A native man asks Democrats

[Iktomiwicasa]

I originally posted this here in the fall of 2005, and I feel it is time to let it be seen once again. Recently, I was accused of being some "freeper" or otherwise a republican in disguise due to my skepticism that any politician, democrat or republican, actually gives a rip about any legitimate native issue. Nothing could be further from the truth. The fact is, we have been lied to over and over, and fed empty promises by both parties, without exception. You want me to vote democrat? Then convince me that any one of the current crop will actually have the honor and the courage to stand up and treat us in an honorable way. Forgive me if I say that I can't hold much hope that any of them actually will do that. Liars and snakes, all of them. That is why I do not consider myself "American" in the sense that most of you do. I have a nation already, that was here long before there was ever a thought of a thing called "America". I know who MY leaders, my traditional chiefs, are, and they damn sure aren't a the pack of thieves that inhabit Washington. So, convince me, if you can....

Here is my original post from Sept 2005

"I'm opposed to the Bush administration, I do not like what they are doing in the world and to other people of color.

I am Oglala Lakota, and I'm from the Pine Ridge reservation in S. Dakota. What I want to ask you democrat people is why you have not put restoration of our treaty rights, our land claims, and freedom of our political prisoners at the very top of your agendas. Your track record in these areas is no better than the republicans. We do not want your government programs, your handouts, your funding. We do not want a "seat at your table" We have our own table...time long past for you to give it back. Your party is more than willing to be an advocate to the Palestinians, to black people, and to most any other oppressed people in the world, but you run from us. Why?

I will tell you why. It is because it is easier and more comfortable to ask someone else to give something up than it is to give it up yourselves. Restoring land claims would mean plenty of democratic voters might lose land, homes, businesses. This must not be acceptable to you, yet you have no problem asking the Israelis to do the same thing.

We as native people are the legitimate keepers of this land, not the US government and your people as a nation will NEVER have national honor regardless of who you elect and how you change the current foreign policy. You cannot have honor unless and untill you deal with us, and live up to the obligations that you have agreed to long ago.

I say this not to make enemies, not to anger or alienate, but to send a voice so YOU can force your politicians to make this a front and center issue, so you will know the right thing to do. Your nation is doomed unless you listen to us."

[acmavm]

1. What are we supposed to say? I agree that there is no moral reason to

justify the way the American Indians were/are treated. They're still getting the short end of everything. The government broke every treaty, they killed innocents exactly like they are doing to the Iraqi people, they had no respect whatsoever for the beliefs and traditions of the Indians and they tried to force our/their beliefs down their throats. The Indians respected the land and the life that lived on it. The whites from all over the globe have done their very best to destroy this planet.

What do you want me to say?

[Iktomiwicasa]

6. Well

I hear alot of screechin' around here about how you all are going to "take back this country" from the Republicans. Well and good....but you *might* tell your politicians that you expect them to stand up and ally with indian people who are trying to take back a little of their own. Seems fair, right?

[acmavm]

12. Fair? Do you really feel it will ever be fair? My ex was a musician and one

New Year's Day we were coming back down from Sioux Falls, SD after a gig. We took the long way (I have no idea why) and came through Macy. It was the damn coldest of the year and there were guys lying in a snowdrift by the side of the road. I couldn't believe it. And why? Indians didn't drink before we exposed them to it. And we fight to be able to sell liquor near reservations even though tribal leaders don't want it there. We know that it tears their families apart. But free enterprise and all that shit.

We exposed the native peoples here and in Alaska to small pox and tuberculosis and a miriad of other diseases that swept through their families, their communities and decimated their populations.

We took the Badlands of South Dakota and the mountainous area of Utah from them. That was to the native American's what Jerulsalem or Mecca is to Christians or Muslims.

We celebrate the great American heros like Kit Carson and George Armstrong Custer. They killed defenseless women and children like swatting flies.

We took their buffalo and almost drove it into extinction.

Hell, we might have even taught the native Americans to confiscate the scalp of their enemies to show how many were killed.

