Conyer's HR 676 (Medicare for everyone, pretty much)--let's have it out.

[blondeatlast]

What, if any, are objections? What can we do, really do, to help it pass--it's going to take far more than AstroTurf campaigns and we are up against Big Fi, Big Insurance, and probably Big Pharma?

I'd love to see "America's Health" be a non-issue next year, wouldn't you? Even if W vetoes--let's make it a big enough issue NOW that the opponent is on the defensive.

Let's just brainstorm and have it out--anyone game?

Thomas link for the bill, which now has 86(!) cosponsors:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.00676:

We can do this, I really think so.

[Hippo_Tron]

1. Here's my objection, the notion that it's the only possible solution

The health insurance industry is a cartel. It's inefficient and highly profitable. Getting rid of the industry entirely and passing HR 676 would certainly be more efficient.

Here's another solution. Pass something similar to what Edwards/Hillary/Obama are proposing with keeping the current system in place, subsidizing low income people, and forcing insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing conditions at the same price. With one crucial difference. Use anti-trust legislation to break up the cartel. Force real competition in the insurance industry, so that it is efficient and profits are minimal.

My problem is that a lot of DUers base their support on single payer based on the standpoint that privatized health insurance is morally wrong. That isn't where I base my thought process from. I base my thought process on a goal of universal coverage and the best possible quality of health care.

Single payer may be the most efficient system possible but I'm not entirely convinced of that. Furthermore, I'm not sure how we address this future scenario: Lets say that we have a Republican warmonger in office with sky high approval ratings and he wants to start a war and the public is firmly behind him. What is going to stop Congress from gradually taking money out of the health system to fund the war?

[blondeatlast]

3. Aren't the other proposals mandated insurance?

I freely admit to being a little less educated on those, but I am familiar with Romney's plan in Massachusetts and haven't heard much good about it.

I'm more in favor of universal CARE--but I'm not entirely convinced that single-payer is the ONLY way to accomplish this, either.

It's good to have a dialog when there is something concrete to start it off, that's why I posted this. I'm hoping it will get pretty lively.

[Hippo_Tron]

4. Mandates are one option

But the key thing about MittCare is that it does nothing about the cartel. It's unreasonable to force people to buy health insurance when the price is so inflated due to profits.

You hear Republican politicians complain all the time about how OPEC is a cartel and that's the reason oil prices are so high. Health insurance is the same way, except that it's even worse. There's no Saudi Arabia in health insurance that somewhat moderates the price so that they can please America.

Cartels have incentives to produce the lowest quality of service possible and to charge as high a price as possible. That can't happen in competitive markets. If insurance companies tried to do what they are doing now in a competitive market, they would be out of business in a day.

[OzarkDem]

6. This doesn't mandate Medicare enrollment

Private insurance still has the option to offer something better to the public. Not everyone wants to have Medicare - style coverage and may opt for something more expensive.

[Hippo_Tron]

7. Private insurance can only cater to the rich if Medicare is free

People aren't going to have the incentive to pay for insurance twice, except for the rich who might want something done right away.

[lame54]

8. More laws that do nothing to control their greed

In 1991 California passed the "Fair Claims Practice Act". It took the Insurance Industry less than a year to get around this very tough piece of legislation. I know this from personal experience, my son had just been diagnosed with Dermatomyositis and I used that act often the first year to get claims paid. It put a time limit (30 days) in which Insurance Companies had to pay claims. Well the second year into my son's illness they got around it by using a little tactic of their own called putting your case in "review". This was worse than not paying a claim, in effect it put his treatment on hold. Treatment needed to stay alive. We will never never be able to manage or health care cost and provide health care for all until we take the insurance company out of the game. It's a game of greed for them and life and death for us. It's time for us to stop playing this deadly game with the school yard bully. Blue Cross had no problem taking $360 a month from my paycheck for years (in the 80's that was a lot money and represented over a quarter of my monthly income) but when it came time for me to get what I paid for they welshed on their promises.

Here is a great book that might give you a little more information on HMO

http://home.earthlink.net/~suzannetolbert /

patty lame's wife

[lame54]

2. Here's a list of the sponsors

contact your rep if he is not on this list
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2363140&mesg_id=2363140

[OzarkDem]

5. My Rep is on the list

Looks like the Dems in Congress are getting behind it.