Tired Of Being PLAYED And Taken Advantage Of!

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

THAT is why I'm not going to vote for President next November.

THAT is why I see myself, if I have the means....living outside the U.S. in my later years.

THAT is why I feel the people CONTROLLING and supposedly "leading" our party, don't seem to have any clothes either.

I see the Fucking GAME, I see the DECEIT. I'm SICK AND TIRED of cowering and watching as they act like a bunch of WEASELS!

The truth is, THEY DON'T CARE. They know what the mood is, and they feel as if, since the repubs are so TERRIBLY FRAUDULENT and AWFUL, that they are the Only Alternative.

Well....I got news for them. I AIN'T SUPPORTING YOU, JUST BECAUSE THERE'S NO ALTERNATIVE. FUCK THAT SHIT!!

I'd rather be single, than have to "choose" between 2 POOR RELATIONSHIPS. No, I don't want a "relationship" with a repub again, but I sure as hell don't want a Corporate, Monarchist, Phony, Elitist Ruler, just because SHE happens to be my only choice.

This country is Fucked, and I'll be damned if I'm going to contribute to it's demise, by following a cult leader in a quasi-monarchy.

[Breeze54]

1. So, what country are you moving to?

Any idea's? Plans?

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

8. Would Have To Be Somewhere In Europe

It is obviously a big step, but I feel like I'm still at an age, where it's something I can consider. I'm single, so other than family & friends, I don't have a wife and child to consider at the moment.

I guess if the reality is, that other countries are also lacking, then I guess it's a Catch 22. I'm just thinking the facade that is "democracy," is slowly fading from this country, and so any stature we once had as a desirable place to call home, is quickly vanishing as well.

[DFW]

51. I'm in Europe most of the time (like now)--there are always 2 sides

And I can tell you one thing: some things are better, some are not.

In Germany, probably the most pacifist of all big nations here,
you have to tell the local police when you move into their town,
tell them when you move out, and tell them where you are moving,
and don't think other European nations are mich freer. Just because
they take better care of their people does not mean they do not
have their down sides. If you think America has bad bureaucracy,
wait til you get here.

I had a German friend on the far left who once visited me in the USA before
I was stationed here full time, and he asked about how you registered
your residence with the police in the USA. I explained that you didn't.
If you move, you leave a forwarding address with the post office if you
want to be found, and don't if you don't. He couldn't believe our "freedom."

The grass is always greener, take it from one who has one foot squarely back
home in the USA and one firmly planted here in Europe. It's cool to settle here,
but make sure you know all the rules before playing this game. You might not
like them all, and I can speak most of the languages spoken here, so I had
a head start. Some Americans who move here fit in, but plenty go nuts with
all the rules, and return in disappointment. Check out the territory before
you take a step like that. And get a good supply of umbrellas, too.

[MADem]

2. Well, the GOP got to you, didn't they!! If everyone could get fed up as easily as

you, their voter suppression activities would be easy-peasy!!

Enjoy not being a part of the solution!!! That professional whining biz, though, that'll take you only so far and no further....

Don't forget to take your ball when you go home!

:eyes:

[monktonman]

5. Nothing but insults and put downs.

how about a word of encouragement every once in awhile.
Would that be so bad?
Replies like yours only reinforce the OP's bad feelings.

[MADem]

6. How about reading the forum rules, whydoncha, before you shoot off your mouth?

This is a forum for DEMOCRATS and other progressives who SUPPORT DEMOCRATS in elections.

It's not a forum for whiners, insulters of Democrats, Good Bye Cruel Worlders, and attention seeking "they're all the same" pouters and foot stompers who tear down the party. Those types ARE gonna get their asses handed to them, because they 'd have spared themselves the angst-ridden disappointment if they'd simply read the fucking rules in the first place before getting on the Crybaby Train.

I don't "encourage" people who shit on Democrats. Neither should you.

And I could care LESS about the "OP's bad feelings." He can be a part of the problem--and that's the path he has chosen, to be one of the great, unwashed apathetic morons, like we see on Leno's JAYWALKING--or he can get off his ass, work for a candidate, GOTV, and oh, yeah...VOTE.

Would THAT be so bad?

Replies like YOURS only reinforce the sad reality that some people really do NOT get it. You've got three choices: Lead, follow or get out of the way.

[monktonman]

9. Yes that sa brilliant display of leadership!

I dont agree with everything everyone says.
But I dont bully them when I think they're wrong.
You do and that was my point.

