January, 2008

[H2O Man]

I was enjoying the democratic debate last night, including having the opportunity to discuss it with a number of DUers on the "debate threads," when the phone rang. It was one of my siblings, calling to discuss the now daily frustrations associated with a medical crisis with another extended family member. Things are difficult enough without having to deal with the bureaucracy of the hospital and the other associated institutions.

A little more than a week ago, an old friend and neighbor died. He could not afford the high price of oil to heat his home, and had been burning a lot of wood. His nearest son would bring him loads of firewood that were split to a size my friend could easily handle. But his son had an infection, but no insurance, and was doing what poor people do -- going without appropriate medical attention. My friend had a guy bring a truckload of wood, but it wasn't split small enough. My friend split the wood, until his heart stopped. His sone has been calling me a lot in the last week, wondering what went wrong with this country.

My wife just called me from work. She had run an errand at lunch, and went to a store. An elderly woman was in line ahead of her. The woman was buying two cans of soup, but did not have enough money on her. The cashier became impatient, and the woman said she would put the soup back. My wife bought it for her. She said the woman told her she just didn't realize how expensive two cans of soup had become.

There are things going terribly wrong with our country, and while I know the fault is not the exclusive property of the republican party, I believe that the current administration is the most immediate problem our nation faces.

I watched the late night/ early morning replay of the deabate on CNN (had it been republicans, I could have gone to sleep), and while no one candidate is perfect, I am convinced that all three are fully capable of serving as President of the United States in a positive, meaningful manner. I think that it is important that we discuss the strengths and debate the weaknesses of each of the three. But I wish people would take the time to do so in a constructive manner.

[NMDemDist2]

1. I"m gonna K&R this because if the last few weeks are any indication

your good sense remarks will sink like a stone.

:hi:

edit to add, we have a homeless couple here in town (yes just one) and it's in the teens at night. in our small town of 25,000 there are over 30 churches but still this couple is on the street.

we (hubby and I) give them $$ food and sleeping bags when we see them and I was quite concerned since I hadn't seen them for a few days. yesterday I finally saw him, asked if he was sick and yes, he was pretty sick from a cold/flu and I was dismayed to notice what looked like mild frost bite on his face

:cry:

[H2O Man]

4. My wife and daughters

are members of a small church in the nearest hamlet. The congregation there has been busy helping to supply a number of the local food banks. The largest increase in people using the food banks are the "working poor" families. We are in a harsh time in American society, and not because the citizens are cold-hearted.

[Emit]

2. How can anyone not Recommend this?

We do need to debate our choices -- let's do it in a constructive manner, I agree.

[H2O Man]

11. Thank you.

The DU debate threads tend to be of a better quality than some of the petty nonsense I read the following mornings. I'm not sure why that is, but I do know that I think one of the best parts of the debates are the "live" DU threads.

[niyad]

3. k & r

[H2O Man]

18. Thanks n/t

[tekisui]

5. Those stories are found in Anytown, USA.

I am proud of our candidates. Living in a late voting state, I am looking forward to who becomes the nominee.

[H2O Man]

6. Right.

They are found in Everyville. This is what is happening to people who have worked all of their lives, and been invested in this country. They have been betrayed.

[mmonk]

7. Nice post.

My heart is saddened over the loss of your friend though. I'm afraid this country has lost its way and what is important (it's people and community) and things that made it great. I still say Edwards understands. But I don't want to make this a candidate thread.

[H2O Man]

9. My friend's son

said he wants to write a letter to the local newspapers, and say that his father -- a WW2 veteran -- shouldn't have had to worry about if he could stretch his monthly check to be able to afford to heat his home. He said he is too upset to write it now, but would like some help with it soon. I'll help him alright.

Last night, I gave both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama an "A" on their debate presentation. I gave John Edwards an "A+".

[mmonk]

12. It will be an excellent letter I'm sure.

With the two of you on it, I hope it reminds people we need each other and a country and policies that reflects that. I'm glad you gave John an A+. Yes, they all did fine.

