Gen "Z" and the dumbification of America

[frustrated_lefty]

This is partly in response to a thread on this forum, partly in response to a pervasive attitude in society at large. It's been argued that kids are getting dumber and dumber. They have a 20 second attention span, enough for a sound byte, and a total lack of interest in "higher" thinking.

Don't get me wrong here....I kind of buy into that stereotype. But, I'm trying to shift perspective. It seems to me, a young person growing up in this world we are responsible for doesn't have much reason to buy into our paradigms. We gave them a stupifying deficit, we gave them global warming, we gave them toxic toys from China, we gave them MRSA and V/MRSA. We came up with the notion of peak oil, while we basically wrote off patents for environmentally clean vehicles. We invade countries and start wars on the basis of lies. We torture people and claim we're the good guys.

I have to wonder if the kids seem "dumb" because they don't listen to us. And, then, I think, why should they listen to us? They don't buy our paradigms, because our paradigms got us where we are today. So, maybe there is hope. Maybe this new generation is creating its own set of paradigms, its own truths, its own way of being in the world.

I could be full of crap! But, I have to wonder, and speculate, maybe the "dumb" kids will save us from our folly?

[renie408]

1. I hear it. I don't buy into it.

When I was in high school, I took AP classes for the last two years. I was in the top ten in my class and consistently had a better than 4.0 GPA. My son is a junior in high school now and is doing the same thing. But the classes he is taking seem MUCH harder than what I took. It could be just my memory failing me, but his courses seem much tougher. He also spent the day with John Spratt's staff for career day, writes LTTE's and just seems a lot smarter than I did at the same age. And he watches MTV and spends time IMing with his friends and has My Space and Facebook pages and plays sax in a Ska band.

This generation isn't any dumber. There were kids who didn't apply themselves when I was in school and kids that did. That hasn't changed. I would imagine that the same proportions hold true today.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

2. I agree, just based on my now in college daughter and her friends.

I coached her and some classmates for an Odyssey of the Mind competition when she was in 5th grade. Those kids were SHARP and loved the mental challenges the competition provided.

She's played four separate musical instruments in Band and Orchestra, taken advanced classes in all disciplines and yes, watched MTV, played video games and has a My Space and Facebook page, like your son. And seems to assimilate this all while keeping a core value system which makes me very proud.

She and the girls she ran with in HS were all trying to keep their GPA's up and it was sometimes pretty competitive. They were also incredibly focused on what they needed to do in HS to provide a good educational foundation for their futures.

She and her college friends are currently reading, on their own time, Shelley, Vonnegut, Camus, Sartre and more. She has actually steered me to a couple of contemporary authors, of whom I would not have known without her suggestions.

To say she seems a lot smarter than me at that age in an understatement!

MKJ

[Toots]

3. better than 4.0 GPA

And what exactly might that be? I know they have lowered standards for receiving all grades but don't recall anything higher than a 4.0 grade.

[CrispyQ]

7. I think they get extra points for an A+.

When I was a kid you had to get a 93 or above to get an A. I think the break point is now a 90.

I don't have children, so it's hard for me to judge where today's youth is at. I hope the previous posters are correct, because we are leaving this generation with immense challenges.

[hfojvt]

20. I was kinda proud though

I read 3 or 4 scholarship applications and the kids all had these 4.03 and 4.1 GPAs, but my ACT score was better than theirs :woohoo: and I did not even do THAT well on the ACT which I took as a junior.

[Bigmack]

4. Two societies in one country/world....

One getting smarter and the other just getting dumber and dumber.

The only question is.... who is outbreeding who?

See the DVD "Idiocracy".

[flashl]

5. IMHO, the paradigms have always been skewed

in the manner which we give "value" to some set of "attributes". Over the years, the value sets and exalted "worth" of one human being over another never translated to true communal needs. This is how we find ourselves today with one group of citizens earning $10,000 per hours and another unable to find a job.

There is something patently dysfunctional in this society, I believe the kids are smart enough to know it therefore they opt out.

[Bitwit1234]

6. I blame the fact that the kids are not made to study

teachers can't control classes and the ones who do want to learn are left out in the cold. It is a shame. The world is out pacing our country in learning. We see it all the time in tests. We see it all the time in the stupidity of the kids on TV.