[MADem]

12. You need to grow a thicker skin.

"Bullying?" Calling people on their bullshit isn't 'bulllying.'

[monktonman]

21. Its the way you do it, repeatedly.

[MADem]

36. I'll say it again--you need to grow a thicker skin. NT

[fenriswolf]

25. and people who wish to flee the country before

they close the borders are not whiners.

[MADem]

35. Sure, pal, sure. NT

[Breeze54]

10. "And I could care LESS about the "OP's bad feelings."

That's apparent.

The rules do NOT say that a member can't rant and express their feelings of outrage at all!!

What a load of hash you're slinging today! :eyes:

"some people really do NOT get it." ~MADem~

Now that's a true statement!!

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Breeze54]

19. I think members are entitled to rant and get it out of their system

without being barraged with insults, brow beating and lectures.

I see this OP as an exercise in blowing steam and I'm fine with that.

If you want to go off the deep end and take every word as fact, then

have at it. I for one, can understand the frustration.

The OP didn't say they were boarding a plane right now!

I suspect the OP needed to vent and that's fine with me.

You seem to 'vent' in most of your posts!!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

20. I have yet to post that I will not vote at all, and that the Democrats are exactly like the

Republicans.

And, I don't anticipate that I ever will. That is the basis of the above rant and it's that which prompted my response..

Rants happen all the time here, and I am as enthusiastic as the next DU'er about letting off steam. No argument there. MKJ

[Breeze54]

26. I didn't post a comment to you but OK, if you want to reply for MADem!

:P

Some Democrats are exactly like the Republicans.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

27. My mistake, I sometiimes mix up you and the OP, hard to keep up!

You both are quick to explain how the R's and D's are exactly alike.

:hi: MKJ

[Breeze54]

28. I've NEVER explained how the R's and D's are alike at all!

Maybe you are mixing everyone up? :shrug:

Don't attempt to put words in my mouth!

Get glasses.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

30. Your post 26. As an accessory to the OP.

It's cool, whatever. :hi: MKJ

[Breeze54]

37. Some ARE DINO's and if you don't know that then;

you need to do more reading and vote checking.

To mix up my name with Orange County Democrat, is a stretch... :eyes:

I think you're making it up.

[MADem]

38. Well, some whiner is hitting the alert button, but I'll reiterate my main points

This is a forum for DEMOCRATS AND OTHER PROGRESSIVES. It's not a place where chronic "Good Bye Cruel World" and "The Parties Are All Alike" and "The Democrats SUCK, they're they same as the Republicans" types should be coddled, tolerated or honored.

Ya want approval for that kind of horseshit? FweeWeepubic will probably leap all over ya with flowers and candy.

We have an ELECTION to win, and I don't have time for self indulgent crybabies.

I don't vent. My blood pressure's fine, and I like the Democratic Party and the hard work they're doing. I like all the candidates who are running, some better than others, but I think they all have a good message and they're a strong field. I don't go for bashing of the party. If that's venting, so be it.

Or it could be that you have perception issues, maybe?

[Breeze54]

42. You sure get snarky when you rant and vent!

"I don't vent. My blood pressure's fine,"
Take a look in the mirror. See any steam coming out of your ears?

You not only vent all the time but you attack anyone not in lock step to your liking!

If you didn't have the 'time'; then why have you replied in this thread FIVE times?? :shrug:

(I didn't alert on you, btw.) Just in case you want to try to "vent" on me, don't.

[MADem]

43. Nope, no steam. Sorry to disappoint.

You sure have thin skin, if that's what you think. Or you get excessively "upset" at any conversations that aren't all about agreement and consensus.

You are mistaken again, too in your second sentence assertion. I have absolutely no problem with people who "aren't in lock step to (my) liking."

But these ARE the 'internets.' And this isn't church, where one person preaches and everyone else says "AMEN."

Look, this place is a DISCUSSION BOARD. Not a "Pat on the Back" board. Not a "Let's all agree" board. What takes place here is DISCUSSION. Debate. ARGUMENTS. That's what this place is about. Not "Happy, Happy, Glad, Glad" and "Oh, POOR you!" everytime someone whines.

If someone throws down, and you don't buy it, you COMMENT. See, that's the IDEA behind this place--discussion, not lockstep, mindless approval and nurturing of BS concepts. Especially when crap is being thrown, and when it's dramatic crap that is insulting to the entire party leadership before it settles on one candidate, it's deserving of a forceful retort.

