Sometimes I quake with anger at the Mormon Church

[NobleCynic]

Not Mormons necessarily, but the church.

A good friend of my family happens to be a Mormon. He also happens to be Tongan. While that particular mix never made much sense to me, I try to be tolerant of other's religious beliefs. So, he was about to leave on his mission, one of the rites of passage in the Mormon faith, and he was invited to a church get together with some of the church elders. Which is the first time said elders have seen him in person. 2 days later his mission is canceled because his temperament is too hostile for a mission, with the incident cited being him flirting with a girl a year and a half ago in a fairly typical high school manner before he had graduated from high school.

What particularly enrages me about this incident was that they canceled his mission two days before he was going to leave, after he had quit his job, sold his car, moved out of his apartment, and donated most of his worldly possessions and wealth to the church. And they waited until after this to tell him his mission was canceled. Two days before he was set to leave.

The worst of it all is the sinking feeling I have that when he met the church elders it was only because of his skin color that his mission was canceled.

Nevada's nickname used to be the Mississippi of the West. True, we have a different kind of religious right out here, Mormons more than Evangelicals, but in too many ways it still feels all too accurate.

[Kali]

1. Lotta Mormon Pacific Islanders

Surely they knew his ethnicity?

[NobleCynic]

5. I'm not too familiar with the structure of the church

but the impression I was given was that he was only well known in the local temple but that missions are decided upon at the ... I know this isn't the correct word for it, but it works for this purpose ... diocese level.

I know the Mormon church has been evangelizing and converting at one of the highest rates of any religion throughout the 3rd world, but it still gives me a mental disconnect. Mostly because of the Mormons I see in day to day life, and the positions the church held as recently as the 1950's, I associate it pretty heavily with being caucasian. I realize I live out in the sticks, but I only know less than a half dozen non-white Mormons, and it is hard not to mentally associate Mormon with being white. Especially considering the vitriolic anti-immigrant talk I overhear. I know this isn't correct or accurate worldwide, but in Nevada it is fairly accurate. And yeah, I know it is a form of stereotyping.

[Danieljay]

2. well, a least he still might get his own planet to live on when he dies. Cool.

[partylessinOhio]

3. Mormon underwear:

Mormon undergarments
From MormonWiki

Mormon garments, also referred to as Mormon undergarments or Mormon underwear, are undergarments worn by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as a symbol of sacred covenants made with God. In Mormon culture the term “garments” has been adapted to mean these special undergarments.

When members of the church are initiated in the Mormon temple for the first time, they begin wearing these undergarments in addition to or in place of other underwear and promise to continue wearing them night and day for the rest of their lives as a covenant with God that they will remain faithful and obedient to the commandments of God and to the special covenants made inside the temple. The garments are considered sacred symbols of a person's covenant with God and are treated with the same respect the wearer has for their covenants.

The garments are white, symbolizing purity, (except for some designed to be worn by those in active military service which are olive green) and are made of several different fabrics: cotton, cotton/polyester, silk, etc. They are either one-piece or two-piece in style. The two piece consists of a top and a bottom, the top covering the shoulders and the navel and the bottom extending to the knees and the one-piece style covers all of the same areas of the body. This is to promote modesty of dress. They are worn directly next to the skin and completely covered by outer clothing. The garments are removed when considered proper for the activity. Naturally, bathing and swimming necessitate their removal, but they may be removed for other strenuous activities such as football, basketball, or other vigorous exercise as deemed appropriate by the wearer.

The practice of wearing religious clothing begins with Adam and Eve. The Bible states, “unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them” (Genesis 3:21) when they discovered their nakedness. Mormons wear their garments in this same context, as an instruction from God.

http://www.mormonwiki.com/mormonism/Mormon_undergarments

[TlalocW]

6. I had a friend get me a pair of those for Christmas

She was able to convince a store in Salt Lake City that she was Mormon and had left her ID card at home.

I haven't been around the house most Saturdays to do this, but some day when I just fill like sitting on the couch, I'm going to wear nothing but them and wait for the Mormons to come a-calling and answer the door holding a beer and some porn. Maybe have a few stains on my "garments" as well.

"It's good to see the young generation taking their religion so seriously! Can I offer you gents a Hostess Twinkie?"

TlalocW

[Rosemary2205]

7. No "ID" card is required here.

in fact they are available over the internet.

[TlalocW]

12. Stop taking away what little joy I have in life

:P

TlalocW

[ironflange]

17. Race isn't a factor, here's a young black Mormon

She's wearing Garments, to boot.

http://tinyurl.com/2eafuy

[Rosemary2205]

4. In my neck of the woods most of the missionaries are brown skinned.

I doubt it had anything to do with his skin color. But I agree 2 days is assinine and that is not normal for the mormon church. Normally these interviews are done WELL in advance. I have a passing familiarity with the Mormon church and if the facts you stated represent the full reality of the situation then he and his parents should be able to raise a fuss and at least get his prepaid fees applied to a future mission, once they go over a few heads.

This is really not normal and either someone is not telling you the full story or else one person in the "cog" fell through - in which case a plea over their heads will fix the problem.

[NobleCynic]

8. It very easily could be just a local minister

Or an administrative foul up. Maybe I'm not getting the full story, but the Mormon church in Northern Nevada has a bit of a history. I don't know if that history is completely true or justified, or just the gossip of other denominations, but I hear similar things from non-Mormons and jack Mormons frequently.

In any case I hope he get those fees applied to a future mission like you say.

