Isn't it funny that no WMDs were ever found in Iraq? if I was Cheney/Bush I would have made sure

[FogerRox]

I would have planted WMDs in Iraq, because I knew Iraq had no WMDs.


As far as I know the CIA has 5 Directorates, the largest is the Directorate of Operations. People like Valerie Plame, Larry Johnson and Ray McGovern worked for the Directorate of intelligence. Intell & Ops have been @ odds, on and off, for decades. GHW Bush and Allen Dulles (Bay of Pigs fame), H. L. Hunt are from Operations. This is my take on the Plame affair.

I mean really, Bush claims Saddam has WMDs, but Bush knew Saddam didn't. So why didn't Cheney/Bush just plant some WMDs in Iraq and then say " We told you so". Haven't you wondered why no WMDS were ever found?

Maybe they did try to plant WMDs in Iraq

CIA Directorate of ops vs the CIA Directorate of Intell

These 2 depts have been fighting each other for decades.

CIA Dir ops, is tasked by Cheney to plant VX gas in Iraq. To be later found by US troops, so Bush can say I told you so.

CIA Dir Intell tasks Brewster Jenning with counter proliferation of WMDs.

AS the VX (CIA Dir ops) tanker truck makes its way thru Turkey, headed for Iraq, the truck gets intercepted by Brewster Jennings (CIA Dir Intell).

Boy does Bush & Cheney get pissed.

Real pissed.

But Bush and Cheney have no cause to as of yet.... go after the CIA intell people........ Until Joe Wilson goes on a mission. And who was it that asked for a mission, to work up the veracity of the Yellow cake story ?

Does the punishment fit the Crime

Now if the whole kit and kaboddle was about Wilson and the yellow cake story, why the big deal multi year revenge plan from Cheney/Bush ? Why Piss off the entire CIA Directorate of Intelligence ? To me the punishing of Plame and Wilson for being vocal against the war does not equal one of the great scandals of the decade. Wilson & Plames crime against Cheney/Bush does not fit the punishment, unless someone wants to tell me that the Cheney Bush Cabal completely over reacted. No, Wilson & Plames crime had to be far more serious to warrant this hi level of payback. Its clear Cheney/Bush went to great lengths to punish Plame & Wilson because Brewster Jennings made a laughing stock out of Bush & Cheney.


Crossing the Rubicon

Nixxing the plan to plant VX nerve gas in Iraq may have been just another in a long line of Ops vs Intell CIA turf wars. But Prescott Bush and Allen Dulles, as well as Prescotts' son, GHW Bush are all cut from the same cloth. Operations. They do the real work, installing the Shah in Iran, Guatemala 1954, Haiti 1959, Bay of Pigs, Brazil 1964. When Wilson went out hunting for Yellowcake, Cheney was set to pounce. Along with Scooter Libby. ANd it wasnt just Plame and Wilson, it wasnt just Brewster Jennings. Cheney re-invented the entire Directorate of Intell. A new Director was installed, Gates. Many in intell were smeared with the meme that bad intell lead us into Iraq, the entire Iraqi Fiasco was blamed on the intell. Many in intell left the company. Some wrote books after leaving, I believe one must get permission to write books of the sort we have seen over the last 4 years. By outing Plame Cheney castrated the entire Intell dept. Cheney crossed the line, he committed treason.

No figure from any administration in history has ever intentionally outted an arm of the CIA. But Cheney did, Cheney offered punishment that fit the crime.

Finally

If you are John Murtha, you get that crazy bitch callin you out on the floor of the House. If you are John Kerry, you get Swiftboated. But if you blow the operation to plant VX nerve gas in Iraq... you will see revenge like no one else in your life time. The entire first term of George Bush was on the line, the entire Neo Con, Rovian machine was put into play to crush the intell folks.



I got a chance to talk to Ray McGovern about a year ago. I told him this story and asked him if he thought the Cheney Bush Cabal had tried to plant WMDs in Iraq. He did not directly answer, here I paraphrase Rays comment:

My CIA friends and I, always thought there would be WMDs found in Iraq. We wondered why none were.

