Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Jury Sends out Two Notes in Libby Trial

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:00 PM
Original message
Jury Sends out Two Notes in Libby Trial
Jury Sends out Two Notes in Libby Trial
By Jeralyn, Section Lewis Libby Trial Coverage
Posted on Thu Feb 22, 2007 at 02:28:49 PM EST
Tags: Libby Trial (all tags)


Here are the first two notes sent by the jury in the Scooter Libby trial:

Note 1 http://www.talkleft.com/LibbyTrial/221jurynote.pdf
Note 2 http://www.talkleft.com/LibbyTrial/222jurynote.pdf

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/2/22/152849/544

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. hoo boy. They're gonna be a while...
judging by the notes, it looks as though they're going to build some sort of flow chart.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. Yup... this is probably gonna go into next week...
patience, I guess...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. CAN YOU SPELL OUT WHAT THE QUESTIONS WERE .I CAN'T GET IT
TO COME UP...THANKS!!

FLY
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The first was a request for a flipchart and markers
the second for pictures of witnesses. Not much there really.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. they want a large flip chart
post it notes and duct tape.

They also want pics of witnesses if there are any.

It seems they want to break down testimony regarding the different charges levelled against Scooter Pie.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Asking for office supplies
sketch pads, post it notes, easel, that kind of stuff.

Second one is asking for testimony documents tha contain pictures of the witnesses.

Looks like they're trying to get organized and follow a process.


Good for them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well those show... absolutely nothing useful.
At least they are deliberating.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
28. Shows they are organized analytical and not acting on "emotion"
Sounds like they are making flowcharts and timelines.

Sounds like they are not shedding tears along with Wells, Libby's weeping defense attorney
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. Pictures of the Witnesses?
???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I would assume Russert, Fleicher, Miller et. al. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Very likely they
are also looking for the administration and CIA folks, as well. In a case with as much detail as this one, it is a good idea to have the photos to help folks remember each witness as a distinct individual. The visual images stimulate memory.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I think you're right, along with the flip chart, visual aids
Edited on Thu Feb-22-07 04:20 PM by myrna minx
of the numerous witnesses would be very helpful. I'm impressed. They are taking their charge very seriously.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I believe you are absolutely correct.
I've never heard of such a request in a jury trial. Seeing the photos of the witnesses will not only help them remember the testimony, it will help them to remember their visceral reactions to those witnesses. In a jury case, impressions do matter.

Very interesting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. agree... probably need the pics to keep everyone on track
with who is who...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. Making timelines and flowcharts. Analytical, rather than emotionally crying with Weepy Wells. EOM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. So they can throw darts?
Just kidding....just sounded like an odd request.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PhilipShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I'm sure if they were allowed darts...
in the jury room -- some jurors would be using them. I'm starting to think of Jack Klugman in the 12 Angry Men movie.

12 Angry Men (1957)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050083/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. probably
to graphically display testimony under a picture of each witness, perhaps in a timeline.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Geoff R. Casavant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I expect some jurors don't remember the names
but do remember the faces, so the pictures will help in whatever chart they are assembling.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Just trying to put the testimony with the faces perhaps.
Credibility is significant, and sometimes tone of voice and facial expressions and body language can make a difference.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
12. Fitzgerald gave a brilliant prosecution case, based on evidence and hard fact.
Libby's defense blew smoke. They really blew the case (--partly because they didn't have much of a defense, and partly because...I don't know why. They insulted the jurors, raised red herrings, kept referring to Valerie Plame as "the wife," and attorney Wells wept, in his close--he shed tears (!) crying "Give this man back to me!" Fitzgerald just took him to pieces.)

So, if the jurors are looking carefully at the evidence, chances are they will convict.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. i think the jury want to make something like this---
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I think you've got it exactly. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Gee, if we could only smuggle that in!
kidding, just kidding...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. That's my guess as well....
The requests certainly lead me to think they are constructing a flowchart containing both timelines and witness testimony using photos to clarify what said what when. Very interesting for sure. This jury seems to be taking their responsibility very seriously and that, regardless of the eventual verdict, is good news, imo.

Pure speculation on my part but I think this would concern the defense much more than the prosecution.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Yes I think you are on to something. . .EOM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. Markers? Flip Charts? Picture?...
They're obviously making caricatures!



Lovingly ripped off from http://www.magixl.com

Sid
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
25. On Jury Deliberations:
Edited on Thu Feb-22-07 05:05 PM by utopiansecretagent
In case anyone is curious about what the jury is up to right now, I found an interesting article about jury deliberations that I wanted to share.