[blondie58]

37. Please post it here, H2O Man, I think that we could all use it

I am so sorry about your friend. And God bless your wife for helping that lady buy her soup. I have decided to start looking for good deals and giving some to the Food Bank. Albertsons had a deal where cereal was $1 a box after the coupon. That is too good to pass up and I am going to stretch my dollars and help them out. Peace.

[suffragette]

8. I'm sorry for the loss of your friend

These are the concrete effects of abstract policies on people's lives.

And i agree with you, both about the capability of the candidates and with your wish that we could discuss the general issues and our issues with candidates particulars more constructively.

[H2O Man]

20. Thank you.

Human beings are suffering around the globe because of cruel, greedy, and violent "leaders." We need to change directions .... not in the shallow, glib way that candidates like Mitt talk about change, but in most fundamental ways. I know that none of the top three democrats can accomplish everything necessary, but they can start the process.

[suffragette]

22. We need to change the direction in small and large ways.

Thanks to your wife for buying the soup for the woman. A simple act of kindness sends wonderful ripples.

And we do need fundamental change, started like that ripple, then spreading wide.

And, yes, Mitt would never start that.

Part of it, I think, will be having a strong enough Democratic majority in the House and Senate, to support a Democratic President in change and to lead and push that President if he/she hesitates.

:hug: to you and your wife

[spanone]

10. K&R ....things are terribly wrong in our country

i too will be proud to vote for any nominee that the democratic party puts forward....there is absolutely no choice other than defeating this current ideology of the republicans.

[H2O Man]

23. Yep.

It's important that there is a democratic in the White House, and a larger majority of democrats in congress. The federal courts are at stake.

[Tyler Durden]

13. My daughter and I bring food to a local church and cook for the homeless, Saturday Mornings.

Last time we did it, she said to me that it tears her up wondering what they do for a hot meal the days we aren't there.

THERE IS SOMETHING TERRIBLY, TERRIBLY WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY.

[H2O Man]

24. It's good

that you and your daughter do that. Thank you.

[mzmolly]

14. K and R.

Any of the three candidates that participated in last nights debate would make a good President. Yes, we should discuss the differences between the three, but we should also come to one conclusion in the end. Democrats are a far cry from the alternative.

[H2O Man]

25. Right.

There are plenty of good discussions and debates on DU. But there are some ugly and destructive threads as well, that offer nothing positive.

[Annces]

15. Sorry about your friend n/t

[H2O Man]

27. Thank you. n/t

[mzmolly]

16. I failed to mention that I am sorry about the loss of your friend and neighbor

H20man.

[H2O Man]

28. Thanks.

Our families have been friends for generations. His sons and I are all friends, as well. It's strange to look at a rural neighborhood, and remember it from when I was a little kid, and think of all the people who once lived there. Now I'm one of the old-timers! It happens a lot quicker than one expects.

[OneGrassRoot]

17. It's truly heartbreaking. Thanks for the post. K&R n/t

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

19. I never thought we'd become a nation that throws the old, young and poor under the bus.

:cry:

This is what our nation has become via 'compassionate conservatives'?
It's aweful!

[gateley]

21. Many people are unaware of the situation many others face. I don't know

what will happen when that net widens and more and more are affected.

Thank you for your story H20 Man -- Please let your friend's son know he and his dad are in our hearts. :grouphug:

[rosesaylavee]

26. Sincere sympathy on your loss.

I am sure you are great comfort to the man's son. And soup costing too much??! how kind of your wife to help her. I have noticed that the less we are connected to each other, the more difficult it becomes. And when we do connect and kindnesses are shared, we overcome incredible obstacles. I think we will be relearning and reviewing this lesson in the year(s) to come with the economy the way it is.

[DCKit]

29. Jeebus, three weeks into the New Year and this is the kind of crap you've come up against already?

Hell of a wake up call for those of us still oblivious to what's really going on in Amurika.

Sorry for your loss and the sadness, but HUGE kudos to your wife for providing what may have been that elderly lady's only food for a couple of days. At least the poor thing will be able to think clearly while contemplating plans on how to stay warm, housed and fed for the rest of the winter.

If nothing else, your OP shows how we could each do a lot of good with only a little effort and/or expense.

