I must have missed something.. What is "an entry-level journeyman drafter"?

[SoCalDem]

Some "expert" uttered this tripe on "Your $$$$" on CNN..

The guy was downright CHEERY when he touted this marvelous opportunity in the "job sector"... just after they discussed all the recent job losses..

Apparently at some community colleges ( :eyes: ) you can take a TWO YEAR class to re-train as an entry-level journeyman drafter..
(entry-level is NOT "journeyman"..anyone who's ever been in a union knows that..not that these new jobs are even union)

What an opportunity... shazaaaam..

You lose an $18-25 hr job, go to community college for TWO YEARS, learn auto-CAD and emerge two years later, fully prepared to accept a $9-10 hr entry-level job...

These "experts" have sawdust for brains..

Things they NEVER address:

How does a family pay the rent/mortgage while Daddy's back in school?

Where does an unemployed Dad get the MONEY to GO to school?

Why SHOULD a 35 yr old head of household NEED to get "re-trained" every few years...in the RICHEST country on earth? :eyes:

The guy was so excited about all the job opportunities that WERE available:

Hospitality INDUSTRY..translation waiter/waitress/hotel room cleaners

Health care...translation nurse's aide/floor mopper/ bed changer


These "experts" do not live in the real world

[NNN0LHI]

1. Dude prolly meant journeyman draftsman

Thats my guess.

Don

[SoCalDem]

3. But.. journeyman level is earned AFTER you GET the job..

Enrty level is where you start..journeyman is where to end up :)

[mcscajun]

2. No, these "experts" certainly do not live in the real world.

Retraining is fine if it gets you a lateral or better job, but try finding those when you've already got a BS or better, and have been earning a high-five figure (or better) salary.

Retraining at a community college isn't really going to do all that much for you.

And you nailed it with this: "Why SHOULD a 35 yr old head of household NEED to get "re-trained" every few years...in the RICHEST country on earth?"

Damned right! I'm 56 and involuntarily "early-retired" for the last four years now, at a third of my former salary; it's just Barely sufficient to keep my head above water (if I keep on tightening and RE-tightening my belt, and furiously treading that water) until I'm able to start early on draining my IRA.

If I could afford it, I'd throw stuff at the TV whenever those "experts" start yakkin' away about "retraining"; as it is, I just change the channel. It's the frugal thing to do. :)

[SoCalDem]

5. And the part no one ever addresses is THIS

at 56, you are still NINE YEARS away from medicare eligibility, and a few more years away from Social security, so the money you have to withdraw from your IRA (& any other savings) is money that you put away to SUPPLEMENT SS...not to LIVE ON until SS kicks in..

It's the double whammy..

At the most vulnerable time in our lives we lose the ability to accelerate our earnings, as it used to be. A person's 50's used to be the "pour it on" time in our careers.. Usually by then they kids were grown & gone, the parents had passed away, and people our ages were finally in upper management phases of our careers. The last 15 years of careers were the most productive , earnings-wise.. and now they are the years of "involuntary early-retirement"..with no pensions, no health insurance, elderly parents to help, and still-dependent grown children who cannot afford to move out..

[conflictgirl]

4. It's not that easy to get those jobs either

I live in MI where a lot of people still do those types of jobs. Journeyman status is what you get after learning the trade but you don't start out there as soon as you finish the school program. My husband lost his job in Feb 06 and was out of work until December - he wasn't in manufacturing but nonetheless had to take a 50% wage reduction once he finally got a job and that was with no benefits. One of the things he looked into was going into those 2 year programs. Long and short of it is that after you complete the training you have to find someone willing to take you on as an apprentice, and not a lot of places are willing to do that in a depressed economy. They would rather get somebody who already has some experience than have to train them. These things are not going to be a good substitute for real jobs!

[SoCalDem]

6. and even if there are some jobs, they are more liekly to take

a younger person than an older one who;s likely to bolt if his "old job" calls him back.. Companies like fresh young people who can be "molded" easier..

[livetohike]

7. That was the guy from Manpower and

they specialize in filling low level minimum wage jobs.

I saw all of this B.S. before back in 1983 when the steel industry declined in western PA. Just where do tens of thousands of workers in one city go to get a new job when all they knew was steel making? The answer then was to train in health care and apparently that is the answer now :eyes:

[dysfunctional press]

8. problem is- they have autocad & computers in india and asia too...

the workers are cheaper, and since they work when it's night here, the u.s. boss can come in to work in the morning and find the work/revisions assigned at the end of the previous day done, and on his desktop.

[radfringe]

9. to accept a $9-10 hr entry-level job...

that's about right... about $10/hr to start but it also depends on what company you go to work for and where it's located

some entry level CAD jobs with larger companies in metro areas pay more

ennywhoo - I was getting close to $9/hr working for a non-profit. the poppy bush recession ended up with funding cuts and there went my job

soooo, I went back to school for CAD drafting. two years later, I landed my first CAD job at $10/hr. Worked there 4 years, got my pay up to $14/hr then moved to MA to PA, where I had landed a job for $16/hr - however my new employer told me there was a misunderstanding and it only paid $10/hr.

I was stuck, he had me by the shorthairs - stayed there for a year, found another job for $10/hr and got my pay up to $14/hr by the time I was laid off nine years later. Not great, but the company was real cheap...but that's another story

ennywhoo - now I'm working at the $18/hr rate, with a review coming up in another month, hopefully good review with a raise

[izquierdista]

10. Easy to figure out

They want journeyman level of knowledge and experience; they will pay entry-level wages.