[Breeze54]

44. You're projecting your feelings on to me. - I'm far from upset.

Don't flatter yourself. :D I'm laughing! :rofl:

You don't upset me but thanks for the giggles!! ;)

[MADem]

45. No, I am not doing that either. You're the one who keeps suggesting that I am upset, and

asking me to look in the mirror and so forth.

So, if that shoe fits ya, you go on and wear it now.

:rofl: and giggles notwithstanding, there...

[leeroysphitz]

53. Boy am I getting sick of you "love it or leave it" types on this board.

Yes the op was was voicing frustration with some "foot stomping" etc... but it also voiced valid criticisms. Criticism of ones party can be a form of SUPPORT and to say otherwise makes one sound like a republican.

[MADem]

55. Just like I'm getting sick of the "Democrats SUCK!!!" whiners.

On a board named DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND.

Gee, we agree on something--that we're sick of certain behaviors.

Criticism that consists of "FUCK 'em, they're all the same, I ain't votin'" is not "support" in any way, shape or form. Unless you're supporting the GOP. It's suppression, and that very argument is commonly put forward to our community by the RNC.

I look ASKANCE at anyone who advances it, because they are, wittingly or unwittingly, knowingly or ignorantly, carrying Mehlmanesque water. It's much more than just foot stomping.

I take issue with any effort by anyone to depress the vote and suggest that staying home might be a good move--it's as dispicable as voter caging.

So I guess there will be no lighting of the Kumbaya campfire anytime soon.

[leeroysphitz]

57. I see your point but I think you paint yourself into a corner with it.

If democrats aren't supposed to complain about our representation and threaten not to vote when our elected officials refuse to listen to us then what incentive do they have to EVER listen to us?

Besides, accussing those who are fed up with indadequate or unresponsive representation (from people they thought they could trust) of trying to suppress the vote is a little tin-foily anyhow.

[leeroysphitz]

58. I see your point but I think you paint yourself into a corner with it.

If democrats aren't supposed to complain about our representation and threaten not to vote when our elected officials refuse to listen to us then what incentive do they have to EVER listen to us?

Besides, accussing those who are fed up with indadequate or unresponsive representation (from people they thought they could trust) of trying to suppress the vote is a little tin-foily anyhow.

[MADem]

59. I didn't say that.

You're suggesting that I am an advocate of the "Sit Down and Shut Up" club. I'm not. But there's two kinds of criticism--constructive, and whiner-bullshit/heat-but-no-light. This 'rant' falls into the latter category. It doesn't help the party, it doesn't help the politicians improve, it's aimed squarely at Democratic supporters on a Democratic discussion forum, not the politicians themselves, and it has the effect of supressing participation and demotivating people.

If you think that voter suppression through discouragement is "tin foily" you have one helluva lot to learn. Study Rove. It's what he did so well. Where the hell do you think the "They're ALL ALIKE" argument CAME from in the first place? No one shopped "Abandon Hope" and "Don't Even Bother" to his enemy better than Rove.

I'm just not putting up with it, and I don't let it slide when I see it. It's insidious, and we have too much work to do, regardless of what candidate each of us supports (or even if we haven't chosen one yet), in the run-up to November 08. It's important that Democratic priorities be TOUTED, shaped, sharpened-- not spend our time carping about horseshit.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

7. Word of encouragement such as what? "Poor baby"? How exactly is one to respond to

an "all is lost, stomping feet, No, no, I don't like ANY of them" tantrum aimed at all who are Congressional representatives and/or running for president, on a political Democratic message board in a way which is encouraging?

:shrug: MKJ

[monktonman]

13. Seems to me the poster was airing an opinion

While I dont agree with that opinion
I dont expect to change their mind by calling them names and bullying them.
If anything, doing that will only make them run away faster.

Maybe you could tell the poster that you understand the frustration and ask them to take a few moments to calm down and explain their position in a more constuctive manner.
ya know, let cooler head prevail.

Instead, what you guys do, repeatedly, is take a person who is obviously distraught and not thinking straight and re-inforce their shitty feelings about being here.
Way to go guys!
Nice way to make everyone feel included!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

18. Well, those who are distraught and not thinking straight maybe, just maybe, should take a breath

before posting.

Or, perhaps post someplace where others share that sentiment, if looking for support.