Ray said this with a twinkle in his eye, I then asked him if I could get a picture with him.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SOURCES:

Did Plame out WH plans for finding WMD in Iraq?

Buried in a TPM Nov 18 blog about what the WH was really thinking when it invaded Iraq, Joshua Micah Marshall writes "This even leads to a sort of inverted conspiracy theorizing when people ask, 'If he knew there was no WMD, why didn't they at least try to plant some to avoid the catastrophic embarrassment which ensued after the war.

afterdowningstreet.org

the CIA Counter-Proliferation Division prevented the shipment of binary VX nerve gas from Turkey into Iraq in November 2002. The Brewster Jennings network in Turkey was able to intercept this shipment which was intended to be hidden in Iraq and later used as evidence that Saddam Hussein was in possession of weapons of mass destruction. U.S. intelligence sources revealed that this was a major reason the Bush White House targeted Plame and her network. In fact, U.S. intelligence sources report that the first shipment of VX nerve gas to Saddam Hussein was carried out between 1988 and 1989. The gas was shipped to Iraq by a U.S. company that was established in 1987 -- The Carlyle Group."

democrats.com

It is also rumored that Plame's Brewster-Jennings just prior to Plames exposure had been instrumental in stopping a load of WMD headed for Iraq through Turkey, and it has been conjectured that this was the shipment and Bush operation to plant the WMD’s in Iraq.

alaskafreepress.com

Wayne Madsen also reported on this.

U.S. Suspects Al Qaeda Got Nerve Agent From Iraqis
Analysts: Chemical May Be VX, And Was Smuggled Via Turkey

By Barton Gellman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 12, 2002; Page A01

The Bush administration has received a credible report that Islamic extremists affiliated with al Qaeda took possession of a chemical weapon in Iraq last month or late in October, according to two officials with firsthand knowledge of the report and its source. They said government analysts suspect that the transaction involved the nerve agent VX and that a courier managed to smuggle it overland through Turkey.

If the report proves true, the transaction marks two significant milestones. It would be the first known acquisition of a nonconventional weapon other than cyanide by al Qaeda or a member of its network. It also would be the most concrete evidence to support the charge, aired for months by President Bush and his advisers, that al Qaeda terrorists receive material assistance in Iraq. If advanced publicly by the White House, the report could be used to rebut Iraq's assertion in a 12,000-page declaration Saturday that it had destroyed its entire stock of chemical weapons.

On the central question whether Iraqi President Saddam Hussein knew about or authorized such a transaction, U.S. analysts are said to have no evidence. Because Hussein's handpicked Special Security Organization, run by his son Qusay, has long exerted tight control over concealed weapons programs, officials said they presume it would be difficult to transfer a chemical agent without the president's knowledge.
more...

WaPo

Al Qaeda was in Iraq in late 2002? News to me, sounds fishy, don't ya think? Sounds like disinfo to me.

Iraq Denies Giving al - Qaida Nerve Agent

December 12, 2002
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Iraq-Nerve-Gas.html

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- A senior Iraqi general dismissed as ``ridiculous'' a published report Thursday that Iraq may have provided nerve gas to Islamic extremists affiliated with al-Qaida.

``This is really a ridiculous assumption from the American administration,'' Lt. Gen. Hossam Mohammed Amin told a news conference. ``They know very well we have no prohibited substances.''

[flyarm]

1. Look up Nelda Rogers..whistle blower,...eom

[FogerRox]

2. Sibel said

As Edmonds has stated, the cast of players she stumbled upon during her time at the FBI and some of the very same people that Valerie Plame was investigating involved the actions of top officials in the government and a lot of illegal activities that include multi-billion-dollar drug-smuggling operations, black-market nuclear sales to terrorists and unsavory regimes. In an August 5th interview, Edmonds said, "You can start from the AIPAC angle. You can start from the Plame case. You can start from my case. They all end up going to the same place, and they revolve around the same nucleus of people."

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0601/S00177.htm

[Disturbed]

4. Wasn't Judy Miller in Iraq around that time?

She got special clearance from Rumsfailed to search for WMDs.

