FISA Fight: Dems didn't cave!

[kpete]

FISA Fight: Dems didn't cave!
by mcjoan
Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 07:03:25 PM PST

The Senate leadership has reached agreement with Republicans on how to proceed with the surveillance bill, and they held tough. According to leadership sources, these key Democratic amendments will get a simple majority vote:

*Striking Immunity (Feingold/Dodd): Strips the provision providing for telco amnesty from the current bill.

*Sequestration (Feingold): Prohibits the use of illegally obtained information.

*Bulk collection (Feingold): Requires the government to certify to the FISA Court that it is collecting communications of targets for whom there is a foreign intelligence interest.

*Reverse targeting (Feingold): Prohibits warrantless reverse targeting by requiring a FISA Court order for surveillance of a foreign person where the "significant purpose" of the collection is to target a U.S. person located in the United States.

*Substitution (Whitehouse-Specter): Substitutes the government for telcos being sued for their participation in the warrantless wiretapping program, but only if the company is first determined by the FISA Court to have cooperated with the Bush Administration reasonably and in good faith.

The amendments that would require a 60 vote majority are:

*Minimization (Whitehouse-Rockefeller-Leahy-Schumer): Minimization is the process of weeding out data obtained about U.S. persons and destroying it. This amendment would grant the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court the discretionary authority to not only approve minimization rules but to review their implementation.

*Sunset Provision (Cardin): Shortens the sunset of the FISA Amendments bill from six years to four years.

more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/31/21584/9083/171/447319

[fenriswolf]

1. woo hoo

the fight against fascism in america has won a battle.

[wtmusic]

2. Sounds like immunity is in.

Whatever.

[TheMadMonk]

3. Until the signing statement. nt.

[wtmusic]

4. Won't be necessary.

Sounds like an up-and-down vote will give immunity to the telcos. I may be wrong.

[knight_of_the_star]

9. According to the post they won't get immunity

The post says the Feingold amendment, likely to pass, will STRIP the immunities provision.

[wtmusic]

12. The Feingold amendment will fail

because Repubs will filibuster and there aren't 40 who will stand with Dodd.

I knew this was going to happen.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2805119&mesg_id=2805176

[redqueen]

16. Ever get the feeling this is all just a charade...

intended to convince us there are checks and balances?

[wtmusic]

20. If so, they're doing a lousy job

The telecom lobby has bought them all off, one way or another.

I feel ill.

[mrcheerful]

6. Hey you stole my thunder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lonestarnot]

5. yeah!

[OffWithTheirHeads]

7. Really sad when the headline "Dems didn't cave"

is considered a victory. Just sayin.

[knight_of_the_star]

10. Victory is still victory

With how things have been gotta take what you can get.

[Eric J in MN]

8. Substitution=retroactive immunity=caving

At least some phone companies won't have to pay damages under the "substitution" of the gov't as the defendant. Maybe all the phone companies will get away with violating our privacy under "substitution."

The phone companies won't have a deterrent against violating our privacy, again.

[knight_of_the_star]

11. Not necessarily

In fact not even close, how does having the gov't stand in for the telecoms give them immunity from previous crimes? If the plaintiffs don't back off then it doesn't matter, not to mention while they can't be sued for this particular instance a successful suit against the government would give the plaintiffs even more to go with in a subsequent suit against the telecoms.

[Eric J in MN]

21. If the government is substituted, then the phone companies don't pay..,

...and they aren't deterred from cooperating with future illegal activity.

Regarding a "subsequent suit," the FISA court could relieve the phone companies of paying damages there, too.

[DemGa]

13. Hooray! the Dems didn't cave!

Okay, I'm skeptical until the final word comes down. Color me Charlie Brown with the football.

[redqueen]

14. kpete started a new thread today...

looks like this one might have been overly optimistic

[kpete]

15. sad update here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2805119&mesg_id=2805119

[Pavulon]

17. All Bullshit. They break the rules all the time

the only concern is that operational capability never sees the light of day in court. That is the concern.

The telecoms waste more a month on corp lunch than the liability.

As long as us citizens are not involved the rules do not apply. The use of the collection is to find and kill people. Like the AQ guy this week.

[Marr]

18. That substitution clause is essentially caving.

It means the telecoms won't pay damages. Instead, WE will pay the damages.

And after reading that update, it looks like what everyone expected is indeed happening. Reid is going out of his way to sabotage his own stated position. Slimy piece of shit.

[Eric J in MN]

22. I agree. NT

NT

[malaise]

19. We'll see come Monday

I'm hoping.