(Edited for grammar)

[Rosemary2205]

9. The normal process takes 6 months to a year.

After HS graduation a mormon can apply for a Temple recommend, this requires an interview with the bishop (local minister) and the stake president (sort of like a diocese). Then a trip to a temple to get the endowment. Once that is done a mormon can apply for a mission. Part of the application package is a letter from the bishop and from the stake president. The processing of that application takes 3-6 months and further interviews can be requested but aren't usually. Once the mission is approved the mormon is sent a package containing information of where they will be sent and on what date they are to report to the training center. Normally there is an interview with the bishop not long before they leave for the training center which is really just a formality and isn't intended to be any sort of final approval.

It's my hunch that the young man in question got into a bit of trouble of some sort, or broke one or more of his temple covenants in order for him to lose his mission just days before he was to leave. If a bishop has any concern about a young man's ability to sexually abstain during a mission then he can raise a fuss -- which would automatically require a trip to the stake president also.... in order to stop a mission just days before leaving would require a bishop and stake president to agree and to call Salt Lake. This would be considered something that is not taken lightly.

[NobleCynic]

10. Maybe I'm reading more into this than I should

and maybe I'm not getting the full story from him. He seems like a good kid, but he also seems like the type that might be popular with the girls.

The issue of timing of notification and the donations are what are really riled me up.

[bluemarkers]

11. it's my understanding

that their ministers and bishops are prophets and seers... so if they didn't know in advance, they should have...

If they were such good people, they would have forgiven the young man, or approached him a year and a half ago. timing is everything

[FreeState]

18. Agree 100% he did something

The only reasons people are not allowed to go on LDS missions are "sexual sin" or health issues (depression etc). If you have sex even once you can not go on a mission (this is a newer rule that has been in effect for about 5 years).

[liberal renegade]

13. brainwashing you out of

10% of your income. What a great scam!

[Arugula Latte]

15. IMO, "Great Scam" can be applied to any and all religions.

I should start my own religion and just flat out call it The Church of the Great Scam. Then I can get all sorts of tax exemptions, etc. When people question anything I say I can just scream: "How DARE you! That is my Faith!" :rofl:

[Kali]

19. in fairness, the church is pretty good about taking care of members

when there is a problem - death or loss of job, etc

Don't any other religions tithe? Isn't it biblical?

[Momgonepostal]

28. Yes, the principle of tithing is in the bible, in Malachi

Other religions do tithe, but I can't really remember which.

[lovuian]

14. He got a wake up call of what the church's mission REALLY is

Thou shalt covet thy followers goods
and then screw him
and say be more devoted next time and take anger management class


Your not good enough your not devoted your a sinner

get the whole manipulation game

I feel like they set him free... The Sleeper needs to Awaken here

[Momgonepostal]

16. I find it tough to believe his mission was cancelled because...

of his skin color or ethnicity. There are quite a lot of Tongan people who are LDS, who I'm sure serve missions. I've known other missionaries from the Pacific Islands, Samoan, Hawaiian, Filipino...as well as other missionaries who are non-white.

It's a shame this couldn't all have been resolved or at least dealt with earlier, but I suspect that the issue was not due to his appearance but rather something to do with him.

I've been on an LDS mission and know the drill. You sit down with your local leaders for interviews before you even get your call, not 2 days before you leave. This girl in his past may have brought something to the church leaders' attention and they called him in to get his side of the story, then didn't like what they heard. I highly doubt his mission was cancelled because of "flirting."

[FreeState]

20. I agree

Im a return missionary also and the only way you would have your mission canceled right before you leave for the MTC is if you confess to sexual sin (read premarital sex). As of about 5 years ago it does not matter if you confess of the sin you can not go on a mission weather you have repented or not.

[Momgonepostal]

21. I wondered that as well...

or if he maybe had violence issues. At any rate, being a flirt doesn't keep you out of the mission field.

Welcome to DU! It's nice to have more LDS progressives in the house. :hi:

[NobleCynic]

23. No history of violence

In my experience he was always a mellow kid

[NobleCynic]

22. That might be the case

I can't say for certain, not being a member of congregation. I may not have gotten the whole story, it very well could be something along those lines.

I will also admit I am perhaps too ready to believe the worst about any organized religion.

The timing of it all just screams foul to me.

[Orangepeel]

24. racism in the Mormon church is like polygamy -- part of the history but since repudiated

it is my understanding that the Mormon church used to teach that Black people were cursed because being Black was the "mark of Cain" (and then there's some convoluted logic that Noah's daughter-in-law carried this curse on after the flood).

Like polygamy, the "real" Mormon church has renounced that view, but fundamentalist Mormons still hold it.

But then, I have no idea whether this has anything to do with your friend and his mission.

[Hawkowl]

25. Racism

Not just blacks, but all brown people, including Native Americans, are considered children of the devil. It is not just a mission, but basically an initiation rite to the Mormon club. It's like being a made man in the mafia. Fellow Mormons will steer business, and jobs your way. They will bend over backwards to help you and in your family--if you're in the club.

Sounds like they didn't want this brown guy interbreeding in their club.

[Momgonepostal]

27. Please, I've been on more LDS missions and have known...

more LDS missionaries than you have. There are no policies, stated or unstated against "brown" missionaries. In fact, the church likes sending out non-white missionaries because it makes the church look more diverse. My mom had a set of LDS missionaries knock on her door about a week ago, and one of them was African American. Do you suppose his church leaders didn't notice and sent him out by mistake?

[Kali]

29. I don't know - I think the LDS hold Native Americans as some special

class - Blacks yes they were banned until fairly recently.

[roody]

26. I hope he dumps that dumb religion.

Talk about burned!!