi government that oppresses every American citizen sets off the bomb or blames some far-flung agency in their entrenched bureaucracy. If the U.S. Govt sez it, it's a lie. The U.S. government aims to exterminate every living person, they're only awaiting the proper pretext to make it seem "legal". These are the good-old-days, you won't be allowed for much longer to writ

[CJCRANE]

7. If the neocons implement

martial law they won't call it that and most people won't notice it's happened
(just like the set-up on 9/11 and the election shenannigans).

I hope the Clintons have enough allies in the bureaucracy/military to stop Bush-Cheney pulling a fast one (or most likely made an amnesty deal with them so as allow a change-over of power).

[no_hypocrisy]

15. I agree. First, everything done will be qualified with "it's temporary, maybe a few days"

which will be extended into "only a week", "only one more week", etc.

Then there will be benign paternalistic terms such as "curfew", "roadchecks", "identification papers" to show where you live and where you're going, "comfort stations", and so forth.

And to me, the benign terms will scare me more than the accurate words to describe the new present tense.

[Whoa_Nelly]

8. The NSPD 51 is just part and parcel of setting the stage for that scenario

http://winnipeg.indymedia.org/item.php?5284S

And when that was issued this summer, it barely caused a ripple around the nation, much less the world.

It is most fascist shift/move so far to date by the Bush/PNAC Junta.

[loudsue]

21. I sure noticed it, Nelly....and I kicked & screamed at the time.

In fact, I think there were a LOT of DUers who went ballistic over this. What in the hell are our representatives doing?

:kick:

[kelliebrat]

23. HOLY CRAP

:wow:I never heard anything about this. I try to follow all this stuff pretty closely, but damn if this just hit me in the face. That SOB is really trying to turn my country into his own 'empire'

[Whoa_Nelly]

24. Welcome to DU, kelliebrat!

:hi:

[kelliebrat]

26. Thank you very much

I'm very glad to be here!:hi:

[Individualist]

16. K&R

[RestoreGore]

19. I put nothing past them

Nothing.

[kelliebrat]

20. I soooo dont want to think this could happen but

after all the shit that's been done in the last 6 years, it scares the hell out of me to think about it. What scares me the most is it wont surprise me if it does happen.

[grasswire]

25. they'd have to do a gun grab first, I think

And if a gun grab is attempted, the militia will start coming down from the hills.

[BeHereNow]

36. They don't need a gun-grab; your bank account and assets will do nicely.

As I posted upthread- all they need to do is
electronically dismiss you from the game.
Technology, the new "round-up."
BHN

[kickysnana]

27. Why is an Israeli head of HS? Where is the outrage? n/t

[blues90]

30. I tend to agree and I'll tell you why .

people seen to look at martial law as a one step takeover . But it would happen in small areas a bit at a time , this process instills fear in others that hear about this and this in turn will cause many people to follow the rules without resistence .

It would not take thousands of police or blackwater to do this , just a bit at a time . Look how fear spread across the country after 9/11 and look how people give up all rights just to fly .

It's a test , lets see how many and what it would take to control the masses and they are doing a damn good job of this . Certainly some people will resist and being out gunned will be taken away . It's one bit at a time not all at once , this is what people seem to miss .

This is also how they keep protestors in line with free speech zones and that threat hovering in ones mind .

Most people just won't resist of react if they fear they will be taken away too , look at the taser thing with the student and Kerry . Look how people see someone being beaten or raped and just look the other way , it's all fear based control .

[earth mom]

31. I wonder how many on DU think that another LIHOP/MIHOP is gonna catapult us into a DictatorTOTship?

:tinfoilhat:

* is loving being the "decider" too much to EVER give it up! :scared:

[BeHereNow]

33. Those who have been paying attention to all the signing orders KNOW

what's planned.
I know, you know.
BHN

[earth mom]

38. Looks like it's already here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2094554

:cry:

[Flabbergasted]

34. What you're failing to ask is: What gain is there to declaring martial law

There is a huge gain in fear.

There is no indication at all that any part of their foreign policy will not be carried out to its conclusion. Bush only needs to attack Iran and leave it to Clinton or Giuliani. He'll retire to his ranch and roast weenies.

Bush will not declare martial law unless there is a revolt and then only for a short time till order is restored.

Corporations have a massive stake in keeping this country profitable. Martial law hurts the bottom line.

[Disturbed]

35. Al Q has been given it's opportunity.

Attack within Amerika again & the democratic representative Republic will be destroyed.
Will al Q. be able to launch again?

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. My lord... they are really going to do it!

Which of course many of us have been sayingfor a while!

When it finally happens we will still have deniers saying it could not be that bad

On edit, Blackwater is for where cops and military don't play

By the way those will be more widespread than you think

I know...

And as is... when it happens, chances are troops wil hardly be required. People will just go on with life