And to date what have we given them back? Damned little as far as I can tell. The Republican party is still fleecing your people. I don't know what the answer is. But yes, I agree. We do need to partner up. But as true allies, not just the same old same old that's been going on for over 200 years. What I can't understand is why you would trust us.

[Iktomiwicasa]

13. What I can't understand is why you would trust us.

I don't.

[acmavm]

16. Well then. Like I asked in the first place. What do you want me to say?

[Iktomiwicasa]

14. "The Republican party is still fleecing your people."

The democrat record is just as bad.

[acmavm]

15. Yeah but Jack Abramhoff and Ralph Reed are 21st century evils that

took how many native American tribes for how many millions?

[BeHereNow]

24. Thank you...

My point exactly.
BHN

[juno jones]

2. I've been hearing about the Lakota lately

I think their cause has more truth and merit than the US government's has.

[Dhalgren]

3. As far as Native Peoples are concerned, there is no difference between

the Democrats and Republicans. The Democrats will try and tell you that Democrats are better because of this or that, but it will be lies. Bill Clinton wouldn't free Peltier in 2000 when there was no reason not to, but he did pardon a Republican/Democrat money man, because...well, you know why. To both "major" political parties in this country the Native Peoples are dead, an interesting and sad part of the past and nothing more. Oh, your ancestors are Lakota? My neighbor's are Dutch, what do you know? Anyone looking for honor and justice and human rights in this country are on their own - neither political party gives a good damn...

[Iktomiwicasa]

7. Which was my entire point to the person who called me a "freeper"

So what I'm curious about is why folks insist I should support the democratic party :shrug:

[uppityperson]

10. They are less harmful than not. Supreme Court judges?

Different people define "support the democratic party" differently. You can chose how you will or won't.

[Iktomiwicasa]

11. Harmful to who?

Both major parties have been an equal disaster with regards to my people. That is my first concern, my nation.

[uppityperson]

17. Appointing Supreme Court Justices.

Whoever gets elected, or rather inaugurated, will probably get to chose some Supreme Court Justices. What with sovereign nation status and all, I don't know how much it would impact reservations, but looking at things like Roe v Wade, could have a big difference. Then there is who runs up a bigger national debt, which our children will have to suffer for. My hope is that someday I get to vote for someone, rather than for the lesser of 2 evils.

[Iktomiwicasa]

18. I think you are completely missing my point

Because I am asking this from a native perspective. I could really give a shit what the government does for the white folks, my people are first in my life. I would like to see a government who takes my people seriously, who is willing to make the difficult decisions to FINALLY honor the treaties your people made with mine. As I am saying for about the third time in this thread, Democrats are no better than Republicans in that regard. They ALL lie a steal.

You see, I feel the rank and file American is afraid to honestly look at these issues simply because it is the largest, greasiest stain on their national honor. All the bad things that are happening to the U.S.? It is merely the chickens coming home to roost. Karma. Spiritual consequences, whatever you like to call it. Repair your national honor or you will cease to exist as a nation. Don't believe me? Ask Hillary or Barack or John E. if the are willing to restore the governments treaty obligations (which by the way, are the "Supreme Law of the Land") and see what sort of response you get.

[uppityperson]

19. No, you are missing mine. We are related, interrelated.

I had 2 friends in high school who got pregnant. 1 wasicu from a city had money and went to NY for a legal abortion. The other, indian, was from Standing Rock in ND, poor, ended up in an unwed mothers home to give birth, give up baby, return to reservation. Supreme Court Justices affect us all.

I would like to see a gvt who takes all people seriously, who yes honors treaties made with others. By the way, "My" people didn't make treaties with "your" people, since "my" people were still in the old world when they were made and this gvt, most of the time the usa gvt, is not "my people". "My" people are immigrants in the last century, and yes, I have considered joining them in migrating on, but am too stubborn as yet.