[flyarm]

12. exactly!! she was..eom

[FogerRox]

3. Right on, exactly

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_12-8-2003_pg1_9

[tabasco]

5. They would have been caught and they knew it.

It would have been the end of the republican party and serious prison time for all.

No way to keep everybody quiet about his.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blashyrkh]

42. A lot of people expressed doubts of Iran-Contra. You only need to keep people quiet for 10 minutes.

Once everyone is distracted again, most people will forget about it.

[Esra Star]

6. The problem with planting WMD is that too many people would

have to be in the loop. Cover stories like can't last long.
There must be a simple formula. Like the length of time a false story lasts is
inversely proportional to the number of living people who know about it.
If a thousand people know, then the truth will emerge in a year divided by 1000.
There would be a maximum number of people where the lie could live on.
This number would be no more than twenty.
Most conspiracy theories fail when confronted with the fact that too many people have
to remain quiet.......forever.
The twin towers one is a good example.

[FogerRox]

7. See post # 3.

And let me ask you, just WTF was a truck with VX doing driving thru Turkey and how does that get the OK of the Turkish Government?

Or is the WaPo article utterly fake? WHich could be considering it claims Al Queda was in Iraq in late 2002.

But I do have to say your post is utter bullshit.

[Igel]

10. The WaPo article was simply wrong.

Even the text provides no reason to believe the claim--no hard evidence, no proof, etc., etc.

The AQ reference was Ansar al-Islam, claimed to be an AQ affiliate, not AQ-Central.

Most of the rest ... equally odd.

Personally, the only interesting bit is the implication that one *should* be surprised that no WMD were found. Blix's 2003 report listed a lot of stuff that nobody could prove was destroyed--and it put him in a bind. He couldn't say it wasn't there, since it was documented or confessed to by Iraq, but he couldn't say it was there since (a) he couldn't find it and (b) that would legitimate, in some sense, *.

[Garbo 2004]

13. Ansar al-Islam IIRC was in an area not controlled by Saddam. I think they received some support

from Iran. They weren't on Saddams buddy list. The suggestion that Saddam was actually sheltering them was just another bit of misdirection trying to tie Saddam to AQ.

[Esra Star]

11. Any such attempt would have failed eventually any way.

Please try to be more civil.

[karlrschneider]

9. Good post and you're exactly right. No doubt in MY mind they would have -liked- to plant some WMD

but as you say that's not the kind of operation that could be kept under wraps indefinitely (or even long enough to be 'safe' for the collaborators.) The world just don't work like that. I think the people who think a 'hugh' conspiracy like would be necessary could be contained forever haven't ever been involved in even a little shitty one.
.

[pretzel4gore]

14. but lookit Jack the Ripper?

let's summarise the known facts. In 1888 Whitechapel London a strangely vicious killer does in 5 prostitutes in a few months beginning in the early fall. Then he stops killing after the last, most horrific death of pretty Mary Kelly in her room at Millers court, in November. In 1959 the memoirs of the top cop in the Ripper case revealed that he believed the Ripper to be Montague John Druitt, who committed suicide in December 1888, a month after the Kelly murder. The entire J the R legend has grown up because of various factors, the main being that it was the first serial killer case covered by the press, which was quite garish in its coverage, shades of OJ or jon Benet Ramsey... Druitt was an upper class twit, one of the elite, a 'public' schoolboy. The victims were down and out lost souls, desperate women who remain voiceless to this day. If you google J the R, you'll read for a week and never get anywhere- the ripper was never id'd, and that's that. But also remember that the Whitechapel murders were a great shock to the Victorian era, the poverty and suffering of desperate poor which underlined the good life of the upper class twittery made Jack the Ripper possibly the one case we today can look back at and see the same sort of thing at work as ...well as in the JFK murder, or the Downing Street Minutes, or even 911, in terms of hoodwinking the great unwashed ie US! Why bother with truth when nudgewink chuka chuka heehaw does just as well? (Druitt, after all was dead, the killings stopped) Why convict an aristocratic loser when the poor are already too damn upset because they are suffering terribly, and when the agitator commies are plotting overthrow of the good life and ...etc? Why not just close the books (as was done in 1892) and leave sleeping dogs lie? And let lotsa upper class twits like Patricia Cornwell make loadsadough off the silly case meanwhile!
And that's what they did....

[FogerRox]

15. Over 150 years.... the Bush crime family is a conspiracy

The world just don't work like that.

According to the Bush Family history it does work that way.


Who is next?

[FogerRox]

18. Bush family friends rebuilt the German war machine after 1918

to this day its still called a CT by most. 80 years, but we have the documentation now, But according to your thoery, it cant happen.

To support your theory, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, once the sailors from the ship got home, they told the truth, the story got out.

[Rhythm and Blue]

22. Sending a plane with a few WMD and a handful of CIA agents: impossibly complex.

Massive plan involving FBI, CIA, two different airlines, Al-Qaeda, NSA, Air Force, NORAD, White House, and others: reasonable!

[FogerRox]

24. Yeah right

CIA they do the real work, installing the Shah in Iran, Guatemala 1954, Haiti 1959, Bay of Pigs, Brazil 1964.

Nobody has yet to spill the beans on Bush & Cheney, nearly 7 yrs, all the right people have kept quite......

....but hey dont let logic get in the way of someones right to post @ DU.

[Rhythm and Blue]

26. Right. CIA is capable of doing all sorts of amazingly powerful black ops,

supposedly including an unprecedented large-scale false-flag that involves the deaths of thousands of Americans, but suddenly turns into the fucking Keystone Kops when asked to plant a few WMD in Iraq--and then gives up? Gimme a break.

[Esra Star]

28. I can't follow your logic here.

Your sub line seems to suggest around six people in the know?
If that was the case they could not hide anything significant, and the downside would be
too great.
The suggestion in the main text is a bit cryptic. Although it seems to be suggesting
a conspiracy with a cast of thousands. ??
Cheers

[Rhythm and Blue]

29. Just pointing out a flaw in conspiracy theorists' reasoning.

They seem to suggest that planting WMDs in Iraq to justify the war there was too difficult to pull off, though it would require a cast of maybe 20-30 in total.

They also suggest that the government faked 9/11, which would require a cast of hundreds if not thousands.

[Esra Star]

31. I understand now. Thanks nt

[AZBlue]

16. Hubris.

They thought that no one would dare question them or hold them accountable.

[AZBlue]

17. Hubris.

They thought that no one would dare question them or hold them accountable.

[Rosemary2205]

19. Who was that English guy they suicided to shut him up?

I know SOMEONE on DU knows what I'm talking about....... he had proof Bushco was trying to plant WMD's and then poof, he suicided hisself.

[FogerRox]

20. I remember the helo shot of the site where they found the body

covered with a tarp to prevent the press from getting good pix.

[OnyxCollie]

21. Of course they had intended to plant WMD in Iraq.

But something got screwed up (Kelly/Plame etc.)

The plan was to call out Saddam, invade, find WMD, take over, and then move onto Iran. Bush goes down in history as Woodrow Wilson II and the neocons gorge themselves free & clear.

Why else would they keep pushing their story when it no longer makes sense? It's all they've got and they're sticking with it.

And those that say it would be too difficult, the fact that five nuclear warheads went "missing" for 36 hours should give some people pause for concern.

[Rex]

23. Didn't need to do anything, after the election in 2000

everything else was just gravy...no need to worry; if the government says so, it must be true.

[FogerRox]

25. You and your damned logic

[Rex]

27. Well, I am just saying what the WH has been doing for the past 7 years.

Ya know. If it works, do it.

[bhikkhu]

30. Nuclear materials blocked at the Kuwaiti border

feel free to pay no attention to this as I did not record the link, but in 2003 (or so - sorry - soon after "mission accomplished") a very credible sounding report was that Kuwaiti officials had blocked a US convoy headed into Iraq after it set off radiation detectors at the border, and turned it around. This may have been in the Tehran Times...but again sounded very credible, detailed, and predictable at the time.

If anyone else recalls the story or can find a link it would be a nice piece of history to have in hand.

[diane in sf]

32. I remember looking at that article too, thought it was credible. Have not

been able to find a link either.

