IVAW bus burns! Looks like ARSON!!!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

Bus marked "IVAW" mysteriously totaled by FIRE (1/11/08)
By Bill Perry | 01.12.2008

The bus in this photo, was totaled by fire, around 9:30 pm, Friday night, 1/11/08






This bus, often mired in controversy since the IVAW "Dirty South" tour that left Philly in June, and had Active Duty BBQ's @ Ft Meade, Ft Jackson, Camp Lejeune, Ft Benning, and other Southern Military Posts ( Including an IVAW benefit by Tom Morello, of Rage Against the Machine, and AudioSlave, in Virginia ) as well as backdrop for many a Demonstration, and Ft Drum, NY, organizing parties, has finally died.

This photo shows the huge "Don't Attack Iran" and "Impeach Bush" logos, that let everybody on the highway know just how the occupants felt about the state of the state.

Owner~Operator~Driver ( and Veteran ) Jim Goodnow pulled into a South Jersey Truck Stop, to catch a 3 or 4 hour nap. Jim saw, in retrospect, some suspicious activity outside the bus, and about 20 minutes later, the entire engine compartment, and back of the bus was engulfed in flames. Mr Goodnow speculates that the cause could have been anything from ARSON, to ATTEMPTED MURDER. He plans to notify the ATF Arson Squad on Saturday morning. Stay tuned....

http://www.phillyimc.org/en/2008/01/44128.shtml

This is most upsetting. Jim Goodnow is one of the MOST dedicated veterans for peace in our movement. If anyone wants info on reaching out and helping him following this tragedy, please PM me.
:cry: :cry:

[leftchick]

1. thank god Jim is okay

damn this is awful :(

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. I am just reeling

Yes, JIm is wonderful and I am so thankful he is okay.

Some days it is hard to be a peace activist and stay calm. When I think of how hard JIm has worked, how much money he has spent, how he has basically given up his LIFE to stop this war . . .

And war mongers go after him. And Carlos. And a couple others who haven't advertised their stories. Damn I just can't help but HATE these people.

Here is Jim in June in DC. We met up with him and were on our way to dinner when we saw this sign and had to stop and take a picture.

[salin]

2. Glad that he is okay - and I hope he/they are able to get the

bus (a replacement one) back on the road soon - and I hope that witnesses are found and a culprit caught/arrested.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. I am sure he will need some help

Hopefully a donation link will be set up soon.

[SpiralHawk]

3. More proof that republicon homelanders hate our veterans?

Could be. It always seems to me that just the existance of our US Veterans who served honorably is upsetting to republicon homelander chickenhawks -- Bush, Cheney, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. etc. ad nauseum -- because it makes plain how lacking in integrity the republicons are.

Thus, I'd not be at all surprised to learn that republicon homelanders were behind this attack on our veterans and their bus...not at all.

That's my theory, and until evidence to the contrary manifests, I'm stickin with it...

[EFerrari]

4. That's what I was thinking, too. Hate crime.

There is no depths people like that won't sink to.

Thank goodness he didn't get hurt. A bus can be replaced.

[Occulus]

16. I really hate to inject this into this thread, but I think I need to point it out

This is why Obama's message of "unity" and "reaching out" will not work. There are no "deepest depths" to which these people are unwilling to sink. They will smile at you in the daylight and slit your throat in the darkness. They do not deserve a place at the table, they do not deserve to be reached out to, they do not deserve consideration.

Obama's own "best points" will be his downfall. These people already do not wish to "work together"; they wish to dominate. Obama seems oblivious to that.

[EFerrari]

17. He's not oblivious. It's meant to be reassuring, not true, imho. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. But people who don't pay attention buy into that "reaching out" message

Now if this article was on the front page of the NY Times, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Keeping America ignorant is working well for our politicians and media.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. It's the same mentality that caused those gathering of eagles morans to attack Carlos

They are just evil, sick, twisted human beings.

[EFerrari]

25. Have these haters ever done anything positive?

DU sends flowers, funds emergencies and countless cool things. Those freakers send death threats, harrass sick people, burn down property and deface cars.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Not in my mind

They send me some of the most hateful email I have ever read. I am sure Cindy gets worse email but I don't even like to think about it.