Yes, dems and repubs both lie and steal and cheat and are power hungry, money hungry people. I don't see what is happening as Karma/etc terms, but as a continuation of what has happened for eons. Those in power want more.

What would you suggest for restoring treaty obligations? Serious question. How, what, etc? Do you want total sovereignty back? Serious question.

Edited to add, I have asked more questions below, post #9. Do you want to discuss, or just to say "omg why don't you do this?" If to discuss, I would like to hear what you say.

[Iktomiwicasa]

20. Immediate and complete

return of the Black Hills. They legally belong to us. The Supreme Court even agrees. Beyond that,within a couple of generations a complete return of the unceded lands of Montana and Wyoming, which, BTW, also legally belong to us. We would like the U.S. Government to stop interfereing in our tribal politics, and let us choose our own form of traditional government, instead of the mandated tribal council/puppet government that we are now stuck with.

I don't want to make this a debate about abortion, but FWIIW, you might consider how traditional natives feel about that issue before you try to use the threat of Roe v. Wade abolishment as a boogy man :). You guys want abortions, have at it. We are generally opposed to it. Our children are our future, and are precious to us. We had enough of our children killed as it is, we don't want to start killing them ourselves. Do some research on the subject. You might be surprised.

[uppityperson]

21. Black Hills, way. Return them now, I agree.

Those are good things to want and I agree with them and you.

Regarding abortion. Why did my friend give her baby up for adoption to a white family? This child is not your future, though by now may have come back, or not. In my recent adult life, not 30+ yrs ago like what I wrote about before, I know native american/indian women who have gotten abortions. I will not name names, as that is totally against confidentiality, but having run a family planning clinic in WA, out here I know them.

[uppityperson]

28. As a child, I visited relatives in eastern Montana.

We used to go on picnics at Medicine Rocks, climbing on the sandstones. As an adult, I came to a sudden stop one day when I thought of those times, thinking what the hell? "Medicine Rocks?!?!?" My apologies. Return the Black Hills.

[canadianbeaver]

4. Good ole Nation building eh!!

I am sorry...and I know those words have no meaning anymore.

It is too much for almost all to handle....can't give up something to help out another (for the most part)...look whats happening with the planet....people who really do care are ridiculed/made to feel they are insane and alone...
It's the average human psyche..too afraid to make the important stand....too afraid of what it would mean...TOO AFRAID....and until you are infringing upon their materialistic lives..they couldn't give a hoot really. Pretty sad to say the least.

Fat and lazy for far too long....This I feel is a western thing.....

Those who really want to make a change are gathered up and put away- think Burma for one...this is really too much for the average Joe to handle let alone think about...its easier that way...go back to watching American Idol and drinkin that beer...now that they can handle...

For me...I sit every day..wondering if this will be the day I stand up....and say NO...This can't go on...Will someone join me...will I be alone..? And I am ashamed to say..I still sit waiting...too afraid to make the leap of faith needed to start down that path...but wanting to within my heart..will the day come when my heart takes the stage and leads me where I know I will make a difference...where I know..in the end..I did what I could for you and me?

Deep thoughts.....too deep for some...to deep for even me.

[Mythsaje]

5. I stand behind the Lakota now more than ever.

And I agree that few candidates are speaking to Native issues. The fact that you have valid concerns and points to make shouldn't be ignored, but I can't tell you what, if anything, any of the candidates would do to address these concerns.

I know John Edwards opposes storing nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain, which does have something to do with Native issues, but not the Lakota.

Is there any consensus among the tribes as to what might be unifying concerns? I'm genuinely curious. If so, it might be more than worthwhile to discuss them here. I suspect that representives of all the campaigns read DU at least occasionally.

[babsbunny]

8. Amen! Have you seen the movie Skins? Please watch!

We are still working to keep them displaced!

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/2006/11/06/dog-slaughter.html?ref=rss

[uppityperson]

9. Hello Spider man, a question for you.

What do you think of what Russell Means and his group is doing regarding lands? I agree, Native rights in the USA are pretty poor and not thought of much. I think you have neither power nor oil to make yourself heard.