[flyarm]

33. I posted this stuff here a long time ago..just check it out..

from an old thread of mine on du ..that i had had in my files ..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5404231&mesg_id=5404344

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/flyarm/169

whislteblower is afraid..she knew of the planting of wmd in iraq!
Posted by flyarm in General Discussion (Through 2005)
Sat Nov 19th 2005, 09:53 AM
check out the date of this piece!! i kept it in my files!!

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/03/06/Whistleb...

Real History and the Iraq War

Posted Saturday, June 28, 2003



snip:

June 20, 2003


A DOD whistleblower reportedly details an attempt by a covert U.S. team to plant weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The team was said to have been later killed by friendly fire due to CIA incompetence.

Pentagon Whistleblower Reveals CIA/ DoD Fiascos

IN a world exclusive, Al Martin Raw.com has published a news story about a Department of Defense whistleblower who has revealed that a US covert operations team had planted "Weapons of Mass Destruction" (WMDs) in Iraq -- then "lost" them when the team was killed by so-called "friendly fire."

The Pentagon whistleblower, Nelda Rogers, is a 28-year veteran debriefer for the Defense Department. She has become so concerned for her safety that she decided to tell the story about this latest CIA-military fiasco in Iraq.

According to Al Martin Raw.com, "Ms.Rogers is number two in the chain of command within this DoD special intelligence office. This is a ten-person debriefing unit within the central debriefing office for the Department of Defense.

snip:

"According to Ms. Rogers, there was a covert military operation that took place both preceding and during the hostilities in Iraq," reports Al Martin Raw.com, an online subscriber-based news/analysis service which provides "Political, Economic and Financial Intelligence."

Al Martin is a retired Lt. Commander (US Navy), the author of a memoir called The Conspirators: Secrets of an Iran Contra Insider, and he is considered one of America's foremost experts on corporate and government fraud.

Ms. Rogers reports that this particular covert operation team was manned by ex-military personnel and that "the unit was paid through the Department of Agriculture in order to hide it, which is also very commonplace."
According to Al Martin Raw.com, "the Ag Department has often been used as a paymaster on behalf of the CIA, DIA, and NSA and others."

According to the Al Martin Raw.com story, another aspect of Ms. Rogers' report concerns a covert operation which was to locate the assets of Saddam Hussein and his family, including cash, gold bullion, jewelry and assorted valuable antiquities.

The problem became evident when "the operation in Iraq involved 100 people, all of whom apparently are now dead, having succumbed to so-called 'friendly fire.' The scope of this operation included the penetration of the Central Bank of Iraq, other large commercial banks in Baghdad, the Iraqi National Museum and certain presidential palaces where monies and bullion were secreted."

"They identified about $2 billion of cash in US dollars, another $150 million in Euros, in physical banknotes, and about another $100 million in sundry foreign currencies ranging from Yen to British Pounds," reports Al Martin.

"These people died, mostly in the same place in Baghdad, supposedly from a stray cruise missile or a combination of missiles and bombs that went astray," Martin continues. "There were supposedly 76 who died there and the other 24 died through a variety of 'friendly fire,' 'mistaken identity,' and some of them -- their whereabouts are simply unknown."


futher proof of this is as follows ..from my files:

fly

AND MORE BACKUP..
http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/... ...

http://www.americanpolitics.com/20040420Ba...



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x894299#895372

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/03/06/Whistleblower.html

June 20, 2003


A DOD whistleblower reportedly details an attempt by a covert U.S. team to plant weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The team was said to have been later killed by friendly fire due to CIA incompetence.

Pentagon Whistleblower Reveals CIA/ DoD Fiascos

IN a world exclusive, Al Martin Raw.com has published a news story about a Department of Defense whistleblower who has revealed that a US covert operations team had planted "Weapons of Mass Destruction" (WMDs) in Iraq -- then "lost" them when the team was killed by so-called "friendly fire."

The Pentagon whistleblower, Nelda Rogers, is a 28-year veteran debriefer for the Defense Department. She has become so concerned for her safety that she decided to tell the story about this latest CIA-military fiasco in Iraq.

According to Al Martin Raw.com, "Ms.Rogers is number two in the chain of command within this DoD special intelligence office. This is a ten-person debriefing unit within the central debriefing office for the Department of Defense.

The information that is being leaked out is information "obtained while she was in Germany heading up the debriefing of returning service personnel, involved in intelligence work in Iraq for the Department of Defense and/or the Central Intelligence Agency.

"According to Ms. Rogers, there was a covert military operation that took place both preceding and during the hostilities in Iraq," reports Al Martin Raw.com, an online subscriber-based news/analysis service which provides "Political, Economic and Financial Intelligence."

Al Martin is a retired Lt. Commander (US Navy), the author of a memoir called The Conspirators: Secrets of an Iran Contra Insider, and he is considered one of America's foremost experts on corporate and government fraud.



and this:

http://www.americanpolitics.com/20040420Baker.html


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


CIA and DoD Attempted To Plant WMDs in Iraq -- and Failed
July 2, 2003
Pentagon Whistleblower Reveals CIA/DoD Fiascos

According to a stunning report posted by a retired Navy Lt. Commander and 28-year veteran of the Defense Department, the Bush administration's assurance about finding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was based on a CIA plan to "plant" WMDs inside the country. Nelda Rogers, the Pentagon whistleblower, claims the plan failed when the secret mission was mistakenly taken out by "friendly fire."

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/06/266752.shtml

A DoD whistleblower details an attempt by a covert US team to plant weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The team was later killed by friendly fire due to CIA incompetence.

In a world exclusive, Al Martin Raw.com (http://www.almartinraw.com/)has published a news story about a Department of Defense whistleblower who has revealed that a US covert-operations team had planted "Weapons of Mass Destruction" (WMDs) in Iraq, then "lost" them when the team was killed by so-called "friendly fire."

The Pentagon whistleblower, Nelda Rogers, is a 28-year veteran debriefer for the Defense Department. She has become so concerned for her safety that she decided to tell the story about this latest CIA-military fiasco in Iraq.

According to Al Martin Raw.com, {b}"Ms. Rogers is number two in the chain of command within this DoD special intelligence office. This is a ten-person debriefing unit within the central debriefing office for the Department of Defense."

The information that is being leaked out is information "obtained while she was in Germany heading up the debriefing of returning service personnel, involved in intelligence work in Iraq for the Department of Defense and/or the Central Intelligence Agency.

"According to Ms. Rogers, there was a covert military operation that took place both preceding and during the hostilities in Iraq," reports Al Martin Raw.com, an online subscriber-based news/analysis service which provides "Political, Economic and Financial Intelligence."

[FogerRox]

34. Yes, Nelda Rogers, comment #1 mentions her.

[autorank]

35. This is BRILLIANT. I've been burried and deeply regreet not beng abl to recommend it.

Perfect Roger. This is what the scientists mean when they use the term "elegant."

It's simple, explains everything, and is not reducible because it's so solid.

I've got to think about this one more but it's a blockbuster.

Did that guy in the pic whisper something in your ear?

[DS1]

37. JeffK

now there's a blast from the past. I loved his Lawyer, Leonard Krebs

[autorank]

38. Good times...

...like when JeffK (aka Lowtax) hacked the swingers site and traded insults with them for about 36 hours until they got control back. I just got inspired by something and felt Jeff needed a little exposure here. Maybe it will scare a few "Ultimate Warrior" fans out of the weeds.

[The Wizard]

36. You make too many connections to the Bush crime family

Go see the new movie "Rendition."

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

39. Oh, sure. I've always believed they tried to get just few caches of stuff in there.

It would not surprise me for one second that, due to their arrogance, they attempted to do so quite recklessly thinking the chaos would allow them to just zip in there.

On edit: freakin' Carlyle Group,...Prescott would be proud! They should be shut down just like his war profiteering machine was.

[CT_Progressive]

40. The problem with planting WMDs is you can tell who manufactured them.

Through examination.

Everyone would know they were ours, and thus planted.

[FogerRox]

41. The US sold VX to Iraq in 1987,1988,`1989

Binary. Dont know how long the stuff is good for.