Anyone over 40 would has applied for a job lately could tell you that.

[earth mom]

11. The majority of politicians & ALL the talking heads are completely OUT OF TOUCH

with how the rest of us live.

Can you say "ELITE"?

And people around here wonder why those who supported Gore, Kucinich or Edwards aren't flocking to elite candidates Hillary or Obama! :eyes:

[JosephSchmo]

12. Completely unscientific research

I live near san fran ... I went on craiglist ... and typed in "CAD" on the job search. this is at 12:50 pm so if you repeat your results may vary.

So in order ...

1. JUNIOR OR SENIOR ARCHITECT Salary range: $45k-90k annual base pay, depending on experience and qualifications

2. PROJECT MANAGER NEEDED!!!!! Benefits: Great Medical, Dental and Health Coverage, 401k, Vacation, Training Programs, Workshops, and more.

3. Solar and Energy Efficiency Program Assistant
The position offers a small living allowance of $949/month, very basic health coverage, and your choice of a $4725 educational award or $1200 bonus stipend

4.AV/Electronics Engineer
Compensation/Benefits: Salary is commensurate with experience.

5. Software Sales Superstar
Compensation: TBD: Competitive Base Plus Commission

6. Senior Designer
We offer a competitive salary and great benefit package

7. Senior Packaging Designer
Doesn't say about compensation

8. skipped this because it doesn't related to auto CAD

9.CAD Manager/drafter/designer
RPR Architects offers excellent salary, benefits and a suppor tive work environment that includes oppor tunities for continuing education.

10. IT Support (entry level)
Doesn't say about compensation.


I think 10 is enough for this ... fortunately, I see your statement is not very well supported ... at least in the bay area.

[SoCalDem]

13. My son LIVES up there, & I KNOW what it costs to live there

Try again :)

[JosephSchmo]

17. Why should I try again?

I imagine results would be similar if I tried again.

This is not a highly scientific experiment just a glance at Craigslist, which is somewhat representative of the real world.

[Richard Steele]

18. What do any of those listings have to do with the OP?

Very little. Sorry, but you haven't even shown that they RELATE
to the premise, let alone disproved it.

[JosephSchmo]

21. About our hypothetical person

He's a 35 yr old experianced draftsman who can use Auto CAD and is now entering the job market.

I used craigslist to see what the job market for this hypothetical person would look like, just the first 10 entries. If that sample is at all normal then it appears our hypothetical draftsman would not have to take a 10$/hr wage but could get more.

[SoCalDem]

24. He was NOT an "experianced" draftsman..

he had experiEnce in another job that had paid him a much higher salary (an unspecified job)..He had to be RE-trained in a 2-yr program at community college (probably in auto-CAD), which would have rendered him a newbie, at 35, entering a NEW job altogether :)

[SoCalDem]

23. What I meant was that the "low level" jobs you posted did not contain salary information

and the others had specifications that a two year community college "degree" would not meet.

To become an architect is a much longer enterprise..

And my son lives in Concord, so i know that in a high cost area, even the mundane jobs pay more to start than in other places because the cost of living is so high.


You may want to look upthread and revbiew the actual experiences of others, who have lived this experience.. Their wages were much more in line with the "low-wage" , than with the offers on Craig's list
:)

[JosephSchmo]

26. I found the salary information

the average in San Fran is around 43K.

Earning 10/hr at 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year will get just over 20K.

[Richard Steele]

22. If you don't know the difference between a Draftsman and a Senior Architect...

...then you're really not equipped to contribute
to this particular conversation.

If you think $949/month is enough to live in that area,
then you're really not equipped to contribute to this
particular conversation.

None of the other listings you provided mention any specific salary,
and therefore do not contribute to this particular conversation.

[JosephSchmo]

25. just doing my homework.

Anyways, I'll do you a favor and help you do some research.

From the New York Times:

The average salary for a CAD drafter is around 43K.
For a Senior CAD drafter it's around 53K.

This is around San Fran.

If you want to check it out yourself, and you should, it's good to think for yourself, go here. http://nytimeshr.salary.com/

I typed in "CAD" and location was San Francisco.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

14. That's John Wayne McCrazy's solution to use community colleges to train people for jobs that either

don't exist or don't pay a living wage. I also doubt that his alleged scheme will pay for living expenses while training or guaranteed placement if you successfully complete the "training." Simple solution from a simple mind for far more complex problem than he will ever spend the time to comprehend and develop some plausible solutions for more fun to bomb Iran.

[XOKCowboy]

15. An Oxymoron?

Or possibly those pundits are the morons.

[knitter4democracy]

16. And how much does that training cost?

How long would it take to pay it off? To get the two years' training to be a billing specialist, you're looking at $10K. For a low-paying job. How long would it take to pay those loans off? So, you work while you're getting the training so you can eat, which makes getting the grades that much harder, and then, when you're done, you spend years paying back the loans--if you find a job.

Honestly, all those economist-types make me want to puke. I honestly think they want to keep making everything sound great so the people don't panic and put a run on the banks.

[Wizard777]

19. They might be trying to say that with previous experience they can skip apprentice

and become a journeyman.

[Quantess]

20. Well, our administration is working hard to make us a third world country.

We're getting close to Argentina.

[onethatcares]

27. face it, we live in a service economy, and if

you ever have a bull "service" your cow, you'll understand what that means.