Who Said This?

[Ripley]

All our knowledge has its origins in our perceptions.

The usual approach of science of constructing a mathematical model cannot answer the questions of why there should be a universe for the model to describe. Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?

As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.

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Now, if certifiable geniuses have said those things, how is it that people who spend enormous volumes of time typing smug condescending posts to the contrary on a message board (instead of actually doing genius stuff) have even the slightest credibility on matters of knowledge and reality?

Closed minds exist across all political persuasions and they are quite the hindrance to Humanity’s evolution for the better.

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Leonardo da Vinci
Stephen Hawking
Albert Einstein

[Elspeth]

1. Hence the reason "Cognitive Science" is impossible field

But I digress...

What was your point in regard to DU?

[Ripley]

3. My Point.

Is simple. DU has many civil wars and most end up in black and white shoutdowns.

Human Experience on Earth has NEVER been black and white, but pretty kaleidoscopic. I was giving examples from great thinkers from science who are also either spiritual or artistic who utilize the full potential of their brains.

[Mike03]

4. Interesting

When I was overwhelmed last week, I got out these two mini kaleidoscopes I had since I was a child. They are like pendulums, in a way. Things go nuts, and then they regroup.

But the real question is whether Complexity will change the system.

[Elspeth]

12. Is this about the primary battles?

Or something more fundamental?

[Mike03]

15. Good question

I have a feeling the OT poster is trying to hit at something more primal, but I truly am not sure. Only he/she knows.

[Elspeth]

16. It is somewhat mysterious.

But I do like a good mystery. :)

[Ripley]

19. Mysteriously talking about the mystery!

Oof. Primaries. UFOs. Government enforced medication. Top Secret breeches. All of that.

:)

[Elspeth]

20. And tarot cards and palm reading and UFOs....

Ah, this is about Dennis, isn't it...:)

[Mike03]

2. Em, the Buddha?

At least the first sentence.

Penrose or Hoffstader or Feynman or Woit for the second sentence? Or Einstein, Hobbs, Sarte?

What is your point? Don't we all grapple with how to assess reality, from the moment we are born to the last breath we take?

If you have a better way of assessing reality and making peace with our complex lives, please share it. We could save ourselves an enormous amount of struggling, depression, confusion and self doubt it the answers were so clear.

[Ripley]

7. No, da Vinci.

But a good guess.

I loved Feynman's book "The Meaning of it All" - quite the rebel he was.

My point was very far from saying "I have a better way." It was simply a reminder to those who worship at the alter of scientific so-called reasoning that not EVERYTHING can be explained by theoretic testing over time.

There is much mystery to life and I submit that folks should quit hyperventilating that THEY know it all.

That's all.

[El Supremo]

5. Leonardo, Hawking and Einstein

That's why I hate politics. It has no basis on reality.

[Mike03]

13. Is it possible to love politics, while completely accepting

that it has no basis in "reality". It's just a game?

[Mike03]

6. Thanks for posting this

These are the sorts of posts that are truly stimulating and challenging.

Wish we had more of them.

[Ripley]

9. Yes.

Open minds are how problems get solved. Open minds are where enlightenment occurs.

Those who accomplish on a high level whether they are physicists or musicians or artists or cosmologists or linguists or biologists or those from ANY field of study usually have one thing in common. They admit there is something unknowable. And the uncertainty does not equate to being "stupid" or "ignorant" or "mystical woo-woo nutcakes ready to die for a Comet ride" but to being Human.

Ego gets in the way. A lot.

[Mike03]

10. It's the unknowable aspect of life

that seems to make it worth living, at least for me.

Thank god for the Unknown.

Thanks for your post.

[Mike03]

11. Why doesn't our society seem to respect

the unknown more?

Our society seems to excell at killing the human spirit.

[Ripley]

17. You nailed it there.

Our society does indeed excel at killing the Human Spirit. Money and Youth above all else. Gossip and Hatred abound. Keep up with the Jones' used to be the American Way, then it evolved over the last two decades into: Beat the living shit out of Your neighbor/coworker/sibling and rub their noses in it!

There are far smarter folks than I at DU who occasionally post the Big Stories about the how and why this is happening. Here's an example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2146760&mesg_id=2146760

Respect doesn't seem to be a value anymore.

[Mike03]

18. Is it also fear and isolation?

Our society seems to be geared towards making us more alone and compartmentalized.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. " Once upon a time, Chuang Tzu dreamed that he was a butterfly,

"Once upon a time, Chuang Tzu dreamed that he was a butterfly, a butterfly fluttering about, enjoying itself. It did not know that it was Chuang Tzu. Suddenly he awoke with a start and he was Chuang Tzu again. But he did not know whether he was Chuang Tzu who had dreamed that he was a butterfly, or whether he was a butterfly dreaming that he was Chuang Tzu. Between Chuang Tzu and the butterfly there must be some distinction." Chuang Tzu

[Ripley]

14. Beautiful!

Thanks.

[rug]

21. I'm certain it's not from any recent State of the Union speech.