[ConsAreLiars]

30. Your friend was murdered as surely as the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, for the same

reasons and by the same system and the same people who serve that system for reasons of greed, cowardice, and personal power. None of the three candidates will slay that monster, but any of them might hobble it a bit and keep it from devouring all humanity.

MLK and RFK and Mark Clark and Joe Hill and many, many more took on the monster directly and were assassinated. Many, many more. Since 1848 seems a bit far in our future, incrementalism, of whatever variant, is the next best option. The particular flavor is less important than the choice between more or less suffering. Your friend's tragic death and the massacre in Iraq reflect what "they" will offer as our future.

[Skittles]

31. it's awful

I recently ponied up some bucks for an elderly gentleman at the pharmacy - he was short on money for a pricey prescription, saying he would wait a week for his next SS check to come in. I'm beginning to hate my own country.

[King Coal]

44. Man, that pisses me off.

[democrank]

32. Thank you for this.

Bless John Edwards for speaking out about "Two Americas" and bless all those who try to help out.

[H2O Man]

33. "Two Americas"

There really are.

[KharmaTrain]

34. May We Not Live In Interesting Times...

H2Oman...I can very much relate to a world gone crazy. There isn't a day that goes by I don't hear of another person with a major health crisis, job loss or some other economic hardship. It's easy to joke today about how crappy things are...black humor to keep from going insane like what they did while waiting for toilet paper in the old Soviet Union.

I've long said the biggest qualification I am looking for is someone good at cleaning up messes since that's what will be the next President's major job. The problem isn't which problem to attack, but which first. Also, this is a person who needs to either cajole, bullshit or intimidate the needed votes to get meaningful legislation passed and making government function again. Yes, this person needs to be bipartisan...we've seen what one party rule does to this country...the mess requires a new attitude, a new start. I'm hoping whomever the Democratic nominee can at least offer that hope.

We need to take a look at where we were, where we are and where we hope to go. Take things into a bit of perspective. While this country shows preferences for Democrats, they haven't embraced all tenets of all the various factions within the party. If anything, the rise in popularity is a backlash against the Repugnicans. We still haven't earned the confidence of the majority of the electorate on our own yet...that's what this election is about.

Two years ago, Democrats stood on the abyss of political irrelevancy...we were thisclose to the GOOP having veto-proof majorities in both houses...imagine the horrors of that scenario. The past two years have been just putting some brakes to this runaway excutive (far too little too late for most of us)...now the goal is to restore balance...sanity...responsibility...confidence in our government. I, for one, would like to wake up and not feel embarassed or angry about my own government.

This November, whomever the Democratic nominee is...we come one step closer to the sunshine and away from the darkness.

Peace...

[rox63]

35. K&R for America's poor n/t

[Lochloosa]

36. JFK

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor,
it cannot save the few who are rich.
John F. Kennedy 1-20-1963

[bulldogge]

38. Makes me a bit nervous

It makes me a bit nervous so many people can relate to your stories.

I work full time and have a part time job. My pregnant wife works full time and has a part time job (she just quit her second part time gig). With that said we still have trouble heating our home, with all those jobs we are still near the poverty level but make $99 too much to qualify for HEAP. So I wrote to two local Assemblyman, more than once. One of them forwarded me to the other and the other never replied. What I find frustrating is that Fortune 500 companies are making RECORD BREAKING profits yet most of the people in my community can't afford heating fuel. Where is all the money going?

As for the medical community I am sure I am preaching to the choir when I bring up socialized medicine. Its a basic human right in an industrialized society to have health care regardless of your income level, not to mention insurance companies are among the record breaking profit group I was speaking of.

The elderly lady and her soup hit home as well. With my job I took a group of volunteer teenagers to help serve food at a harvest dinner at a local church. It really tears you apart to see these kind people so thankful for a hot meal and to realize that I'm only a paycheck away from sitting right next to them.

There are a lot of opinions on a so called recession, the folks in my neighborhood have been involved in economic crisis for some time and now the ripple in the pond has reached the shore. We seem to be able to find money to exploit and suppress people when we could be using it to improve the living standard in this country which would seem to have a positive spin on our international outlook.

[snappyturtle]

39. K&R Sorry for your loss. Words just don't say what I want them to in

regard to your loss and your wife's encounter.

I think we will make an enormous difference in the fall elections especially, if we can secure unity in the party that is at risk with petty disagreements.


Thanks for your sensible approach to the political candidate situation. Certainly is nice to see a positive message enwrapping all three candidates.

[ClayZ]

40. Thank You! K and R

We work at the Pike Place Market in Seattle. It is one of the oldest Open Air Market in the country. We celebrated our 100 year anniversary this year. Many of the vendors are local farmers and some are cheese makers, jam and jelly makers, etc. We set up our wares among them with other local artisans. The Fish Shops and Vegetable stands and many farmers and food vendors give samples of their products.

I have noticed the increase of people who seem to be coming for samples for sustenance. The dumpsters are set up for compost and many people are coming to see if their is usable food in the dumpsters.

We have a food bank at the market. But it is only one day a week.

In the depression, there were what is called HOBO signs. Hobos would mark fences leaving a symbol for others who may come that way. http://cyberhobo.com/signs/hobosigns.html
The market has a reputation for being number48, a good place to hang out!

I wish our whole country was a number 48.
We have a community medical clinic. So we also get a number 10.

On this page, http://www.angelfire.com/folk/famoustramp/signs.html your wife is the first symbol!

[H2O Man]

41. The "hobo mark"

Even before the Great Depression, the hobo mark was used. The "tramps" rode the rails, and they had their own system of symbols. My father's family lived in Nutley, NJ, and one great aunt was familiar with many of the men. She knew them when they came around, often on a seasonal time-table. She would sew their clothes and provide meals. They were on a first name basis with my family.

When it was the winter season, she often gave them the new, warm clothes of the male members of the extended family on Hillside Ave. When some of the young men complained, Aunt Mary told them how she remembered that Jesus often would appear dressed as a tramp in Ireland, and that they should treat every hobo with the dignity and respect they would if they knew he was Jesus.

I'm confident Aunt Mary would approve of the Pike Place Market.

[King Coal]

42. Thanks for the post but I respectfully think you have missed a valid point.

And that is that McCain can beat Obama of Hillary, but not Edwards. Therefore, I don't think we should take a chance and I adamently oppose Clinton and Obama. It is hard to portray that point in a constructive manner.

[H2O Man]

43. I think it is

important to discuss each of the potential match-ups. And I certainly respect that other people will have different opinions than I will. I think any of the three can defeat McCain, but I may be in the minority on DU on that one!

While I do not want to make this a GD-Primary thread, I would think it would be interesting to consider McCain's VP options. He might pick someone different if he were opposing each democrat.

[King Coal]

45. Well, I'll tell you what happened to me the other day.

We were shopping and in the parking lot we were approached by a lady who said she and her husband's car had broken down and they were stranded without money. I didn't know if they wanted to buy booze or what so I suggested that they contact the police to see if they had an organization that could help them. They already had and were told that the only place that could help was a home for battered women, and they didn't qualify. I had no choice but to give them money. Why doesn't this country have provisions for people who are down on their luck? How much money would it cost compared to what is lining rich pockets? It makes me mad. (So I don't want to take a chance on a candidate who may lose.

[Garbo 2004]

46. K&R. Thank you for your post & condolences on the loss of your friend.

My parents lived through the Great Depression. They told me stories of the bread and soup lines, the "Hoovervilles." And how they were lucky to have a job as young adults: my mom worked in sweatshops to help support herself and her parents; my dad was in the Civilian Conservation Corps. They were of course FDR Dems. They never forgot. And I think they never lost the fear that it could happen again.

I'm jaded about politicians. I'm not in love with any of them. Some people here gripe about Edwards, tired of his stories, his seeming earnestness and think he should "do the right thing" and leave the race. Perhaps it's also a bit of a drag, this repetitive talk of poverty and a moral challenge. But I think I've seen some of the message increasingly incorporated into the campaigns of Obama and Clinton. IMO it's a message that needs to be heard and acted upon. So I think perhaps Edwards serves a purpose. Will the message have an influence on the eventual party platform and nominee? I hope so.

I'm no Pollyanna when it comes to politicians and politics. But to paraphrase Arthur Miller, a terrible thing is happening to our country and attention must be paid.