And, if the poster has shitty feelings about being here, maybe here is not where they should be. MKJ

[MADem]

16. Precisely. nt

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

11. There Are No Choices

There are plenty of Democrats who I support. Funny thing though, NONE OF THEM will be running this country for the next 4-8 years.

Supporting someone, just because she's a Democrat, is kind of like a Falcons Fan, supporting Michael Vick, just because he's their star player.

If I wanted to live in a MONARCHY, I suppose I could move to England. I think the Liberal party over there, have More Balls than our excuse for a party.

The Gore's, The Feingold's, The Boxer's, The Dean's....they're all missing.

The Edwards', The Kucinich's, The Obama's....their fate has already been dealt.

I'm not going to be told who to vote for, like repubs were told to vote for *. If I did, I would be no better than them.

[MADem]

48. Oh, please. The Michael Vick reference is over the top, and excessively dramatic.

You can't find a single soul you can support in the entire field of Democratic candidates? No, of course you can't--because if you did, you wouldn't get any 'Poor Me' attention.

OR...you make the excuse that the ones that YOU like have no hope of winning. I guess they sure as hell don't, if they have to count on shitty, abandon-hope 'supporters' like you, who don't support, but instead give up before the game is even out of the early innings.

Well, maybe you SHOULD take your ball and go home. I sure as hell think you are a naysaying whiner, and that is NOT an insult, that is based on your very own, whining words:

The Edwards', The Kucinich's, The Obama's....their fate has already been dealt.

Gimme a fucking break. Only in YOUR HEAD.

And as for the people you're crying about, that aren't running, that's THEIR choice. Not yours--which politician in their right mind would do what you say, or at this stage, care about what you think? You don't even wanna fucking VOTE. You've GIVEN up, and you want people to feel sorry for you.

You might wanna go back to the last election, and recheck your 'dynamic' there. Dean had the Massive Momentum and was chugging towards the the nom around this time--he was the unstoppable fresh face. But hey...things change. Though I guess they don't in your static world. On the bright side, I'll bet that bath of PityMe is warm and comfy....

And since you've dramatically decided that you don't want to vote, you may as well stamp "I don't give a shit" on your forehead. You're irrelevant. If you aren't part of the solution, and all that.

Good luck getting into the UK, or any of the EU countries, if you don't have a strong connection that's inside a generation or so. Either that, or you will want to be quite wealthy; they don't really like us much nowadays. And people who don't vote for change aren't gonna help us change that impression.

They'll make exceptions for the very rich. Save your pennies, and don't let the door hit ya.

:nopity:

[havocmom]

3. Bad news for you: RW Global Corporatist not just a local problem

They have that GLOBAL thing going.

Might as well stay here and work toward fixing the problem at home. There is no running away from it, unless you are EXTREMELY rich, in which case, you're probably part of the problem (Yeah, I am talking THAT rich- upper 1/2% globally rich)

RW seems to be everywhere. There's no hiding. The giant global corps have all the resources tied up (including water) and they own politicians everywhere.

By the way, by abdicating your franchise, you will be contributing to the demise. There is no conscientious-objector status in this global class war.

[PoiBoy]

22. VERY well said, havocmom..!!!

"There is no conscientious-objector status in this global class war." - brilliantly said... may I quote you?

[havocmom]

23. You bet

My small contributions to the dialog being spread about do my wee ego some good. ;)

Love the kick-boxer-baby. Reminds me just a bit about Wayward Daughter, but that's a story for another time.

[Myrina]

4. Well stated

Thanks for putting into words what so many of us feel.

:thumbsup:

[stimbox]

14. Come on OCD don't give up yet.

The primary hasn't happened yet.
There still is a chance for your favored candidate.
Vote your conscience or vote strategically, but please vote.

[TahitiNut]

17. Here's a thought ...

:evilgrin:

[timtom]

49. Perfect timing, TN!

I am constantly amazed at how often I agree with you. (Not just your political opinions, but your handling of a difficult matter, such as this thread's apparent divisiveness).

A calming word from a few clear thinkers.

[monktonman]

24. I share your feelings but the result is not the same.

I will never abandon my country, leaving now would leave the people I care about with one less protector and I cant do that and live with myself.
In spite of all the bullshit we're being fed these days, I still cant think of a better country to live in. While America may have its faults the one thing we have that no other country does is, well, Americans. If the only reason to stay here is my fellow countrymen then so be it, I will suffer through along side my neighbors.
You are correct, it is a fucking game to some. To others the political process is as important as life itself. When your feeling let down and abonadoned by your party might I encourage you to think about the spirit of the constitution and all those before us who faught so hard for the rights that we enjoy. It wasnt easy for them either, many gave their lives and I for one am willing to fight to my last breath to uphold the spirit of the founders.
We are surrounded by scoundrels indeed. Please dont abandon me. I NEED YOU.
Vote your consience.
just make sure you vote!