Every website we start - they invade.

They are just plain evil. Hate consumes them.

[EFerrari]

39. I've been listening to BookTv this morning and something really scary

occurred to me.

You know how these evil @ssholes are always projecting their shame, fear and hatred all over us.

Well, today I listened to one wingnut propose that liberals are fascists and then, to another that proposed that CA "liberal" culture produces criminals.

On retro, it sounds like the wingnuttery is ramping up to behavioral displays of exactly incidents like the one you posted. Not only criminal but fascist at bottom. If we don't sit up and take notice, we're making a mistake, imo.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. No doubt in my mind that is exactly what happened.

[951-Riverside]

8. What condition was the Bus in?

How was it maintained?
When was the last time Jim Goodnow inspected the bus?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-02-21-rita-busfire_x.htm

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. I have ridden on it

Granted I am not a mechanic but by all appearances and from what Jim has said, he took good care of this bus. And it appeared to be in great shape to me.

[leftchick]

9. link to his website

and background for those unfamiliar with him....http://yellowrosepeacebus.blogspot.com/2007/03/texas-srate-representative-lon-burnam.html

[dysfunctional press]

10. ivaw?

:shrug:

[annabanana]

15. Iraq Veterans Against the War. . . . n/t

[judaspriestess]

11. this will only make him come back and fight harder

glad to hear he is OK.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Yes Jim won't give up because of this

and it will just energize more people to speak out. The war mongers don't think about how their actions just inspire those of us against the war.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. Is There Any Reason At This Time To Believe It Was Anything Else Other Than, Say, A Bus Fire?

I mean, before this spreads like wildfire across the nets and everyone starts crying out all these melodramatic things; was there actually any indication from law enforcement or otherwise, that the fire was in fact suspicious? Or is that part just totally made up.

[ProudDad]

23. Always ready to defend the pigs, eh?

On Edit: When's the last time you've heard of a fucking Diesel bus "catching fire"??? Get fucking real!!!

The odds are 100 to 1 that some fucked up, right-wing yahoo or yahoos torched this bus...

It's an old USAmerikan custom and tradition to do such things.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

27. Defend Who? There's No Defense Of Anybody. So Sorry That A Question Seeking Facts Hurts Your Head

so much.

I'd say it's a pretty fair question to ask, if there was any actual indication of foul play or if this as it stands at this time is nothing more than wild speculation, intended to drive people into a frenzy while there's a complete absence of fact.

Maybe they did torch the bus. That's a possibility. But I would think there would already be an indication from the police at the scene that there was suspicion of possible foul play. So tell me, did they think so?

Asking such a question is not defending anybody, since there's no anybody even involved yet. So check yourself pal.

[ProudDad]

28. When have the fucking pigs in this country

EVER seriously investigated this type of crime?

Shit, check yourself, pal, and the fucked up fascist Empire you're living in...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. Oh How I Missed This Sort Of Melodramatic Empty Response!

fascist empire blah blah blah :rofl:

Oh some things haven't changed a bit!

So police don't investigate fires anymore? Oh, wait, let me guess: You want the attorney general to take it up and congress to start hearings on it, lest they all be complicit? :rofl:

This was a vehicle fire on a highway. Cops must've been at the scene. If there was any indication of foul play, they would note it. That's just simple fact. Your complete avoidance of the issue would lead me to believe that you aren't interested in facts whatsoever, and have no critical thinking skills. I found your response to be all sorts of silly. Yeah, police never investigate fires. You're too much! :hi:

[ProudDad]

34. ...

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Society/freedom_rides/Freedom_Ride_DBF.htm

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

38. Oh My What An Act Of Desperation That Was.

Holy cow, to think you actually believe that supports your empty position somehow.

You're really not doing anything to help this thread ya know. Proud has done a far better job by at least being willing to find out more details, and provide them.

I think it's important to know whether or not there was foul play involved prior to jumping to foolish conclusions. If there was, then there should be all sorts of an outcry from all of us, since such an act would be reprehensible. But let's not put the cart in front of the horse and just leap to such conclusion, while there's still no indication that's what occurred.