My son and daughter elected to home school their children. They were not genius's, but they got higher grade classification than children who would be in their grade level. Example, One grandson who was in sixth grade level had high school math grades. And why, mostly because they had discipline in school and they had the luxury to study in peace and quiet.

While I was working, one of the women I worked with had to bring a teen ager to work. She had been suspended from school, why, because they wouldn't behave in class. I asked the girl, what's the problem. She said well every body else is throwing books and stuff around the room and threatening the teacher, I can't learn anyway so I might as well join in. See what I mean.

[Deja Q]

19. Teachers can't, partly due to rubbish laws.

Therefore there can be no control.

Hell, we allow some politicians to cite religion and religious parables, yet it's wrong to cite other religious parables from the same religion in return because it's not "politically correct". Well, they did it. Why can't we? Double standards are not nearly as tasty as Doublemint gum.

Never mind corporations giving those outsourced countries a helping hand in education as well.

[QC]

8. It's a mixed bag.

I teach in a community college, mostly blue-collar students, a mix of ages, races, background, etc. I have been teaching for nearly twenty years in a pretty wide variety of settings, from the place where I am now to the research universities where I did my graduate study to a boarding school and a small liberal arts college.

On the positive side, I find current students to be much more tolerant than in the past. Not even ten years ago, for example, when my lit students figured out that Whitman was gay (which doesn't take long) there were always some people scandalized. Silly, yes, but it happened. Now, the more common attitude is, "so what, he liked guys, lots of guys do."

My current "traditional students" (meaning 18 and 19 years old) also have formidable technical skills, particularly when it comes to research, since they have been Googling all their lives. (However, they're not so good at evaluating the information they find, so that a homepage on Geocities called "Suzy's Little Corner of the Web" is just as authoritative as the BBC or the New England Journal of Medicine.)

Another positive is that they tend to be quite kind and personable, and they appreciate the help and attention we give them. I really like these kids a lot.

There are also some pretty disturbing negatives, though.

The big one has to do with the whole "helicopter parents" phenomenon that is the talk of college campuses now. There are now about as many parents as students at orientation (I would have died a thousand deaths if my mom and dad had come to orientation) and when we do advising, parents tend not just to sit in on the sessions but to make their children's schedules. The actual student is nothing but an onlooker. (This kind of thing is even happening after college--lots of employers report getting calls from parents complaining that Little Billy is working too much and Little Tiffany needs a raise.)

As a result of this kind of infantilizing, the general maturity level now is the lowest I have seen. Issues in the larger world mean nothing, as do deadlines and the specifics of assignments. Students are far more likely now to disappear from a class the moment it becomes challenging. If they don't immediately grasp how to do something, then it's just not important. Besides, it's gotta be the teacher's fault anyway, since Mommy and Daddy have always told them how brilliant they are.

There is also an unconscious but maddening sort of incivility afoot lately. Now, the professor at the front of the room is more or less like someone on TV. Students openly engage in conversation, play with the computers, text their friends, take phone calls, roam around the room, etc. We spend the first couple of weeks of every semester dealing with this.

As I said, I love my job and my students, but I fear for them when I consider the rude awakening the larger world has in store for them.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

9. My daughter got a scholarship at a college 2000 miles away.

To cover the rest, we cobbled together a couple of student loans, but she still needs to hold a job while she carries a full course load.

As much as we praised her, we always reminded her when it came to real world situations, like being pulled over by a cop or interviewing for a job, her GPA will not get her out of a ticket or get her hired.

She seriously would have been horrified if we'd attended orientation with her, I can't imagine not letting her experience this on her own, even though I miss her terribly. I keep hoping she'll change her mind and come to school in state, but she's establishing her own life, and although it's been difficult for her and us, I think she's justifiably proud of herself.

Here's where I fit into your description of doting parents, though. If she called and asked to come back home and go to a local college, my first instinct would be to say absolutely. My husband, though, would probably have the fatherly discussion with her about sticking it out, which is something he's instilled in her through the years, the not quitting thing.

She's also very politically and globally astute, perhaps my influence. :-)

Interesting post, thanks for providing your observations, I thought we were more the norm than the exception.