On edit: there, was that so hard?

[Fly by night]

29. Then work for Gore NOW and until 11/08. Or quit your bell-aching.

The only people who believe HRC has sown up the nomination at this point are those who aren't paying attention

Or those who are suffering from kool-aid poisoning.

If Gore's not your candidate, then work for Richardson or Kucinich or McKinney or anyone who fits your bill.

That's what the process is all about.

The only people who really applaud your attitude and who would help you pack to leave the country (besides fellow distracteds and kool-aid mainliners) are Rethugs and their flying monkey minions who want fewer aware, capable and committed opponents of their effort to commit grand theft-America.

We have met the enemies and they ain't us.

Lead, follow or get out of the way. If that requires a new continent for you, buh-bye.

[monktonman]

32. How easily we give up on each other.

In my estimate, the OP is drowning. Who wouldnt in this sea of bullshit?
Instead of throwing someone a lifeline, some here find it amusing
to put a boot on his head and push him even further under.
Thats sad.

Thanks for the support!

[Fly by night]

34. Re-read my post (if you can)

I gave the OP some constructive suggestions -- like work for the candidate that she/he believes is closest to her/his ideal.

For me, that's Gore. For them/you, I hope that is someone who signs their name with a "D" at the end.

If not, you're in the wrong neighborhood.

Maybe I should add "Don't just sit there whining and dissing America -- do something!!! Anything."

If the OP can't and won't, then getting the fuck to another country is fine with me.

There's no room for cry-babies and "woe is us"ers in the 2008 trenches.

Lead, follow or get the hell to another country. It's no skin off my nose (or my knuckles).

Me, I'm anxious to take the country-raping Rethug mo'foers on, particularly since in most of our states this time around, we are actually likely to count the votes as they were cast. (If we could pass Holt, that could be all of them.)

If that battle's too much for either of you, then go work on your tan (and your attitude) elsewhere.

Just don't let the Statue of Liberty kick y'all in the ass on your way out.

[monktonman]

39. I was only commenting on the "flavour" of your reply.

I understand your sentiment.
I would just try harder to put it in another way, thats all.
I've grown ever more sensitive to the fuck you, big f, attitude of some around here
and I dont blame others who are sick of it and want to jump ship.
Considering all the bullshit going on out there, you'd think one would be able to
find a little refuge in here.
Other than the harsh way you deal with dissent, I agree with your sentiment.
If we're tired of being taken advantage of we need to step up our efforts to come together
and work harder for what we want.

And yes, I can read, very well thank you.

[Fly by night]

46. Thanks -- sorry for sounding snippy -- we are all in the same boat ...

... and those who forget that -- who want instead to swim with the sharks -- don't often get my sympathy and instead too often appeal to the less-flattering snarky side of me.

Mea culpa.

[MADem]

41. ...!!!...

Yeah, what you said!

:thumbsup!

[ocean girl]

31. Between being on the Board at my S. Florida condo

and living in this country, I'm with ya, OCD!

[robinlynne]

33. Hey OC DEm. Go to a progressive democrats of america meeting. You will

find like-minded people, who feel the same way, coming together to make changes. When you are fighting the corporatists, be they republican or democrat, you are in the process, and it feels a lot better, even though they are winning more than we are. Changing one congressional seat to a progressive makes a lot of difference.
Because the good ones: Feingold, Boxer, Conyers, Lee, Waters, are worth 20 of the others.

[porphyrian]

40. You should at least vote in the primaries.

Hey, you could live here in Florida. My primary vote won't even count.

[Yael]

47. Nice rant!

Now we just need to work to make sure you aren't put in that position.

:thumbsup:

[LeftCoast]

50. I'm curious as to how withholding your vote will make things better?

:shrug:

[cali]

52. Are you planning

on traveling by whaambulance?

[lonestarnot]

54. Tee hee hee.

Was thinking the same thing and saw your post! :toast:

[MADem]

56. ... !!! ....

:thumbsup:

[roody]

60. Why not suppport Kucinich?

I am not a Democrat, but I support progressive ones.