Apparently, there is an organization known as the Jury Research Institute, which, among other things, convenes mock trials for juries and then monitors their deliberations afterward. Fascinating stuff. Here’s a bit from the article:

“In looking at the panel as a whole, the relative participation of each group member will fall into three broad categories. Generally, on any panel of 12 individuals, social science research has revealed that there tends to be three or four “persuaders” in the group. These individuals make over 50% of the affirmative statements during the deliberations. They tend to be the ones who build coalitions and are responsible for most of the introduction of new issues for the jury’s consideration. Thus, although there might be “one foreperson” the focal discussions are really devided amongst the three or four persuaders. In fact, when a foreperson is ineffective in handling the organization of the deliberations, a secondary foreperson tends to emerge informally and take on the role of the foreperson, without ever actually being identified as such. The next group of individuals in the jury deliberation room are the “participants.” These six to eight individuals tend to be active and participate in the discussions, but they usually have opinions in reaction to statements made by the leaders. They tend to be the joiners, and will follow and support other members, but generally don’t tend to build coalitions themselves. Finally, there is a group of three or four individuals known as the “non-participants.” These individuals are uninterested in being on the jury, and/or are uncomfortable speaking up. Their primary concerns are, “How long is this going to take?,” and “If you need another vote to get a majority, you can count me in.” Thus, an awareness of the relative role of each juror may be helpful for counsel in tailoring closings and narrowing the size of the target audience that must be deeply engaged in counsel’s argument.

-snip-

urors…often will start with a complete review of the verdict form, although jurors won’t necessarily start with question number one. Rarely are words like “preponderance of the evidence,” or “guilty beyond a reasonable doubt” uttered during jury deliberations. Instead we hear phrases like, “Well, do you think the plaintiff is entitled to anything?,” “Well, does it seem like this is a bad product?” “Well, what’s your inclination? Are we going with the plaintiff or the defendant?” Observers rarely hear a juror say, “Do you feel the evidence presented establishes the liability of the defendant by a preponderance of the evidence?” Attorneys often speak to one another with references to the burden of proof, and whether there is sufficient evidence to “prove up a point.” In particular, when there are different standards of proof required (e.g., clear and convincing evidence), attorneys feel more anxious over whether they will reach this “threshold” with jurors. As a matter of course, jurors rarely make distinctions along these lines. Their evaluations are from a perspective of what is “fair” and what is “right,” or how the case “ought to come out.” They do not weigh evidence against some legalistic scale of “clear and convincing evidence” versus “preponderance of the evidence.”

-snip-

It is interesting to note that jurors are very willing to interpret the evidence. Rather than accepting the conclusions presented by witnesses, jurors generally feel they have sufficient expertise to be able to judge the issues themselves. This is especially true when “experts” emerge on the jury panel. These tend to be individuals who have some experience, however remote, with the issues at hand, and therefore assert some unusual authority in the jury deliberation. For example, on many breach of contract cases we have seen jurors with experience signing a sales contract to purchase their home use this as the basis for their “expertise” on commercial construction contracts. Attorneys need to be on the lookout during jury selection for background experiences among jurors that may remotely touch upon the issues in the case. If it is a product defect case, it is important to find out if jurors have ever asserted any complaints to a manufacturer, whether they have ever returned a product to a store for a refund, and certainly whether they have ever been exposed to any type of dangerous situation they thought could have been the fault of a product. Counsel needs to know who the potential “experts” in the deliberation room might be. Over and over, we see jurors discount the conclusions of the experts by saying that each side hired their own gun. They do, however, take into account what the experts say. Therefore, whether your expert has better credentials than an opposing expert may not be as important as the expert’s ability to communicate effectively. The expert who can actually teach the jurors the issues and make a technical case understandable to lay individuals, will be the one most mimicked in the jury deliberation room. In fact, if an expert can use analogies that fit with jurors’ everyday experiences to explain theories of liability, he or she is likely to be quoted often in the jury deliberation room. Unfortunately, it is not necessarily the most knowledgeable expert who is the most persuasive. Rather, it is the expert who can create the most comprehensible sound bites for the jury to embrace.”

Here’s a link to the full article:

http://www.jri-inc.com/article3.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Interesting article!
K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. Usually there is initial polling isn't there?
Among the jurors...first go-around? Doesn't appear it was slam-dunk unanimous. :shrug: Yeah, the suspense is killing me too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Done Donating Member (680 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
26. Somebody is cheating! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
antiimperialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. I don't trust the Washington Post reporter jury member
For some reason when i read about the jury backgrounds, i don't worry about the art curator, MIT professor and others. It is when I read about the Washington Post reporter that all the memories of th MSM backstabbing this country on the back come back to me.
And I heard this guy is Bob Woodard's friend.

We'll see.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
27. Longer they're out, better chance for conviction. Libby's defense was
mostly that he "misrecollected." If you believe this might be the case, then there's not much need to thoroughly go over the evidence. "Hey, he was a busy guy, and everybody forgets and confuses things sometimes, right?"

Seems like the jury is recreating and clarifying Fitz's arguments (perhaps to convince some jury members?).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trashcanistanista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. I think that too
There may be one or two that need convincing, thus necessitating a complete review of the case.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
33. They're asking for MASKING tape? Are they expecting a terra attack?
....cause it will keep you safe, you konw.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
woodsprite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-22-07 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. You only have to worry about that if they start asking for cans of tuna
Seriously though, is there a timelimit on deliberation or can they take as long as they want as long as they're making progress?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 05:50 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC