Two contrasting quotes

[SHRED]

[question everything]

1. Oh, come one

I don't care for the Bush lady but you know that there is no such quote.

Posting this as a quote lower the credibility of you and of DU.

[renie408]

2. She said it on Good Morning America, I think. Right before we invaded Iraq.

She sure as hell DID say it.

[flordehinojos]

12. she also said it on a Larry King Live show. I heard it too!

i went googling to find the bush's quote on the Larry King show but couldn't find it. however, i did find these two linkds with reference to her quote on the GMA show.

Published on Sunday, May 23, 2004 by the New York Times

Michael Moore's Candid Camera
by Frank Rich

But why should we hear about body bags, and deaths, and how many, what day it's gonna happen, and how many this or what do you suppose? Or, I mean, it's, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? And watch him suffer."
— Barbara Bush on "Good Morning America," March 18, 2003
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0523-04.htm


Like Mother, Like Son
Why doesn’t President Bush feel obligated to meet with Cindy Sheehan during his vacation?
Remember this statement by his mother, Barbara Bush, on Good Morning America in March 2003:
Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths, and how many, what day it’s gonna happen, and how many this or what do you suppose? Oh, I mean, it’s not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?
The apple hasn’t fallen far from the tree.

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/19/like-mother-like-son/

[SHRED]

4. Think again

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/barbara.asp

[question everything]

9. Thanks. Still, from the same page

"Read within the context of the full interview, it is a tiny bit more clear that Mrs. Bush's "Beautiful Mind" statement (in reference to the movie by the same title that won the Oscar that year)... was to point that the news of that moment was much more about what could or might happen rather than what was happening was valid. Her comment was not meant as a dismissal of actual deaths or suffering (troops had not yet been engaged at the time of her remark), but of news coverage that amounted to one expert after another making predictions about what they saw was likely to occur."

(I cannot copy and paste so hand typed these quotes.)

[TahitiNut]

11. Read my post (#10) below. That fact makes it WORSE, not better.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2148106&mesg_id=2148223

[uppityperson]

13. Here you go (select all, copy all, paste all, delete a bunch)

Origins: While niggling memories of the title of the film that took Best Picture honors in the 2002 Academy Awards might leave some to Barbara Bush question the veracity of the purported Barbara Bush "beautiful mind" quote, the utterance was indeed the real thing. The former First Lady made this remark on national television shortly before the commencement of the invasion of Iraq.

The comment arose during a Good Morning America interview with the couple who were formerly President and First Lady, George H.W. Bush and Barbara Bush.

The interview was conducted by Diane Sawyer in Houston scant hours before the couple's son, President George W. Bush, delivered a televised ultimatum to Saddam Hussein to step down from power and leave Iraq or face U.S.-led military action. The chat with the senior Bushes aired the following morning, 18 March
2003.

The remark in question occurred early in the three-way conversation, following a line of query directed at Mrs. Bush regarding whether she found herself studying her son for verbal or visual signs of how well he was holding up under the pressure. (Sawyer: "As a mother, do you watch for strain on him?") Mrs. Bush replied that she looked for such indications in all five of her children and remarked on the family's propensity for having hair that turns white earlier than is the norm. An additional query about whether the senior Bushes, who do not normally watch a great deal of television, found themselves watching more TV during this period than was their usual custom fetched from Mrs. Bush the quote that has since earned a measure of notoriety:
I watch none. He sits and listens and I read books, because I know perfectly well that, don't take offense, that 90 percent of what I hear on television is supposition, when we're talking about the news. And he's not, not as understanding of my pettiness about that. But why should we hear about body bags, and deaths, and how many, what day it's gonna happen, and how many this or what do you suppose? Or, I mean, it's, it's not relevant. So, why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? And watch him suffer.
Read within the context of the full interview, it is a tiny bit more clear that Mrs. Bush's "beautiful mind" statement referred to her desire not to become mesmerized by the pre-war media speculation of what such an invasion would mean, what sorts of weaponry and defenses U.S. troops might well be walking into, which troops would be committed and when they'd be deployed, how long the war would last, and how high the body count might be. Prior to the commencement of hostilities, such matters were the subject of endless supposition by various news pundits. While maybe not "90 percent" of what was filling the air waves was guesswork rather than hard news, Mrs. Bush's point that news of that moment was much more about what could or might happen rather than what was happening was valid. Her comment was not meant as a dismissal of actual deaths or suffering (troops had not yet been engaged at the time of her remark), but of news coverage that amounted to one expert after another making predictions about what they saw as likely to occur.

So she wasn't saying "deaths" are negligent, but why bother look ahead, why bother speculate as to if there will be deaths, the numbers, etc. Why bother your beautiful brain thinking and talking about what the invasion/occupation will end up being.

[question everything]

15. Thanks. As I replied, below

IF - a big IF - you are convinced that a war is necessary - lesser of two evils when I am thinking of Neville Chamberlain - than number of death and casualty cannot be in the front if you are clear in your goals.

[renie408]

18. Yes. And look at how right she was. Ignoring what COULD have happened worked so well

for us.

That mitigates her comments...how?? She said it. It is indefensible. Stop trying.

[Sal Minella]

5. She said it on a morning TV show a few years back.

Some google wizard will provide you with the show and the date shortly, I expect.....

[Bitwit1234]

6. She said iton an interview on CNN

[renie408]

8. Good Morning America. I checked. A couple of days before the war started. n/t

[robinlynne]

7. I heard her say it on tv. We all did. Where were you?

[TahitiNut]

10. It's not only true that she said it, the (often misinterpreted) context makes it (imho) more damning

As her remark is often cited, it leaves us with the impression that she's arguing that actual deaths are 'irrelevant' when, in fact, she's claiming that the various predicted levels of death and dismemberment resulting from a choice to invade Iraq are irrelevant. This is stunning hypocrisy for a cabal that paints itself as 'realistic' and 'pragmatic' - at the same time it extols the ideological principles of conservatism. After all, it is fundamental to a consequentialist point of view that any act must be judged ethically on the (foreseeable?) consequences. When, however, those potential (foreseen) consequences are proclaimed 'irrelevant' then the abject ethical and moral bankruptcy of the adherent is laid bare.

It wasn't merely stunning in the Marie Antoinette sense, it was even more nakedly hypocritical from a purely posturing standpoint - paramount to a total confession of amorality and complete absence of ethics.

The Bush Klan compares to the absolute WORST in history ... worse than the House of Borgia of the 15th and 16th centuries.

[question everything]

14. Again, trying to take a step back

IF - a big IF - you think that invading Iraq is crucial to the security of this country and of the world - then, yes, I can see discussion about future death and suffering cannot be part of the equation.

As I was watching "the War" program on PBS I was stunned by the sheer numbers of death. They were in the tens and hundreds of thousands. And this was a consideration to finally nuke Japan - that I did not realize until that program and that we had a heated debate here a few weeks ago.

I don't think that FDR or any one could have anticipated this sheer number of death but I would like to think - I may be in the minority on DU - that even knowing these numbers that he would have gone ahead. (I just wished that some of the general, like the one at Anzio, were been better supervised).

[sandnsea]

16. I'm sure he thought about it

considerably, and didn't consider it a waste of his "beautiful mind" to consider the consequences of those deaths on families and communities.

There's no excuse for that comment, none at all.

[TahitiNut]

17. I don't think anyone (of note) failed to anticipate the number of dead in WW2.

The (American) Civil War, World War I, and the historical battlefields of Europe were more than adequate testimony to the toll of war. When we react with revulsion-in-hindsight to the toll of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we myopically forget the 7-month Battle of Stalingrad in 1942-43 where over 1.5 million people were killed or dismembered! That was no mushroom cloud. That was not even involving a regime committed to suicide attacks.

1.5 million people killed or dismembered in 7 months! In the siege of just one city! Then there's the fire-bombing of Tokyo and Dresden. Enormous casualtie figures.

Those deaths were far from irrelevant ... and, even less irrelevant, were the deaths of 200,000 in the bombings of 2 cities. Believe me - in war, death is NEVER irrelevant.

When we count the death toll, we must NEVER think solely in terms of "coalition deaths" ... since the almost uncountable deaths of Iraqis will forever be to our deep shame. Many hundreds of thousands of people - murdered for a lie.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Well said. Beautifully said.

"No man is an island entire of itself ... any man's death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." John Donne

[renie408]

19. Huh? I am so lost now. n/t

[uppityperson]

20. I think we're arguing cross purposes here, or hope so.

If going to war is the necessary of 2 evils, etc etc etc, of course the deaths must be taken into consideration in arriving at that conclusion. Of course it must be part of the decision and anyone who says "oh those don't matter", don't take those into account, don't worry your beautiful mind thinking about that is just plain stupid in my book. Or evil. (Edited to add, I am not calling you stupid or evil, but saying that anyone who goes to war without considering the risks, pro/con, is stupid and or evil)

[QueenOfCalifornia]

23. I am wondering

why you defend this woman so? Question Everything - I have had several run-ins with you and it appears, even when you are faced with enormous and mounting FACTS, you take the contrarian path and want to argue with everyone no matter how wrong you are.

FACT: Barbara Bush doesn't give a damned about the people who are dying anyplace... and she didn't give a shit about the people in the Superdome after Katrina:

"Almost everyone I’ve talked to says we're going to move to Houston. What I’m hearing which is sort of scary is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality. And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she chuckles slightly) is working very well for them." Barbara Bush

Barbara Bush's reaction at losing a daughter? She played golf and never discussed it with Dubya. It was as if her daughter had never been. She has a screw loose.

[uppityperson]

24. She didn't say it>>She said it but didn't mean it that way>>No she didn't.

Indeed.

[flordehinojos]

21. check out these links...

Published on Sunday, May 23, 2004 by the New York Times

Michael Moore's Candid Camera
by Frank Rich

But why should we hear about body bags, and deaths, and how many, what day it's gonna happen, and how many this or what do you suppose? Or, I mean, it's, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? And watch him suffer."
— Barbara Bush on "Good Morning America," March 18, 2003
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0523-04.htm


Like Mother, Like Son
Why doesn’t President Bush feel obligated to meet with Cindy Sheehan during his vacation?
Remember this statement by his mother, Barbara Bush, on Good Morning America in March 2003:
Why should we hear about body bags, and deaths, and how many, what day it’s gonna happen, and how many this or what do you suppose? Oh, I mean, it’s not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?
The apple hasn’t fallen far from the tree.

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/19/like-mother-like-son/

[baldguy]

3. If you're not white, "christian", have a trust fund & vote Republican - you're not a human being.