More Bad News On The Recession (soon to be Depression) Front

[ThomWV]

http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/26/real_estate/Case_Shiller_down/index.htm?cnn=yes

"NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Home prices fell 6.7 percent in October, compared with a year ago, according to the S&P/Case-Shiller 10-city home-price index, a record drop as housing markets continued to deteriorate.

It was the largest drop in more than 16 years and marked the 10th consecutive month of price depreciation and 23 months of decelerating returns.

"No matter how you look at these data, it is obvious that the current state of the single-family housing market remains grim," said Robert J. Shiller, chief economist at MacroMarkets in a release."

[fascisthunter]

1. Conservative Economics

and I will keep repeating it everywhere.

This is what America gets when conservatives decide what's good for this country. Contrast this with FDR's plan.

We need progressive economics, a balance between socilaism and capitalism.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. That May Be Too Strongly Worded

The real need is tightly regulated capitalism with social programs directed at the middle class and lower for the future. It doesn't require the economy to take on socialist traits, only that the gov't structure safety nets and "enforced" savings plans so the destitution level goes down among retirees& poverty level goes down among children.

Then, the gov't needs to be highly vigilant about regulating business behaviors and restricting corporation size when any reasonable potential of elimination of competition is extant.

This then still remains a capitalist system, (like your FDR reference), that has long term protections against the excesses of a wholly unfettered form of it.
The Professor

[BearSquirrel2]

24. I liken it to football ...

Yes, football is a very brutal game. However, there are a set of rules for ethical play. Without the rules there would simply be no point in playing. Without referees to adjudicate the rules, there would be no point in having rules.

Imagine a libertarian game of football. How many deaths do you think there would be in the 1st quarter?

[knitter4democracy]

2. Already there in Michigan.

Our unemployment and foreclosure numbers are the same or almost the same as during the Great Depression. Times are really bad up here.

[leeroysphitz]

16. Is that true? Do you have I source I could use for that?

Thanks.

[knitter4democracy]

17. Here's one:

http://www.ns.umich.edu/htdocs/releases/story.php?id=1069

It's the original source for the later news stories, I think.

Edited to add another--Michigan's in top ten for foreclosure totals and rates:
http://www.realtytrac.com/ContentManagement/pressrelease.aspx?ChannelID=9&ItemID=2932&accnt=64847

[leeroysphitz]

18. Thanks K4d nt

[L0oniX]

34. I moved out of Michigan back in the 80's because I saw the deterioration of jobs.

I am glad I did.

[demnan]

3. Well my taxes went down

so my mortgage payment decreased by about $20 this month. Not that that is much help, but it is telling. (I have a fixed rate mortgage on the interest).

One reason Miami fares so badly as well is that the insurance is so high to live there due to hurricane damage that no one can afford it except the very rich. Same thing happened to Naples, FL booming housing market a couple of years ago.

[Crazy Dave]

4. That $20 a month adds up years down the road

Better than paying $20 more. The bad part of all this is that for most people, having a little extra equity in their homes was always a good safety net for many reasons, job relocation, a loan for emergencies, etc. It puts a hardship on those folks.

[Bandit]

8. I don't understand

My mortage payments are for money I borrowed on my home. It has absolutely nothing to do with my property tax. How does property tax effect your mortage? I can understand if property assessments go down, your taxes would go down but not your mortage..What am I missing here?

[onyourleft]

10. Some mortgages escrow money for property tax...

...payments. If the tax drops so does the mortgage payment.

[flyarm]

5. Miami Fla over 12% down...Fla is in bad shape folks..eom

[dysfunctional press]

7. supply & demand, and they overbuilt.

pretty simple stuff, that.

[roamer65]

6. Get ready for Helicopter Ben...

to dump billions more to the banks. Hyperinflation, here we come.

[Yavapai]

9. The value of our Dollar has dropped about 30%

and we hear very little about it, WHY???

Remember after the Viet Nam war, Carter was elected and then the huge rate of inflation? I bet as soon as the Democrats take power, this will occur again and just like Carter, the Democrats will take the heat for it, all while the Republicans will take a fiscally responsible rhetoric. Yes, I can see it now....

[Didereaux]

11. absolutely correct. n/t

[NI4NI]

12. Bingo! n/t

[Greyhound]

22. Not likely for one simple reason, in order to hide the real inflation rate

this maladministration eliminated the baseline, the "fixed basket of goods". Because of this it is nearly impossible for the official ROI to exceed 3% - 5%, every time the rate goes up they replace the goods that determine the rate.

In addition to this, the other part of the shell game has been the steady devaluation of our currency, this also has the effect of skewing the inflation rate downward. We have almost reached the limit of this lie, and is why I've been warning of a mass exodus of money out of the country. When the shit really hits the fan, we may well find that there is nothing left but a crumbling infrastructure (with no way to pay for rebuilding it) and paper valuations of worthless companies with all of their assets leveraged to, and beyond, the hilt.

If we do see a ROI higher than that it will be because inflation is accelerating faster than they can redefine it, and that will be a catastrophe. Think Argentina in the 80s.

[Selatius]

28. They junked the fixed basket of goods mechanism when Clinton came to office. Bush merely continued.

Inflation in the 1990s for everyday people is a lot higher than the institutional inflation that's been reported.

[Greyhound]

35. I thought Clinton changed the items, but I could be mistaken. I do distinctly remember

Kindasleazy Rice announcing the "flexible" new system in the rat bastard's first term.

Not that it really matters, I hate all the elitist ruling class assholes and know that Bill Clinton was the best Republik President since Lincoln.

[zbdent]

14. just wait until the credit card bills start coming to the mailbox ...

what with all the energy and food costs factored in to the inflation index like they used to be ...

[flashl]

15. Whether its a depression or recession largely depends on where you are in the economic strata

Foreclosure is driving homelessness across the nation, leaving the nation’s charities scrambling to find homes for tens of thousands of families from coast to coast. And, more frightening than anything else is the fact that the massive wave of foreclosures expected because of the resetting of adjustable rate mortgages (ARMs) has not even hit yet.

Home renters, apartment renters, condo renters are all in the same boat when it comes to foreclosure. When the property is foreclosed on, out the door they go in many cases. Many are upset about the injustice of it all, but they’re still headed out in the street, along with tens of thousands of people who rented property which has now been foreclosed.

Poverty Forum - Apartment Dwellers Caught In A Not So 'Merry Christmas'

According to Yahoo! News, 13,800 people who are younger than 24-years-old have become part of New York City’s homeless population. Minority groups, such as African Americans, Latinos – gays and lesbians and bisexuals have unfortunately become part of New York’s homeless.

Poverty Forum - Young and Homeless

In Detroit, 70 percent of the loans let have been subprime.

Justice Forum - MI: Attorney General accused of ‘grandstanding’

[lonestarnot]

19. 4 bags of groceries $100.00 bucks.

[prolesunited]

23. Our strategy is to shop the sales, develop a price book,

use coupons, grow a garden and create a pantry.

By sitting down with grocery ads and coupons each week, I create my list. We tend to buy only loss leaders and create menus based on what's on sale, not the other way around. We spend less and get more for our money. We also rarely buy any meat, just on occaision for my husband who still eats it. We've saved literally hundreds this year.

[knitter4democracy]

30. We've been doing that, too.

Big Lots has cereal for cheap and spaghetti sauce for when we're in a hurry. Canning has saved us a lot of money this year, too, and makes dinner easier.

If you're going to get meat, the cheapest way to do it is buy in bulk from the farmer. If you get half a beef, it's always cheaper, and often, it's better. We got half a bison last summer to fill the freezer, and we're still going on that one. It'll probably last all year for us.

[dysfunctional press]

33. we've always done it that way.

but we buy lots of meat and fish, because it tastes so good.

[avenger64]

20. I paid off my credit card today.

And just in time. The interest is going to be biting people like a Tiger. These dumbass wall-street hustlers have exposed all of us to their tomfoolery by securitizing those mortgages. The radiation is going to burn us all.

[knitter4democracy]

31. Yay!

:party:

[The Gunslinger]

21. Dont worry the "underpinnings" are strong...

Riiiight. The Decider is just hoping to get out of office before the shit hits the fan and then they can blame it on a Democrat.

[BearSquirrel2]

25. They blamed it on FDR

They blamed FDR for "extending" the last depression. Why not blame Obama?

[The Gunslinger]

26. Just blame Bill Clinton

They always do anyway.

[deacon]

27. bush's 'ownership society' n/t

[SpiralHawk]

29. "No problem. Just withdraw a couple of mil from your Swiss Bank Account." - Commander AWOL

"You noisy proles* are such a bummer. Why don't you quit your moaning and groaning, and just have your butler fly to Switzerland and get you a couple of million bucks in petty cash so you can pay the heating bill and buy some food? That's what we 'elite' republicon homelanders do. Smirk."

- Commander AWOL



*Proles = human beings formerly known as citizens of the United States of America until the republicon homelanders stole the government via fraudulent elections in 2000 and 2004.

[NewJeffCT]

32. biggest drop in 16 years - guess who was president then?

Somebody else named Bush.

[ellie]

36. I just checked

zillow on my house and I owe more than what it is worth. The value has dropped almost $17,000 since I bought it last year. I am glad I am staying put and not wanting to sell or get a second mortgage.

[earth mom]

37. Meanwhile, all those mortgage brokers and speculators are counting their ill gotten gains.

Money they made off the suffering of others.

:grr: