Another shopping mall shooting-four dead

[malaise]

Chicago this time.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN0244670020080202
<snip>
TINLEY PARK, Illinois (Reuters) - Several people were shot and killed inside a store at a suburban Chicago shopping center on Saturday, police said, and media reports said four were dead and another wounded.

Police in Tinley Park, southwest of Chicago, said they found "multiple victims who had been shot and killed" inside a Lane Bryant women's clothing store at the Brookside Marketplace shopping center when they responded to an emergency call at 10:44 a.m.

One report said the shootings may have happened in the course of a robbery.

While police declined to say how many were killed, local media reports said four people were found dead and another wounded inside the store.
------------------

[DesertFlower]

1. very sad. nt

[malaise]

2. Nowhere is safe

Frightening

[Pavulon]

7. I have never heard of a mass shooting at a firing range

just saying...

[Paladin]

9. And If The Public Was Armed As Heavily As You Want.....

...just what sort of nation would we have? Have you ever given half a thought to that? Or are you one of those gun militants who believes in the monumentally stupid notion that "an armed society is a polite society"?

Just saying....

[AZ Criminal JD]

14. What sort of nation? A safe nation.

Just saying .....

[Paladin]

29. Are You Under The Impression.....

....that this nation has been made safer by the huge number of guns, from sea to shining sea? Check your morning paper to see how well that notion is playing in the real world. And if we're all hunkered down with our own arsenals, waiting, even praying for the Bad Guys to come around---the kind of scenario that the gun militants seem to want---what the hell kind of country will that be? I want something better for my kids than one gigantic armed camp.....

[AZ Criminal JD]

33. I'm not under any impression ....

Every study that has ever been done has shown states which have concealed carry laws have lower personal crime rates than gun control states. As a progressive I believe in individual rights. Try reading the Constitution some time. It is an interesting document.

[Paladin]

40. I've Studied The Constitution, Thanks Very Much

And if open-ended gun availability is a progressive idea, tell Ann Coulter, Dick Cheney, Michelle Malkin, Ted Nugent, George W. Bush, Wayne LaPierre, and the rest of the right-wing douchesacks to walk away from the position. Then we can talk about what a progressive concept it is.

(Looking forward to the standard "Even a stopped clock is right twice a day" non-response).

[AZ Criminal JD]

41. LOL . You had the total non-response

All those people probably use toilet paper. Does that mean we shouldn't? Goofy. With intellectual giants like you opposing it, I've never worried too much the 2nd amendment will be removed from the Constitution.

[Paladin]

55. Oh, That's Good

Toilet paper? That's every bit as compelling as the stopped clock concept. Not exactly intellectual giant stuff, but congrats anyway. Ann Coulter could probably use that, why not send it to her?

And I'm not worried about the 2nd Amendment being removed, nor do I advocate such a thing. Hope that gives you a headache....

[AZ Criminal JD]

57. No of course you don't advocate removing the 2nd amendment

You just want to remove its protections and turn it into another scrap of ancient paper that has no meaning.

[Paladin]

58. Gracious, The Powers You Grant To Me

Just a little reality check, here: I'm not a Supreme Court justice, I'm a disembodied voice on an electronic chat room, so there's not much I can do to shred the Constitution. Hope that helps you out.

As far as the 2nd goes, I'll settle for the Supreme Court giving us at long last a definitive, four-corners interpretation of what the hell it means in this day and time---as opposed to the endless, wishful-thinking spews of guncentrics here at DU and elsewhere. I think there's every chance that the SU will side with the gun crowd in its decision on the current case, but that will be the right wing's doing (led by Fat Tony Scalia and his surly hand puppet, Clarence Thomas). But then, there's nothing at all strange about the right wing carrying water for the Guns Are Life crowd, now is there?

[AZ Criminal JD]

59. I was referring to the royal 'you' but of couse you know that

If the Supreme Court sides with individual rights in the DC gun case it won't be because of Scalia, etc. It will be because of liberal Constitutional scholars such as Lawrence Tribe and Allan Dershowitz and the many articles they have written for legal journals on the subject. They have come to the conclusion that the Second Amendment grants an individual right, just as the First, Third, Fourth, Fifth, and the rest of the Bill of Rights do.

[Paladin]

63. Wow! You've Got Dershowitz On Your Side?

That guy's a marvel---imagine his finding the time to pimp for guns, considering all the efforts he expends on advocating governmental torture. You must be so proud.

Neither Tribe nor Deshowitz sit on the court, and they represent minority thinking on the 2nd. In the end, if there's an NRA-friendly ruling, it'll be delivered by Fat Tony and Clarence. And you'll be overjoyed.....

[AZ Criminal JD]

64. Tribe and Dershowitz represent "minority" thinking?

Why? Because you decree it? Do you even know who Lawrence Tribe is? If you read law journals you will find they represent the majority thinking of what has been written about the subject in the last 10 to 20 years. That is exactly why this case has gotten to the Supreme Court now. The DC ban and others like it have been around for a long time. This case is moving through the judicial system now because some people in the judicial system have changed their minds. Since you made the obligatory snide remark about the NRA, the American Bar Association had an article three or four months ago in their journal about how the NRA did not want to be involved in this case at all and in fact weren't until recently. They wanted the plaintiffs to settle or drop the case long ago because they were afraid of an adverse ruling. Despite what you say about Scalia I am more confident of Beyer's vote than Scalia's. Scalia has made some dismissive remarks about the 2nd amendment in past writings and may side with you. Hope your head doesn't explode if that happens.

[Skittles]

30. LOL

:rofl:

[AZ Criminal JD]

34. I wonder what candidate supports your point of view

Interesting to see your response.

[Ishoutandscream2]

25. Always reminds me of Archie Bunker making a rebuttal

on TV against gun control. He said that to stop airplane hijackings, all passengers should be armed.

[AZ Criminal JD]

42. Turns out he was right.

The government instituted the air Marshal's program where Marshals appearing to be ordinary passengers fly on various flights. The hijackings stopped. That is the whole concept of concealed carry. It works. Thanks for making the argument.

[Ishoutandscream2]

43. I wasn't making one - but Archie said ALL passengers

Have you been armed on an airliner? Next time, it may help to read the entire post.

[AZ Criminal JD]

44. Sorry I didn't use the exact quote of a TV character to make my point

I have never been armed on a commercial airliner, just military flights. Hijacking did stop when the hijackers didn't know if the guy sitting next to them was armed or not. That's my point and that is why concealed carry works as a means to reduce violent personal crime.

[blondeatlast]

50. I'll take my chances and not worry that my neighbors are perpetually out to get me.

FWIW, I'm well aware that some of my neighbors are armed.

[AZ Criminal JD]

56. Most people don't worry about their neighbors

I doubt that whomever shot those women in the clothing store was a neighbor of any of them.

[DBoon]

10. I'm sure the mall owner regrets not having one now

nt

[Xenotime]

46. Just because you "never heard" it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

This country seems to be more and more gun happy when the rest of the world is moving away from them.

[PeaceNikki]

12. And nowhere is THAT dangerous. These stories make the news because they're rare.

[Quantess]

3. Inside a Lane Bryant store.

How very odd.

[knitter4democracy]

27. That made me pause, too.

Only women shop there, and only bigger women. Personally, I love that store. Did he pick it randomly, or did he go there on purpose?

[AZBlue]

28. They say it was a robbery but how much cash would a LB store really have??

I would think any clothing store would be low on a list of places to rob. I wonder if there's not more to this story than a robbery.

My heart goes out to the victims and their friends and family.

[knitter4democracy]

31. He fled, and they still haven't found him.

It doesn't sound like a robbery, really. There were other places in the strip mall that would've had more money, from the sound of it.

Can you imaging the poor cop making those calls? *shudder*

[AZBlue]

32. No, I can't.

It must be the hardest job in the world.

[blondeatlast]

52. No kidding. You'd have to guess there's fast food stores nearby

and they'd have far more cash.

A Lane Bryant? Very, very add. My take on a Lane Bryant customer is middle class, likely has a propietary charge card, very unlikely to pay with cash in general.

The robbery angle makes no sense at all at this point.

[Iktomiwicasa]

61. Well....

....most armed robbers are not the sharpest knives in the drawer to begin with.

[blondeatlast]

51. I would think there would be precious little cash at a store like that, especially

this early on an off-weekend.

Very strange--there has to be more to this.

[AZBlue]

62. Yeah - first thing in the morning?

When they probably have $50 in the registers?? Very odd.

[sellitman]

4. Shopping Malls don't kill people.

Guns do.

[villager]

5. But, but, but... what about all the mass mall Ninja star-ings? Or the mass school garrotings?

I will keep whining if you keep singling out guns as being a critical element of gun-based crimes!

[Ezlivin]

6. Could there ever be such a string of violent incidents at malls as to curtail shopping?

How many violent incidents would have to occur before shoppers started abandoning malls or other large shopping areas?

There had been conjecture after 9/11 that if the government had not immediately stepped in to save the airline industry, people would have avoided flying and wrecked it economically.

[leftofthedial]

8. we need more guns!!!

if the mannequins were armed with automatic weapons--WHICH IS THEIR CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHT!!!--maybe those scum would think twice about starting funplay, er, gunplay.

[DBoon]

11. We need fewer malls

if there were no malls, there would be no mall shootings

problem solved

[Xenotime]

47. Fewer schools = fewer shooting too.

[Pavulon]

13. Ever heard of a mass shooting at a Firing Range?

just sayin..

[leftofthedial]

15. see!!

proves my point.

how come there are never mass shootings at Target? Seems odd, doesn't it?

[Pavulon]

16. Pretty sure the person obtained it illegally..

basically impossible to own a handgun in chicago. But heroin is illegal too.

[leftofthedial]

18. how did the person they obtained it from obtain it?

Almost guaranteed it used to belong to some nut who bought it either for "protection" or as an ejaculation substitute.


oops! did I say that?

[Pavulon]

19. Illegally?

Just like people obtain heroin and cocaine...Those things are banned, but you could pick the phone up and find some with no problem.

That ban went so well. Like prohibition..That dried booze right up.

Murder is already illegal.

[krispos42]

24. Ah, shiny metal penis jokes already...

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be in the corner with a copy of "Guns & Ammo", polishing my Mannlicher...

[leftofthedial]

35. Man licker!

:rofl:

[blondeatlast]

54. "Polishing your Mannlicher..." Oh. My. Chosen Spiritual Divinity.

I had to Google it--it's really called that! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[krispos42]

60. those crazy Germans... :-)

[blondeatlast]

53. Because the gunnies get confused and keep shooting at the logo... nt

[Missy Vixen]

21. There have been shootings at gun ranges before

It's like clockwork: Something like this happens, and ten seconds later, the gungeon empties out. It's time for damage control.

Julie

[Pavulon]

22. Actually check the top LBN thread..

my first post #2 or #3 "thought goes out to family" next post snarky political gun comments. Chicago has a gun ban. It does not work.

300 people died today in car "accidents". Meaning someone did something stupid and or illegal and killed others.

[Ishoutandscream2]

26. I know that this is supposed to be a serious thread

but you made me laugh out loud.

[Irreverend IX]

17. Chicago has some of the most stringent gun laws in the country...

And if this was a robbery, odds are 99-1 the shooter had a prior criminal record and was forbidden from owning guns legally. Funny how the most gun-restrictive places in the country are also the most violent.

[sellitman]

20. Gee another mass Mall stabbing.

Now there is a headline you never see.

Wonder why?

[Swamp Rat]

23. FYI: West Edmonton Mall, the largest shopping mall in North America, has an indoor shooting range.

Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

http://www.shootingcentre.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Edmonton_Mall

[mvccd1000]

36. The part that jumped out at me...

... at least in the story I read about it, was that police received a 911 call from someone already hiding in the back room.

If this was just a robbery, the anti-gun mantra of "my property isn't worth someone's life" didn't hold up very well here. The robber apparently got the property and still decided to take the lives, even though 911 had been called.

- 911 didn't help in this situation.
- Giving up the property didn't help in this situation.
- The state of Illinois decided the citizens had no right to protect themselves in this situation.

The result was a tragedy. It illustrates once again that the gun-grabbers' phrases like "That's why we have police," or "Just give up your money; it's not worth shooting someone" are hollow claims, at best.

IF you ever have the misfortune to be caught in a situation like this, who will protect you?

[malaise]

38. Bingo

Men with guns kill at will.

[Dawggie]

45. Good logic. Now we can either get rid of men or guns by what you post.

I say guns. :)

[mvccd1000]

66. That's the problem; we can't realistically get rid of either.

With those options off the table, what's the next best thing? Continue to keep law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves?

[genie_weenie]

37. This is the fault of the Tinley Park Cops!!!

[opihimoimoi]

39. A Nation full of loonies...at least 5% or more...and we got guns?

We reap what we allow...

[karlrschneider]

48. Impossible. Guns aren't allowed in that mall.

:eyes:

[benEzra]

49. This happened in an area with one of the lowest rates of lawful gun ownership in the nation...

it's not the rate of LAWFUL ownership that is the problem, but rather criminal possession and use. Focus on the latter instead of trying to harass lawful and responsible owners, please...

[Jed Dilligan]

65. Keep your eyes peeled, look all around you

check out every single person around you. If someone doesn't fit or gives off a vibe, keep an eye on them. Never get caught slipping. It's not about who's got the guns; it's about who knows what's happening.

It's a horrible tragedy, but these are everyday rules in a lot of America. The news here? It's happening in a suburb that's 93% white with a median family income of $71K.