Another question, do you think Israelis should give the lands back to the Palestinians? Is there a difference between USA native land grab and what happened/is going on in Israel?

I do not like what the US gvt is doing to its people, or the world, and have difficulty sometimes not despairing.

[Iktomiwicasa]

39. As far as..

...the Palestinian/Israel disputes, I am all in favor of the Palestinian folks having a viable and safe sovereign land of their own. But to get into that discussion is food for another thread entirely. I still would like to see if someone here can show a democrat politician who will be good for indian people, and not just give empty promises like all the rest.

[uppityperson]

40. I've been thinking about you today.

"I could really give a shit what the government does for the white folks, my people are first in my life. "

My first focus is taking care of myself, my family, my community, my town, my state, etc., humanity, the Earth. You say you don't care what the gvt does for the white people, just about your people. This has been on my thoughts today. I care about what happens to all people.

As far as I/P issues, me too. As far as wishing for a democratic politician who would be good for non-rich, non-powerful people, me too.

[Iktomiwicasa]

41. This thread isn't about I/P issues or abortion.

But I can understand your discomfort in having to look at the fact that WRT native issues, democrat politicians are nothing but a bunch of skunks.

[uppityperson]

42. I know. I am agreeing with you on that.

And no, not uncomfortable saying dem politicians are skunks. I am agreeing there also. I am just saying I was thinking today about "my people", and realizing that my "my people" are a different group (which includes) your "my people".

Someday I wish I could have a representative do good things, represent me and humanity and the earth, not be a politician having to, or desiring to, play politics, making the rich richer, the poor poorer, and not able to or caring to risk making things better. No, no problem looking at or saying they are skunks.

[BeHereNow]

22. Missed seeing you around...How you been?

Funny to see you repost this now-
I was just reading it in my book marks the other day.
Made any good dog soup lately?

BHN

[BeHereNow]

23. K&R and a link to my last rant on the charade, just for you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2636329

:hug: from BHN

[Iktomiwicasa]

25. Hey there...

BHN :hi: . Yeah, I haven't DUed much in the last year and a half or so. Been busy with real life. Yakking on the internet is generally a waste of time, so many more important things to do...

[BeHereNow]

27. You're far saner than I.

I took a desert trip a week ago-
No phones, no nothin'.
Did my heart and soul good to unplug
from all of it and connect with some
rocks...:P
And no, they weren't the ones rattling
around in my head- that only happens when
I'm on DU.:evilgrin:

Heh-
BHN

[uppityperson]

26. k&r with agreement.

Someday I wish to be able to vote FOR someone, not AGAINST the worst choice. Peace and onward.

[BeHereNow]

29. Kicking with link to original post and replies...Sept/2005

This is a great thread, I think it deserves a replay
on this one.
BHN

[scarletwoman]

30. Hey, Spider Man. What politician actually gives a rip for ANY people?

They are all about maintaining the power structure, and their place within it.

"The Earth is gonna roll and shake. She's gonna throw off the wasicu like a dog shaking off fleas." This is the only resolution that I know of. Heard it from a Wicasa Wakan from Rosebud, some years back.

I don't know what else to say. I can say that I understand. I can say that I unequivocally support the Lakota's right to the Black Hills. But I have no power to make it happen.

I live in Anishanaabe Ani, far east of you. They are welcome to hunt deer and gather medicines on this small piece of land where I live, they are friends of mine. They have graciously invited me to their dances and feasts.

I know nothing except to do my best to honor the earth, to do my best to live as a true human being, and to do my best to teach others. I know it is not enough, but I am getting old, and I don't know what else to do.

sw

[BeHereNow]

32. You might want to be careful mentioning dogs around Iktomiwicasa...

:rofl:

When I told him about my Jindo, he told me he had
a good recipe for dog soup.