And what was your post supposed to prove anyway? What, am I now supposed to post a million and one pictures of vehicles on fire, that started just on their own merits? Yeah, that would be productive.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

40. So That Means That This Fire Was Sabotage, And That Law Enforcement Would Look The Other Way?

Oh god you all sorts of crack me up!

Talk about reaching!

And try to keep your emotions in check pal. No reason for ya to get all uppity and stuff.

[ProudDad]

45. Ah

"uppity niggers" of any color not allowed, eh?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

46. Yes. You Saw Right Through Me Watson. That's Exactly What I Meant.

:eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. OMC, we call the cops when we are assaulted by these morans

Off the top of my head, I can think of 5 incidents in the last couple years here in my city. Yes, we call the cops. NO THEY HAVE NEVER COME.

Granted, we aren't reporting a fire. But I can report a cop driving by us and yelling "FUCK OFF" from his patrol car. I can also report another cop flipping us off as he drove by with his lights and siren on. He took his hands off the wheel to put BOTH middle fingers up in our direction.

I can also report that the cops DO COME when someone else calls and turns US in. For blocking traffic (we never do). For threatening people who drive by (we never do that either).

My son was pulled over while driving my car and the cop just wanted to hassle him about my bumper stickers. Claimed he had just gotten home from Iraq and seeing "ANOTHER AMERICAN FOR PEACE", "PEACE ON EARTH" AND "WAR IS NOT PRO-LIFE" on my bumper was grounds for pulling my car over. Yes, we filed a complaint. No, we never heard anymore about it.

So no, most of us protesting against this war don't trust the cops to protect us. Ironically, in all the places in the US where I have been to speak out or march against the war, the cops in Crawford, TX seem to be the only ones who are really concerned about protecting us.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

44. Proud, I Completely Understand What You're Saying, And I Know It's True.

But I'm just asking specifically towards this case. If there was a car fire on the highway, the cops would be there. They would absolutely do an investigation and determine if there was any indication of foul play. There's really no doubt in my mind to that. Believe me, if this was sabotage or worse, I most certainly want to know about it. I just can't simply reach that conclusion based on the fact there was a fire, and the driver was strongly anti-war.

[ProudDad]

47. What makes you think that this is true???

"They would absolutely do an investigation and determine if there was any indication of foul play."

You accuse me of ignoring the facts when you ignore the fact that dissenters in USAmerika have continuously, consistently and systematically been torched, murdered, framed and harassed by the pigs forever.

To oppress dissent and lock up dissenters is one of the most important parts of their job.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

48. ...

:boring:

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. He's right, OMC

Really.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

52. With All Due Respect, He Isn't.

I'm more than familiar with the cops here. If there was any indication that there was foul play involved, they absolutely would investigate. Saying anything otherwise is sheer ignorance. Sorry.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. Well I can't speak about the cops there

But as I said earlier, we haven't felt very protected by law enforcement in many other communities. I have reason to believe that cops in Jersey are no different from their right wing counterparts in many other place in the US.

[INDIA]

30. um...100 to 1 odds mean it's UNLIKELY the bus was torched on purpose.

Making it a 1% chance your theory is correct. But I'm sure you knew that Proud Dad.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. Sounds About Right. n/t

[ProudDad]

37. Fine, I got it backwards

I actually think the odds are hugely in favor of the proposition that some right-wing fucks torched the bus.

It's so depressing seeing right-wing shits defending the pigs here at DU...

This board used to be slightly progressive...

Alas...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

43. Is That A Habit?

[INDIA]

51. Well actually, if you want my opinion...

When it comes to incidents like this (Randi Rhodes assault, IVAW bus) there definitely is a heightened chance that the incident was politically motivated because the politics of the organization/person at issue tend to breed more contempt from the Right Wing fringe than the average person/bus. HOWEVER, just because the chances are slightly higher doesn't automatically make it a politically motivated crime without further evidence. Regardless of politics, normal people are assaulted, normal buses catch on fire.

The responsible, intelligent, thinking person would be wise to go ahead and wait for more information to come out before making such strong assumptions. Otherwise you'll end up looking like a moron, like that AAR personality who made a fool out of himself by blaming the other side for Randi's errr..."slip and fall."

I also found your other post interesting, Proud Dad, in which you complained to the Police about the bikers at your peace rally being too loud. Wasn't it you who has said "fuck the police" on many occasions? Didn't you say that you were so self sufficient and tough that you would never need the help of the police in another thread a couple months ago? You are an interesting poster indeed...

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Well since I have actually been WITH Jim on this bus

and in DC with others marching and lobbying against the occupation of Iraq, and I have actually seen how hateful the war mongers can be, I can't help but suspect it was arson. Jim took good care of this bus. It has been his home for 3 or 4 years now. It was his baby. So until it can be proven otherwise, I will believe it was arson.

OMC, it is hard to even describe how hateful these war mongers are. They drive by Camp Casey in the middle of the night and stop in the middle of the road (it's a state highway, BTW) and lean on their horns until the cops come and send them away or arrest them. They try to come onto the property pointing guns at us. They ride horses onto the property and try to intimidate us. Motorcycles too. The police come and arrest them and they come back after they bail out. One guy even said he was there to kill us. Yes, he told the cops he wanted to kill all of us. And I just happened to overhear that guy but I am told there are many more of him who have made the same threat.

They beat the shit out of a dad in DC whose son had died in Iraq. His crime? Marching against the war with a picture of his son.

Here in my city, where we vigil against the war twice a week, they throw beers at us and drive up in the sidewalk trying to run us over.

I could write a book detailing the hate mail, crank phone calls and emails we get from these people. Death threats are a way of life to them.

So yes, I believe they burned this bus.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

26. I Don't Argue That They Can Be That Vicious.

But before this story gets out of hand, I think it's a responsible question to ask as to whether or not there was any INDICATION of foul play from the perspective of law enforcement, since an assessment like that is pretty quickly given.

So is there any indication of foul play whatsoever or any legitimate reason to believe there was any, or are we just speculating based solely on the fact that there was a fire, and he's adamantly against the war...

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Well let's just say an accidental fire seems highly unlikely to me.

I will post more info as it comes in. My email box is flooded. If I get any more details, I will post and PM you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

35. Ok. Thanks.

Personally, I would think an accidental fire would seem far more likely, since 99.9% of the time that's how vehicle fires start, but I understand why you could think otherwise. If there was in fact foul play involved then I'd certainly hope whoever did such disgusting thing is caught and locked up. Either way, I'm still glad he's ok. Things definitely could've turned out differently. In the end of it all, that's all that really matters.

[ProudDad]

41. "from the perspective of law enforcement"

Right...

Let's ask the wolf guarding the hen-house, "What happened to the hens?" :sarcasm:

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. OMC, here is some more info

More pictures plus a video of the fire on this website:

http://www.yellowrosepeacebus.blogspot.com/


And a video showing McCain's bus cutting off the Yellow Rose on a highway earlier this week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP_m4XShjNI&eurl=http://www.yellowrosepeacebus.blogspot.com/

[OzarkDem]

13. There must be some security cameras there

that caught video of the culprits. One would assume a truck stop would have a lot of security cameras around.

[mcscajun]

55. Not likely in this case. It wasn't so much a "truck stop" as a highway "rest stop"

From the looks of the photos, it seems the latter. Some of them here in NJ don't have much more than a toilet and a couple of benches. If there are cameras around, I've never noticed them.

I never stop at them at night, either, but then I'm not a long-haul driver.

[annabanana]

14. If this was arson.... It was a terrorist attack. . . . Against our troops!

If they catch the goons that did it.. the full weight of the erstwhile Patriot Act should land on their heads...

[ProudDad]

22. My take on this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3137493&mesg_id=3137598

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. If you are interested in helping Jim:

Checks can be made out to:

Veterans For Peace, Chapter 106 (please spell this out) Put in memo line: BUS FUND
Mail to:
Bernie Jezercak
1804 Tree LIne Drive
Carrollton, TX 75007

http://ntimc.org/index.php