And, especially, thanks for devoting your time and energy to educating and supporting the young people of this country. I hope my daughter has the good fortune to have someone of your caliber teaching her.

:toast: MKJ

[QC]

14. Thanks so much!

Sounds like your daughter is doing great!

[liberation]

10. I hear ya...

Now I am in industry, but when I was teaching back in grad school... Jesus tap dancing on a pogo stick! The number of parents who would actually show to complain to my office was astounding.

The trend was especially bad when it came to parents of pre-med students, it seemed that all the universe life force revolves around their little Mary or Jimmy wanting to be a doctor.

So I don't know if the new generations are dumber. They are however far more shielded that at least my generation was, and they have an incredible sense of entitlement. They come from households in which people operate by "barking." It is always those assholes who think that acting like a human bulldog gets them everything they feel entitled to. And that also now is becoming part of the "parental" arsenal... bark at the teacher to get your way. After all barking seems to be far easier than working hard and mastering a subject.

And on top of that, I had to deal with the fact that a lot of students seemed to have an excuse for everything and it was always something or someone else's fault but their very own laziness and stupidity....

[DaveJ]

11. I agree with most of that, but the parents

The parents have a hard job. Regarding your entitlement idea, I agree 100%. I do not know where they get that. The average parents has to work like a dog for everything they have. But you do know that these kids come home and blame the teachers for all their problems, and then they go back to school and blame their parents for all their problems. Reagrding hte 'barking,' a parent can give a kid the advice they need, and say it calmly 500 times, but after that I think it's normal to get frustrated.

I do agree that it is ridiculous when parents act like their kids' "life revolves" around their degree. It's ultimately the kids' decision to make not the parents'.

[glowing]

12. I really think it depends on resources within the home, community, and

school. A family that pushes a child to succeed and sets expectations often has better results. If a family sets standards and is able to work with the child on home assignments, the child will have a definite edge (it helps if the parent is educated enough to keep up with the child in this case... if a parent cannot help their children with calculus and fundamental writing skills, then there will be a time when the parent can only give moral support, rather than guiding tutelage). A community that has more wealth will have an upper hand with hiring and maintaining good teachers, equipment, and support staff that is needed. A school that sets standards of achievements for each child from beginning to end and expects the children to learn, rather than act as baby-sitters, will achieve unparalleled academic achievements.

I think there is an underhandedness with the NCLB. Setting a testing standard is, in theory, a good idea. In reality, children are taught to a test. There is no analytical or critical thinking skills involved. Also, there are different skills that are important and should be recognized and expanded on as a child develops. In our everyday lives, we have a far reaching array of skills that help a community on a whole. There are some who are gifted in the arts, some in science and math, other's with literature, theology/ philosophy, psychology, and other's who are gifted communicators. These skills are all important to recognize. We have a duty to the people in this country to help them achieve their specialized skills to their fullest aptitude. This is not done today, and a school district that has money for arts and music and sports is dissipating faster and faster in order to meet the requirements of this horrendous NCLB program.

[CrispyQ]

13. ...

[Warren DeMontague]

15. What's the matter with kids today?

Grumble Grumble Grumble. Get off my lawn, whippersnappers!

[Initech]

16. My generation may be dumb, but eh... um.... I lost my train of thought.

[arrested_president]

18. HA!!

you funny

[Deja Q]

17. To speculate based on an incomplete set of information may result in an inaccurate conclusion.

That isn't a very bright thing to do either.

As for perspectives, I see and understand far more than what many on DU would even fathom. And if I posted them, even for the sake of conversation, I'd be branded a troll if not banned. No doubt other people have similar high thoughts, which for similar reasons refuse to even mention -- because it's not toeing the line; the phrase "that's a minority opinion on DU" has been read in some posts before.

Did we know at the time we entrusted our manufacturing to a country (China) that didn't particularly care for us or our freedoms would end up poisoning so many items?

We also came up with the notion of "peak oil". But for every other piece of media everybody refuses to believe or discuss, why is "peak oil" automatically branded as almost a religious edict, without even bothering to look up references or articles that have reasonable counter-arguments? Or is it stupid of me to suggest there's more than one side to every topic?