On a serious note-
If you have any friends who have trouble getting any
herbs or roots, let me know and I'll ship them to you.
I've got a friend in Alberta I send things to, blackroot, California sage (he LOVES that
and I can pick it where I live!) and
various other hard-to-get-in-Canada herbs.
Some of my dearest and oldest friends here in Looney land (LA)
are among the top herbalists in the country.
They can get ANYTHING, but will only buy/sell
according to correct season for purity reasons.

Love to you SW.

BHN

[scarletwoman]

33. Well, I won't mention the role of puppies in traditional Midewiwin.

On the other hand, the 'Shinobs like to joke about the Bwaan as "dog-eaters".

But one might say, I've got no dog in this fight. :D

Regarding medicine plants, there's pretty much everything around here that one would want or need. I live in a truly bountiful, beautiful place on the earth.

:loveya:
sw

[uppityperson]

34. I was given a puppy once by a Lakota

name of puppy translated into "mangy soup".

[scarletwoman]

35. LOL! Too stringy for eating, eh?

:rofl:

[Iktomiwicasa]

44. "Hey Chief...

...what's yer dog's name?"


"Soup"

[scarletwoman]

31. kick... (nt)

[NuttyFluffers]

36. right now democrats are having trouble making their politicians honor THEIR contract to them

the constitution has all but been cut up into little squares and wiped the ass of our DC politicians. and painfully, especially evidence from 2004 and 2006 onward, not even all the lip service from the democratic party will honor the demands for checks and balances and rule of law mandated by the 'treaty' between the 'governed' and the 'executors of government'. the problems are so big that the very people supposed to hold this charade up are abandoning the pretense and selling out their constituents -- or at least enough are that the USA citizens are finding they have no voice.

2 million or so people who live in the worst standards of living and have the least economic clout, Native American, have zero importance to these power plays. well, maybe some marginal face time as a symbol to assuage guilt to some people. otherwise they have no power or importance. simple. painful. fact.

so, no, i'm not going to persuade you to vote democratic or republican or whatever. Native Americans got, and are continuing to get, the rawest deal in america, and voting any one of the major parties is not going to change that trend. you're free to vote your conscience, just like everyone is, but with zero pretense of 'owed fealty' that's being shoved down people's throats all over the party machinery. enjoy, you see america for the hypocritical lie that it is. may that truth keep you in good stead.

[Iktomiwicasa]

37. bump

nt

[mistertrickster]

38. Politicians only change to the extent they are forced to change.

Iktomi writes, "The fact is, we have been lied to over and over, and fed empty promises by both parties, without exception."

Join the club, my friend. What do you think happened to us when our candidate won the election and lost the White House?

White, black, red, yellow, brown . . . we're all darkies now.

[CitizenLeft]

43. every time I hear the litany of "people"...

...it usually doesn't include Native Americans, and it pisses me off. Paraphrasing almost all politicians, "I believe in equality for every man and woman, white or black, Asian or Latino, all across this land." When I hear that, I think... okay, is "Asian" supposed to include the native peoples? Uh, no. Where are they in this list of people who are "equal?" It's almost like you are invisible. It annoys me no end. Unless one lives in a state where the native population is highly visible, your needs and issues do not cross the average person's consciousness.

For what it's worth, though there's little I can do personally, I support you completely.

Just as a reference point, I am an African-American woman who probably has Chickahominy in my background... somewhere. Can't trace it, will never know.

Also, there's no doubt that I'm probably living on tribal lands here in Ohio. Hell, we all are.

And I haven't forgotten the native people of the Hawaiian islands, either. Though they are a tiny segment of the population, their rights have been trampled on too.

Peace be with you, and I pray that your people get your justifiable grievances honestly addressed by one or more of our candidates. No doubt the nominees will be headed your way in the summer and fall. When they hit your state, GIVE 'EM HELL.

[Iktomiwicasa]

46. bump, nt

[BeHereNow]

45. Link to original thread/ 2005- DU CLassic

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4838363
I posted it up thread, but the link disappeared...
Weird.
BHN